palmistry and astrology
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Peace. If the future is pre-determined how can god punish people? What about free-will and responsibility? I believe palmistry,astrology etc.. only show a possibility or a snap-shot of a future event,not a pre-determined definite,complete picture. I feel sad for the girl you mentioned in the story.
Peace. -
Peace claurianta
you said that what the palm-reader told you for the futur didn't come true. Well may be it wont, but i had a similar experience and for me it all was just BS...(Not that i don't believe in mektoub, but out of 100 "businessmediums" out there how many have a real gift and do it in order to help people ?)
One of my best friends here is a medium, she did a session about six years ago with me. About the past she was right, even things she didn't know about, about future nothing of what she said happend - until three years later. The way it all fell into place was really amazing!
elke
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Peace. If the future is pre-determined how can god punish people? What about free-will and responsibility? I believe palmistry,astrology etc.. only show a possibility or a snap-shot of a future event,not a pre-determined definite,complete picture. I feel sad for the girl you mentioned in the story.
Peace.Salam Enquirer,
I don't/can't/won't understand that the Almighty God can't predict the future. I just don't want to believe that, 'cause in my opinion God is so powerfull that he can do, see and hear anything he wants. He has total control of everything, so why not the future?
In the OT (Old Testament), the Exodus verse to be exact, God is telling Moses to go to the Pharaoh and speak to him about the God of the worlds. Now I know that the Bible is not accurate and I don't know what the Quran says about this verse, but I do know that in the Exodus verse God already predicts that the Pharaoh won't believe Moses. To me that means that God can predict the future... ?
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well... i'm not so sure we are capable of comprehending time inside out. We are stuck in time, and i don't think we are able to view it from any other angle than from within the stream of time.
You can say that the future can't be changed. But maybe the future can be changed.. but this in turn is written in the future, so it remains true that it can't be changed. Confused? shock Maybe the very changing of the future is fixed in the future. It depends on what the future is. When is the future? There can be so many futures! Its a continuum.
In the case of the girl who had a baby, and had an abortion and broke up with her boyfriend.... well... maybe it COULD have been changed... but it was just that SHE wasn't able to change it... that's why the cards said the same thing. You never know! Or maybe the cards really saw what had to happen... the final results of the girls future decisions, no matter the path reaching there.
In a sense.. if we see time as a line that has a start and an end... and GOD knows the end... then there is a certain definite end... which cant be changed becasue we cant travel back and forth in time.
Its like a video tape... even if we have free will as we go along... GOD would know our future.. i.e. our future is predetermined... NOT because God decided the future without asking us.. but simply becasue God is OUTSIDE time. GOD already knows all what we WILL choose and decide in the future. I think we shape our future with free will... but all our actions of the future till the end are know by GOD. It doesn't mean we cant steer and go as we wish. It just measn GOD is outside time. Actually, we can't imagine lack of time. Lack of time is not the same as never-ending time.Perhaps there are some ways in this life to peep into some parts or aspects of future. There is more to the world than what we can see. I know someone who sometimes get instant insights about future event of people... not exact events, but general ones. There is so much out there that we have no idea about.. and we cant reject it.... and shouldnt accept it without verifying it... atleast we can admit it MIGHT be true.
Hope I didn't confuse everyone totally.
Ulf D -
Salam Zulf,
In a sense.. if we see time as a line that has a start and an end... and GOD knows the end... then there is a certain definite end... which cant be changed becasue we cant travel back and forth in time.
Its like a video tape... even if we have free will as we go along... GOD would know our future.. i.e. our future is predetermined... NOT because God decided the future without asking us.. but simply becasue God is OUTSIDE time. GOD already knows all what we WILL choose and decide in the future. I think we shape our future with free will... but all our actions of the future till the end are know by GOD. It doesn't mean we cant steer and go as we wish. It just measn GOD is outside time. Actually, we can't imagine lack of time. Lack of time is not the same as never-ending time.Interesting line of thought. I fully understand what you mean. I also think we shape our future with free will, but I don't think that God doesn't know the outcome of our decisions. If God knows when our life ends, then I find it ridiculous to say that he can't predict the future.
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Peace heart and all. In the quran allah asks moses to tell phaoroh to worhip god or he will go to hell. What was the point in god telling moses to tell phaoroh to believe if god knew he would not believe?
The answer is within us all,if the conditions are right.
Peace all. -
Dear Heart
There is a phrase I read a while ago, it read "The best prophet is a false prophet." It is quite the phrase to think upon I found.
I think the nature of prediction is to alert you to the most probable outcome from the path you are currently on, like a detailed road sign. There is an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa has her future revealed to her, and it is a dire love story, she is then told to try and act suprised when this all happens. (it was more humerous than I described). The question I would wonder is what is being accomplished by alerting someone to a problem up ahead that cant be changed regardless of foreknowledge ?
I do feel that many events are out of our control but we always have control of our response, so the situations are not of importance, rather it is our response to a situation.
Also, a question out of curiousity is how abouts did you learn to read the tarot cards? Through people, book, etc... ? as I am interested to know more about the cards.
peace,
Khalil -
Peace khalil. thanks. Very insightful and wise post.
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Salam all,
What was the point in god telling moses to tell phaoroh to believe if god knew he would not believe?
Maybe because of free will? Because the Pharaoh could have changed his mind, but then again God would have foreseen that. I don't know. I'm confused about this subject. Something inside of me doesn't want to believe that God can't predict the future.
sigh
The question I would wonder is what is being accomplished by alerting someone to a problem up ahead that cant be changed regardless of foreknowledge ?
