sex with the captives?

[Elke]

peace all

shamsul wrote
What is wrong is wrong either its 1000 years ago or now.

I understand ?right hand posses? as someone who is your trusted partner, where both has entrusted each other to support and also love each other. These people can be engaged by oath or like bf/gf..

One can claim his/her rights over another person ONLY when the other person have agreed to share his/her rights.

Slavery and captives are a whole different issue.

i completely second this

ahmed wrote
I guess "Ma Malakat Aymanikom" may be equal to the De facto relationships in the western world, where a man live with a woman as been married while they are not legally married, yet she still can take half his money and even all if she has plenty of kids

it is revolting that the westerners donlt see this in themselves

come on ahmed, why this reaction. most muslim see MMA as slaves, so why should westerners have a better understanding. AND, even though i consider myself a muslim, i'm still a westerner, and i have the above understanding. What's revolting ?

elke

[sawtooth]

Not at all. It is not to invoke confrontation. i am just a person who is honest about how I feel. I am simply disgusted that someone would have to ask if it is allright to KEEP and acptive and better yet if they can have sex with that captive? How, as a human, can you not see that as distgusting? Anywhere, anytime under any direction, it is simply WRONG! I don't see there being any possibility of a grey area here.

You have grossly misunderstood the issue because you want to misunderstand it. So there's not a darn thing anyone can do. Suit yourself with your disgusts and belligerence ..

I'm done with this topic.

When the word used is "captive" and it refers to "slavery" what is there to misunderstand? It's not my translation, and it is not my words. It is my belief that you just do NOT keep "captives" or "slaves". You think I WANT to believe poeple would do this?

[unknownuser]

what incredible jingoism !!

[agentxxx]

peace be upon you mz,

you wrote
Salaams Agent,

here you go

Nisaa = women ,some you can marry others you can?t.

Agreed.

mzZawwaj = women/men can marry .

My understanding is Zawwaj = women/men are already married to.

mzMa malakat aimanokum = women/men can marry, but they don?t have the same rights as a zawwaj.

Excuse me brother according to your definition, zawwaj are women/men can marry? There are millions of women we can marry but what rights do they have before a marriage contract?
If zawaaj = Ma malakat aimanokum, then why are they depicted as two different
Beings separated by an ?or? in 235 and 7030.

mzThey are always called Ma malakat aimanokum even if married as they don?t have the same rights as the Zawwaj who are the free women.

Then what about equality in Islam? ZAWWAJ can be a free women or an ex female slave; once you are married to any women she becomes a ZAWWAJ and in no way can be referred to as MMA .

425 says YOU SHALL OBTAIN PERMISSION FROM THEIR GUARDIANS BEFORE YOU MARRY THEM, and pay them their due dowry equitably.
as with marrying other free women]

2433- ..And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) GIVE THEM SUCH A DEED if ye know any good in them;?

425-?Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest?.

The slaves only qualified for a marriage if permitted by their masters Allah says that the masters should grant them their wish and once the wish was granted they were no more slaves but free women/people

The link;
mzIf you see the ayah tells us of the punishment is different to a free woman. So to differentiate they aren?t called Zawwaj.

425-.. Once they are freed through marriage, IF THEY COMMIT ADULTERY, THEIR PUNISHMENT SHALL BE HALF OF THAT FOR THE FREE WOMEN?

425-.. when they are taken in wedlock, IF THEY FALL INTO SHAME, THEIR PUNISHMENT IS HALF THAT FOR FREE WOMEN?

Now the suggested half punishment for them as compared to free women doesn?t meant that they in their present state are not free. The comparison is in reference to their original/previous status .
ref

425-THOSE AMONG YOU WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO MARRY FREE BELIEVING WOMEN, may marry believing slave women.

As for why their punishment is half as compared to free women.

2433- ?BUT FORCE NOT YOUR MAIDS TO PROSTITUTION when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. BUT IF ANYONE COMPELS THEM YET AFTER SUCH COMPULSION is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).

2433-?YOU SHALL NOT FORCE YOUR GIRLS TO COMMIT PROSTITUTION, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. IF ANYONE FORCES THEM, then GOD, SEEING THAT THEY ARE FORCED, is Forgiver, Merciful.

A female slave might have gone through some appalling phases in her life hence she may lack in the understanding of values like morality/virtue etc as compared to a free woman, so keeping her background in view, half punishment has been suggested.

If we ponder on 2433 there is another confusion? The verse say don?t force them into prostitution if they want to remain chaste. So..
Is it right to assume, that if they agreed then it was ok?
no punishment have been suggested even for those who would force them into prostitution? Although forgiveness for the one?s who are forced into it is assured.

If we ponder on verse 425 we see that marriage to a female slave is discouraged

425-?. MARRYING A SLAVE SHALL BE A LAST RESORT FOR THOSE UNABLE TO WAIT. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

so brother mz i am still ?

God bless you.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Br,

Zawwaj = women created to be your mates.
Ma malakat aimanokum = women who can be your mates aswell !

Ya ayyuha alnnasuittaqoo rabbakumu allathee khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatinwakhalaqa minha zawjaha wabaththa minhumarijalan katheeran wanisaan waittaqoo Allahaallathee tasaaloona bihi waal-arhamainna Allaha kana AAalaykum raqeeban
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.

1 .Zawwaj = women who could be /or are your wives.
2 .Ma malakat aimanokum = who could be /or are your wives.

Both 1. and 2. have different rights.

Allah says (in a few ayah's )

you may marry no 1. or you can marry of the no 2.

Then Allah says

you can go into no 1. or 2.

Arn't they simply being differentiated the second time as Allah differentiated them first aswell?And as their rights as you said are somewhat different.

Salaams.

[agentxxx]

Peace mz,

You wrote

Zawwaj = women created to be your mates.
Ma malakat aimanokum = women who can be your mates aswell !

Zawwaj = mate companion = pair = wife .

Ma malakat aimanokum = those whom thy right hand possesses slaves war captives concubines mistress etc .

Only believers among them can be your mates or life partner , but after marriage they can?t be referred to as MMA They become wives.

3350-O Prophet! Lo! We have made LAWFUL unto thee THY WIVES unto whom thou hast paid their dowries,
Ya_ ay yuhan nabiy yu in na_ ahlalna_ laka AZWA_JAKAL la_til uju_rahun na

And those whom thy right hand possesseth of those, whom Allah hath given thee as SPOILS OF WAR,
wa MA_ MALAKAT yaminuka mim ma_ afa_ al la_hu alaika wa bana_ti am mika

and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage, A PRIVILEGE FOR THEE ONLY, not for the (rest of) believers.
wa bana_ti am ma_tika wa bana_ti ha-lika wa bana_ti ha_la_tikal la_ti ha_jarna ma'ak wamra atam muminatan iw wahabat nafsaha_ lin nabiy yi in ara_dan nabiy yu ay yastankihaha_ ha_lishatal laka min du_nil muminin

We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning THEIR WIVES and those whom their right hands possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
qad alimna_ ma_ faradna_ alaihim fi AZWA_JIHIM wa MA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUHUM likaila_ yaku_na alaika haraj wa ka_nal la_hu gafu_rur rahima_

Since Arabic is not my native tongue please ignore any incompatibility between the English and the Arabic quoted above, thanks.

God bless you.

[unknownuser]

Allah says (in a few ayah's )

you may marry no 1. or you can marry of the no 2.

Then Allah says

you can go into no 1. or 2.

Salaams.

Salaams and peace mz ..
Please quote all those Ayahs from the Qur'aan . Just for my information ..

[agentxxx]

peace be upon you mz/all,

VIEWS OF A SAUDI CLERIC, WHOSE NATIVE TONGUE IS ARABIC.

GLOBAL JIHAD
Saudi sheik 'Slavery is a part of Islam'
Leading government cleric, author of country's religious curriculum

Posted November 10, 2003
500 p.m. Eastern

? 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
A leading Saudi government cleric and author of the country's religious curriculum believes Islam advocates slavery.

"Slavery is a part of Islam," says Sheik Saleh Al-Fawzan, according to the independent Saudi Information Agency, or SIA.
Sheik Al-Fawzan

In a lecture recorded on tape by SIA, the sheik said, "Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam."

His religious books are used to teach 5 million Saudi students, both within the country and abroad, including the United States.