Maybe the future is fixed like Zulf stated? That makes me think about the word 'mektoub' (destiny). Does the Quran talk about that?
Also, a question out of curiousity is how abouts did you learn to read the tarot cards? Through people, book, etc... ? as I am interested to know more about the cards.
I've been raised up with the belief in the supernatural. So I was always interested in the occult. I read books, searched the internet and asked tarotcardreaders. I used to focus only on the madam Lenormand cards, all the other cards were to difficult for me to learn. First it was hard for me to concentrate, but it got easier when I knew the meaning of the cards.
What kind of tarotcards are you interested in Khalil?
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Peace Khalil
In occultism it is understood that the Tarot is to be studied on the basis of Tree of Life glyph. The Tarot is the key to the Tree applied to human life. It is considered one of the best methods of divination. The Trumps do have major correspondences on the Tree. There is a book by A. E. Waite called The Pictorial Key to the Tarot. There are different decks like the Waite, and Thoth deck for instance.
Joe
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Dear Heart
Maybe the future is fixed like Zulf stated?
From what Zulf has said I understand that God is not confined to time, with that I do agree but also feel that God is aswell a part of time, as God is one (singular) & nine (everything), so there is not nothing that isn't of the 'substance' that is The Most High-who is even in the lowest.
I do not think God knows our choices as they have not been enacted upon and therefore all that is knowledge in regards to our choices is the 'many' possible actions/outcomes, the action since it has never being acted upon does not 'exist'.
However, have you heared of Jane Roberts and the Seth Material? I am beggining to study this and there is a great deal of insight in there about parrallel lives and the concept of time.
I feel I will be able to share with you an understanding that may help as I study through this material, when I do I will be sure to share.
That makes me think about the word 'mektoub' (destiny). Does the Quran talk about that?
Sorry, of this I am unaware.
What kind of tarotcards are you interested in Khalil?
I don't yet know, I am going to check out the book Joe recccomended to learn more of the Tarots as I am not familiar with them in understanding.
Would the Madame Lemornand cards be a good starting point in your opinion?
In occultism it is understood that the Tarot is to be studied on the basis of Tree of Life glyph. The Tarot is the key to the Tree applied to human life. It is considered one of the best methods of divination. The Trumps do have major correspondences on the Tree. There is a book by A. E. Waite called The Pictorial Key to the Tarot. There are different decks like the Waite, and Thoth deck for instance.
Thank you Joe for the suggested material, as well as the Ghandi book in the past.
peace,
Khalil -
Salam Khalil,
However, have you heared of Jane Roberts and the Seth Material? I am beggining to study this and there is a great deal of insight in there about parrallel lives and the concept of time.
Nope, never heard of it.
I feel I will be able to share with you an understanding that may help as I study through this material, when I do I will be sure to share.
You do that.
Would the Madame Lemornand cards be a good starting point in your opinion?
They're much easier to learn. So why not.
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Peace be upon you Khalil,
The question I would wonder is what is being accomplished by alerting someone to a problem up ahead that cant be changed regardless of foreknowledge ?
I do feel that many events are out of our control but we always have control of our response, so the situations are not of importance, rather it is our response to a situation.
You just answered your own question. The reason for wanting to know what is coming is to prepare your RESPONSE to the situation, because everyone does not respond in the same manner, so remain at peace , others get emotional, stressed, and sick.
Also, a question out of curiousity is how abouts did you learn to read the tarot cards? Through people, book, etc... ? as I am interested to know more about the cards.
If you really want to deal with "cards" , I would refer you to the Metu Neter divination system. You can get the book Metu Neter to help you with understanding it, but these cards are very hard to get right now.
Another oracle is I ching, where you can use three coins.
I use both of them currently.
Divination is in the Bible and Koran for any who get scared at this type of discussion.
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Dear Heart
You do that.
In-deed I will.
They're much easier to learn. So why not.
Thank you for the tip.
Dear Idolfree
The question I would wonder is what is being accomplished by alerting someone to a problem up ahead that cant be changed regardless of foreknowledge ?
I do feel that many events are out of our control but we always have control of our response, so the situations are not of importance, rather it is our response to a situation.
You just answered your own question.
My question was based on the post before mine where the response as well was fixed, then below my question was my opinion. Thats why I answered my own question.
The reason for wanting to know what is coming is to prepare your RESPONSE to the situation, because everyone does not respond in the same manner, so remain at peace , others get emotional, stressed, and sick.
As well, if one realizes that certain foods are poisonous to their system then they have the oppurtunity to obstain from them and in doing so they may change the fatal outcome.
Also, a question out of curiousity is how abouts did you learn to read the tarot cards? Through people, book, etc... ? as I am interested to know more about the cards.
If you really want to deal with "cards" , I would refer you to the Metu Neter divination system. You can get the book Metu Neter to help you with understanding it, but these cards are very hard to get right now.
Another oracle is I ching, where you can use three coins.
I use both of them currently.
I will keep those in mind but I do not feel any 'attraction' to those two systems, no gut pull or inner-sense/drive like I do to what I am currently learning, however when the avenues expand I will return to this page and reconsider.
Divination is in the Bible and Koran for any who get scared at this type of discussion.
I came across it a few days ago in the New Testament where there are lots cast in dividing Jesus clothes after he is crucified and was wondering where I could mention this, and so I shall here.
As well, I recall that there is channeling in the Old Testament, where (I recall) a prohpet spoke to the spirit of a recently deceased through a oracle, do you know what verse this is? The name Isaah comes to mind.
peace,
Khalil