Al Fawzan ? a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia's highest religious body ? says Muslims who contend Islam is against slavery "are ignorant, not scholars."

"They are merely writers," he said, according to SIA. "Whoever says such things is an infidel."

Al-Fawzan's best-known textbook, "Al-Tawheed ? Monotheism," says most Muslims are polytheists, and their blood and money are therefore free for the taking by "true Muslims."

SIA said although the Saudi government claims religious curriculum is being reformed, Al-Fawzan's books are still in wide use.

Al-Fawzan is a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, Saudi Arabia's main center of learning for the strict Wahhabi interpretation of Islam.

SIA noted Al-Fawzan, a leading opponent of curriculum reform, opposes elections and demonstrations as Western influences, is against Arab women marrying non- Arab Muslims and has issued a fatwa forbidding the watching of television.

Al-Fawzan has threatened to behead a Saudi writer and scholar, Sheik Hassan Al-Maliki, for his criticism of Wahhabism, according to SIA. Al-Maliki was fired from his position with the ministry of education after writing a 50- page paper criticizing Al-Fawzan's book "Al-Tawheed."

For comparison
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

OUR PROPHET (PEACE AND BLESSINGS OF ALLAAH BE UPON HIM) ALSO DID THAT, AS DID THE SAHAABAH, the righteous and the scholars. THE SCHOLARS ARE UNANIMOUSLY AGREED ON THAT and it is not permissible for anyone to regard it as haraam or to forbid it. Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner WHO IS GOING AGAINST THE CONSENSUS OF THE SCHOLARS.

All i can say is, "oh my God, guide me to the straight path" as i am? .
GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Agent,

just going through some stuff , quistion popped up,

Is it possible Ma malakat aimanokum are wivescheck out the following of what it would mean-

Mz357
423-25
Prohibited to you are- Your mothers, daughters, sisters;--------------a long list here.
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom you possess by/through oath/s . A decree of Allah upon you and have been made lawful for you what beyond these that you seek by your wealth desiring wedlock chastity not debauchery for what you benefit (of it) from them and you give them their bridal due as a duty and no sin on you for what you mutually agree (of it) after (its) prescription indeed Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise .

And next ayah is about un-chast girls- i think.
004.025
And who not is able of you to AFFORD that he marry chaste believeing women from those who (want ) possession of oath, then from girls believing and Allah knows all about your faith you are one from another then marry them with permission of their guardians and give them their bridal due in a manner chaste not adulterous nor given to secret love affairs and when they are married and if they commit lewdness then upon them half of/what upon chaste women of the punishment this (is) for those who fear sin of you and Allah (is) All-Forgiviing Most Merciful.

004.003
YUSUFALI If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

Mz357and if you fear that not you will be able to do justice al-yataama then marry what seems good to you of women two or three or four but if you fear that not you can do justice then one so is/are possessed by oath that will be more suitable to prevent you from doing injustice.

033.052
YUSUFALI It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens) and Allah doth watch over all things.

Mz357It is not lawful for thee women after this ,nor to change them for (other) wives ,even though their beauty attract thee except what (you) possess through/by oath and Allah doth watch over all things.

070.030
YUSUFALI Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,

Mz357Except with their mates is/are possessed through/by oaths for they are not to be blamed.

Salaams all.

[unknownuser]

peace be upon you mz/all,

VIEWS OF A SAUDI CLERIC, WHOSE NATIVE TONGUE IS ARABIC.

Saudi clerics and sheiks are NOT the voice of Islam. So, lets not waste time on such garbage ..

[agentxxx]

Peace mz,

Brother I will tell you why I find it hard to accept the translation that you have posted?
Below is a list of different translations that I have for my reference, translations 1,2,3,4 are considered the most authentic in URDU LANGUAGE. Since I don?t know if you are familiar WITH THE SCHOLARS WHO DID THE TRANSLATION I will give you a brief intro with only THE FIRST TWO.

URDU TRANSLATIONS THAT I HAVE

-TAFEEM-UL-QURAN ------------BY--------------SYED ABUL ALA MOUDODI
Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi alternative spelling Syed Maudoodi; often referred to as Maulana Maududi) (1903-1979) was one of the most influential Muslim theologians of the 20th century and the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami (Islamic Party), an Islamic political party in Pakistan. Maulana Maududi?s philosophy, literary productivity and tireless activism contributed immensely to the development of Islamic political and social movements around the world. Maulana Maududi?s ideas profoundly influenced Sayyid Qutb of Egypt?s Jamiat al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun (?Muslim Brotherhood?) another leading Muslim philosopher of the 20th century. Together, Maududi and Qutb are considered the founding fathers of the global Islamic revival movement.

-TARJAMAN-UL-QURAN -----------by------------ MOULANA ABU KALAM AZAD
Abul Kalam Ghulam Muhiyuddin(November 11th 1888, Mecca- February 22, 195, better known as Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was a renowned scholar, poet, freedom fighter and leader of the Indian National Congress in India's struggle for Independence. He was well versed in many languages viz. Arabic, English, Hindi, Persian and Urdu, and a prolific debater - as depicted by his name, Abul Kal?m, which literally means father or lord of dialogue.
He was independent India's first Education Minister. The title Maulana is of a highly-qualified Islamic scholar and religious cleric. Azad was not a practicing cleric, however. He was posthumously awarded India's highest civilian honor, Bharat Ratna, in 1992.

-QURAN KA URDU TARJUMA-------------------- MOULANA FATEH MOHAMMED JALLADHARY
-AL QURAN-UL-HAKEEM ---------------------- MOULANA SHAH ABDUL QADIR MOHADUS DELHVI
-TAFSEER-A-NAMOONA ----------------------- MOULANA SAFDER HUSSAIN NAJAFI ..A PRESTIGIOUS SHIA INSTITUTE.
-QURAN MAJEED -------------------------------ABDUL REHMAN BIN AHMED
-TAFSEER IBN KATHEER -----------------------

NOTE ALL THESE TRANSLATION WERE DONE BEFORE 1970, TRANSLATIONS 234 WERE DONE BEFORE 1947.
ACCORDING TO ALL THESE URDU TRANSLATIONS
MA = WHOME
MALAKAT = OWN
AIMANU = RIGHT HAND
KUM = YOURS

NOTE ALL THESE SCHOLARS HAVE TRANSLATED MA MALAKAT AIMANUKUM AS SLAVES OR CONCUBINES -THE QURAN----------- MAHMUD Y.ZAYID.
APPROVED BY THE SUPREME SUNNI AND SHIA COUNCILS OT THE REPUBLIC OF LEBANON EDITION 1980

-THE KORAN------------------------- J.M.RODWELL

THE WONDERFUL KORAN----------BY PIR SALHUD-DIN

DOWNLOADED ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS

-NOBLE QURAN------------------ DR. MUHAMMAD TAQI-UD-DIN AL-HILALI. & DR. MUHAMMAD MUHSIN KHAN
-ENGLISH NOBLE QURAN-----OMAR AHMED [email protected]
-QURAN------------------------------GEOCITIES.COM
-QURAN------------------------------SHAKIR ALI

ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS ALIM
-QURAN------------------YOUSAF ALI
-QURAN------------------M PICKTHALL

ALL THE ABOVE MENTIONED TRANSLATIONS ARE FROM THE SCHOLARS OF DIFFERENT SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT, YET THEIR TRANSLATIONS ARE ALMOST SIMILAR .

ALL HAVE UNDERSTOOD AND TRANSLATED ?MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM? as CAPTIVES and SLAVES.

I down loaded these two translations
They are different from all the others that I have seen .

-QURAN-------------------DR RASHID KHALIFA
-QURAN-------------------DR SHABBIR AHMED

SO WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT THESE NEW MEANINGS?
I BELIEVE THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF ALL THOSE VERSE OF QURAN, WHICH ARE UNACCEPTABLE IN THE PRESENT TIME.

SINCE NO JUSTIFICATION CAN BE GIVEN TODAY FOR HAVING SEX WITH THE CAPTIVES, SO THE BEST SOLUTION IS TO CHANGE THE MEANING, TO LOOK FOR SOME OTHER MEANINGS THAT CAN MAKE THESE VERSES APPROPRIATE ACCORDING TO THE PRESENT TIME. AND THEN ACCUSE THE TRANSLATORS OF THE PAST FOR CAUSING SUCH CONFUSIONS.

SIMILAR CHANGES IN TRANSLATION HAVE BEEN MADE DURING THE LAST DECADE TO SHOW THAT QURAN FORETOLD ABOUT TODAYS SCIENTIFIC DISCOVORIES 1400 YEARS AGO.
THE DIFFERENT STAGES OF A CHILD IN THE WOMB.
EXPANDING UNIVERSE.

But when you crosscheck them in the earlier translations you see a different picture.
All this sometime makes you a bit skeptical about God?s book?

I hope I haven?t offended anyone with these remarks but this is my honest opinion, I would love to be proven wrong but till then this is what I think.

God bless you.

[unknownuser]

Peace agent xxx. I agree with your analysis. We should use our rationality and conscience when reading the quran(or any book/information). We also have to be honest with ourselves,and not justify verses of the quran which are unacceptable, with far-fetched interpretations. Why not treat it as a book of wisdom,but fallible and not absolute? (with some verses which can no longer be applicable to todays society.)
peace all.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Agent,

Hey Bro, if we start to look at a word to see how the entire mankind are using it -funny!

Look to see how the words are used in the quran itself Br - are you familier with burhans site-make use of it rather then following translations done by alims of other faiths-they will always translate according to their beliefs , thats their filter their belief.

Always try and have an open mind don't have filters except the Allah's attributes -they are the best filters.

sorry you think my trns isn't up to scratch - unfortunately i think the opposite - according to my belief.

here is example see what they translate the word as throughout the quran aimanokum???

Kayfa yahdee Allahu qawman kafaroobaAAda eemanihim washahidoo anna alrrasoola haqqunwajaahumu albayyinatu waAllahu layahdee alqawma alththalimeena
How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.
2.
Inna allatheena kafaroo baAAda eemanihimthumma izdadoo kufran lan tuqbala tawbatuhum waola-ikahumu alddalloona
But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.
3.
Wayaqoolu allatheena amanoo ahaola-iallatheena aqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihiminnahum lamaAAakum habitat aAAmaluhum faasbahookhasireena
And those who believe will say "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.
4.
Thalika adna an ya/too bialshshahadatiAAala wajhiha aw yakhafoo an turadda aymanunbaAAda aymanihim waittaqoo Allaha waismaAAoowaAllahu la yahdee alqawma alfasiqeena
That is most suitable that they may give the evidence in its true nature and shape, or else they would fear that other oaths would be taken after their oaths. But fear Allah, and listen (to His counsel) for Allah guideth not a rebellious people
5.
Allatheena amanoo walamyalbisoo eemanahum bithulmin ola-ikalahumu al-amnu wahum muhtadoona
"It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."
6.
Waaqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihimla-in jaat-hum ayatun layu/minunna biha qulinnama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wamayushAAirukum annaha itha jaat layu/minoona
They swear their strongest oaths by Allah, that if a (special) sign came to them, by it they would believe. Say "Certainly (all) signs are in the power of Allah but what will make you (Muslims) realise that (even) if (special) signs came, they will not believe."?
7.
Thumma laatiyannahum min bayniaydeehim wamin khalfihim waAAan aymanihim waAAan shama-ilihimwala tajidu aktharahum shakireena
"Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
8.
Wa-in nakathoo aymanahum min baAAdiAAahdihim wataAAanoo fee deenikum faqatilooa-immata alkufri innahum la aymana lahumlaAAallahum yantahoona
But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith for their oaths are nothing to them that thus they may be restrained.
9.
Ala tuqatiloona qawmannakathoo aymanahum wahammoo bi-ikhraji alrrasooliwahum badaookum awwala marratin atakhshawnahum faAllahuahaqqu an takhshawhu in kuntum mu/mineena
Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
10.
Waaqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihimla yabAAathu Allahu man yamootu bala waAAdanAAalayhi haqqan walakinna akthara alnnasila yaAAlamoona
They swear their strongest oaths by Allah, that Allah will not raise up those who die Nay, but it is a promise (binding) on Him in truth but most among mankind realise it not.
11.
WaAllahu faddala baAAdakumAAala baAAdin fee alrrizqi fama allatheenafuddiloo biraddee rizqihim AAala mamalakat aymanuhum fahum feehi sawaon afabiniAAmatiAllahi yajhadoona
Allah has bestowed His gifts of sustenance more freely on some of you than on others those more favoured are not going to throw back their gifts to those whom their right hands possess, so as to be equal in that respect. Will they then deny the favours of Allah?
12.
Illa AAala azwajihim awma malakat aymanuhum fa-innahum ghayru maloomeena
Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
13.
Waaqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihimla-in amartahum layakhrujunna qul la tuqsimoo taAAatunmaAAroofatun inna Allaha khabeerun bima taAAmaloona
They swear their strongest oaths by Allah that, if only thou wouldst command them, they would leave (their homes). Say "Swear ye not; Obedience is (more) reasonable; verily, Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do."
14.
Qul yawma alfathi la yanfaAAuallatheena kafaroo eemanuhum wala hum yuntharoona
Say "On the Day of Decision, no profit will it be to Unbelievers if they (then) believe! nor will they be granted a respite."
15.
Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyuinna ahlalna laka azwajaka allateeatayta ojoorahunna wama malakat yameenuka mimmaafaa Allahu AAalayka wabanati AAammika wabanatiAAammatika wabanati khalika wabanatikhalatika allatee hajarna maAAaka waimraatanmu/minatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in aradaalnnabiyyu an yastankihaha khalisatanlaka min dooni almu/mineena qad AAalimna ma faradnaAAalayhim fee azwajihim wama malakat aymanuhumlikayla yakoona AAalayka harajun wakana Allahughafooran raheeman
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
16.
Waaqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihimla-in jaahum natheerun layakoonunna ahda minihda al-omami falamma jaahum natheerunma zadahum illa nufooran
They swore their strongest oaths by Allah that if a warner came to them, they would follow his guidance better than any (other) of the Peoples But when a warner came to them, it has only increased their flight (from righteousness),-
17.
Falam yaku yanfaAAuhum eemanuhum lammaraaw ba/sana sunnata Allahi allatee qad khalat feeAAibadihi wakhasira hunalika alkafiroona
But their professing the Faith when they (actually) saw Our Punishment was not going to profit them. (Such has been) Allah's Way of dealing with His Servants (from the most ancient times). And even thus did the Rejecters of Allah perish (utterly)!
18.
Huwa allathee anzala alssakeenatafee quloobi almu/mineena liyazdadoo eemanan maAAaeemanihim walillahi junoodu alssamawatiwaal-ardi wakana Allahu AAaleeman hakeeman
It is He Who sent down tranquillity into the hearts of the Believers, that they may add faith to their faith;- for to Allah belong the Forces of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom;-
19.
Ittakhathoo aymanahum junnatanfasaddoo AAan sabeeli Allahi falahum AAathabunmuheenun
They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds) thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah therefore shall they have a humiliating Penalty.
20.
Ittakhathoo aymanahum junnatanfasaddoo AAan sabeeli Allahi innahum saa makanoo yaAAmaloona
They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds) thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah truly evil are their deeds.
21.
Illa AAala azwajihim awma malakat aymanuhum fa-innahum ghayru maloomeena
Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,

But please try not be a follower but use your intellect to be the leader.

God Be with you.

[agentxxx]

peace be upon you mz,

you wrote

mz-Look to see how the words are used in the quran itself Br - are you familier with burhans site-make use of it rather then following translations done by alims of other faiths-they will always translate according to their beliefs , thats their filter their belief.

No I am not familiar with this site but I will check it out.
You are right they do translate according to their beliefs, but some how they have translated ALL THESE VERSES in the same manner
and that make me wonder why?
WHY DID THEY ALL SO UNANIMOUSLY AGREED ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE?

May be some connection could be found in the following verses

4819. And ABUNDANT SPOILS THAT THEY WILL CAPTURE. And All?h is Ever All-Mighty, All-Wise.

4820. ALL?H HAS PROMISED YOU ABUNDANT SPOILS THAT YOU WILL CAPTURE, and He has hastened for you this, and He has restrained the hands of men from you, that it may be a sign for the believers, and that He may guide you to a Straight Path.

4821. And other (VICTORIES AND MUCH BOOTY THERE ARE, HE PROMISES YOU) which are not yet within your power, indeed All?h compasses them, And All?h is Ever Able to do all things.

4822. And those of the people of the Scripture who backed them (the disbelievers) All?h brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts, (so that) a group (of them) you killed, and A GROUP (OF THEM) YOU MADE CAPTIVES.

4823. And He caused you to inherit THEIR LANDS, and THEIR HOUSES, and THEIR RICHES, and a land which you had not trodden (before). And All?h is Able to do all things.

4824. And All?h did indeed fulfil His Promise to you when you were killing them (your enemy) with His Permission; until (the moment) you lost your courage and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed after HE SHOWED YOU (OF THE BOOTY) WHICH YOU LOVE. Among you are some THAT DESIRE THIS WORLD and some that desire the Hereafter. Then He made you flee from them (your enemy), that He might test you. But surely, He forgave you, and All?h is Most Gracious to the believers.

What were the gains as a result of these victories? Captives land houses and riches and see how they are being motivated for victories with the promises of booty . So not all were fighting for the cause of Allah only.

I am not a supporter of hadiths but I have to quote these three

(Muslim 2 3371 )
Abu Saeed narrates "We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Banu-Mustaliq and captured some of their excellent women We desired them because we suffered for being absent from our wives. SO WE STARTED COPULATING WITH THEM BY PRACTICING AZL, that is, withdrawing penis at the moment of orgasm with a view to avoiding conception. Realizing that we were doing an act while the Messenger of Allah was amongst us, we decided to refer the matter to him. The Prophet said, 'It does not matter whether you observe azl or not because every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."'

Bukhari 3432 Abu Said Al-Khudri
That while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! WE GET FEMALE CAPTIVES AS OUR SHARE OF BOOTY, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

Bukhari 3718 Ibn Muhairiz
I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured SOME OF THE 'ARABS AS CAPTIVES, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come into existence."

MZ-sorry you think my trns isn't up to scratch

Brother I didn?t mean that, I respect your opinion and the translation you posted, it?s just that at the moment I cant agree with your interpretation because of my own logical reasons..

I don?t understand Arabic, although I can read it. So my understanding of quran depends upon the translation only. Keeping in mind that beliefs can influence a translation; I have developed a practice of checking the same verse in all the different translations I can look into , and then go with the translation agreed upon by the majority of the scholars.

Mz-unfortunately i think the opposite - according to my belief.

Its absolutely natural and your right brother, I sincerely respect it .

Mz-But please try not be a follower but use your intellect to be the leader
.
If I were trying to be simply a follower without using intellect I have, I wouldn?t be disagreeing with you . However I have to admit I was more at peace mentally, when I was not using my so-called intellect and was just a blind follower.

Brother mz please do me a favor by underlining the specific Arabic words and their translation, that will make it much easy for me to understand and respond, thank you.

God bless you.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Agent,

you said ". " sorry Bro i can't seem to see any mention of female slaves in the arabic-you have to show me- which particuler word implies that.

Booty using burhans, the word is ghanim

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooitha darabtum fee sabeeli Allahifatabayyanoo wala taqooloo liman alqa ilaykumu alssalamalasta mu/minan tabtaghoona AAarada alhayatialddunya faAAinda Allahi maghanimukatheeratun kathalika kuntum min qablu famanna AllahuAAalaykum fatabayyanoo inna Allaha kana bimataAAmaloona khabeeran
O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.
2.
WaAAala allatheena hadooharramna kulla thee thufurinwamina albaqari waalghanami harramnaAAalayhim shuhoomahuma illa ma hamalatthuhooruhuma awi alhawayaaw ma ikhtalata biAAathmin thalikajazaynahum bibaghyihim wa-inna lasadiqoona
For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone this in recompense for their wilful disobedience for We are true (in Our ordinances).
3.
WaiAAlamoo annama ghanimtummin shay-in faanna lillahi khumusahu walilrrasooliwalithee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeeniwaibni alssabeeli in kuntum amantum biAllahiwama anzalna AAala AAabdina yawmaalfurqani yawma iltaqa aljamAAani waAllahuAAala kulli shay-in qadeerun
And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.
4.
Fakuloo mimma ghanimtum halalantayyiban waittaqoo Allaha inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good but fear Allah for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
5.
Qala hiya AAasaya atawakkaoAAalayha waahushshu biha AAala ghanameewaliya feeha maaribu okhra
He said, "It is my rod on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses."
6.
Wadawooda wasulaymana ithyahkumani fee alharthi ith nafashatfeehi ghanamu alqawmi wakunna lihukmihim shahideena
And remember David and Solomon, when they gave judgment in the matter of the field into which the sheep of certain people had strayed by night We did witness their judgment.
7.
Sayaqoolu almukhallafoona itha intalaqtumila maghanima lita/khuthooha tharoonanattabiAAkum yureedoona an yubaddiloo kalama Allahiqul lan tattabiAAoona kathalikum qala Allahumin qablu fasayaqooloona bal tahsudoonana bal kanoola yafqahoona illa qaleelan
Those who lagged behind (will say), when ye (are free to) march and take booty (in war) "Permit us to follow you." They wish to change Allah's decree Say "Not thus will ye follow us Allah has already declared (this) beforehand" then they will say, "But ye are jealous of us." Nay, but little do they understand (such things).
8.
Wamaghanima katheeratan ya/khuthoonahawakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman
And many gains will they acquire (besides) and Allah is Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.
9.
WaAAadakumu Allahu maghanimakatheeratan ta/khuthoonaha faAAajjala lakum hathihiwakaffa aydiya alnnasi AAankum walitakoona ayatanlilmu/mineena wayahdiyakum siratan mustaqeeman
Allah has promised you many gains that ye shall acquire, and He has given you these beforehand; and He has restrained the hands of men from you; that it may be a Sign for the Believers, and that He may guide you to a Straight Path;

and i will do the trans of the particuler ayah's 235-6 for you and show the words for trans. later on tonight, IF i am still here, as i will be taking a leave for a while but don't now when.

And i can't say anything about the hadith because i see them as mistranslated but if they/when they are translated correctly they will tell it all - i reckon aswell.

God peace

[agentxxx]

peace enquirer,
you wrote

Peace agent xxx. I agree with your analysis. We should use our rationality and conscience when reading the quran(or any book/information). We also have to be honest with ourselves,and not justify verses of the quran which are unacceptable, with far-fetched interpretations. Why not treat it as a book of wisdom,but fallible and not absolute? (with some verses which can no longer be applicable to todays society.)

Thank you bro for your input and i agree with it .

Peace.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Agent, and All,

Aw ma malakat aymanuhum

AW= (according to qd) simply indicates the presentation of an alternative similitude AS IS THE SURA INDICATING.

023.001
The believers will win through,-
023.002
Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
023.003
Who avoid vain talk;
023.004
Who are active in deeds of charity;
023.005
Who abstain from sex,

Zawwaj = a mate, people who may not be married have mates for sex as well but may not have any comitments as when you are married.

The sura is giving details of who a believer is .The thing standing out in ayah 6 is that having sex with your mate is no sign of a believer but having sex with a mate you are married to is the alternative similitude, like having humbleness in salaa and not just doing salaa, avoiding vain talk, doing deeds of charity and not just deeds.
Uses of AW in the quran.

Awa la yarawna annahum yuftanoonafee kulli AAamin marratan aw marratayni thumma layatooboona wala hum yaththakkaroona

See they not that they are tried every year once or twice? Yet they turn not in repentance, and they take no heed.

Awa lam yaraw ila ma khalaqaAllahu min shay-in yatafayyao thilaluhuAAani alyameeni waalshshama-ili sujjadan lillahiwahum dakhiroona

Do they not look at Allah's creation, (even) among (inanimate) things,- How their (very) shadows turn round, from the right and the left, prostrating themselves to Allah, and that in the humblest manner?

Awa kullama AAahadoo AAahdannabathahu fareequn minhum bal aktharuhum layu/minoona

Is it not (the case) that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside?- Nay, Most of them are faithless.

AW=who/is/are
MA=what.
MALAKAT= possessed.
AIMANUUM=oaths/ faith /right hands ? in the quran.

023.006
Except with their mates is/are what possessed (through) oath - for they are free from blame,

God Bless.

[agentxxx]

Peace Mz,
you wrote

you said ". " sorry Bro i can't seem to see any mention of female slaves in the arabic-you have to show me- which particular word implies that.

I don?t know about the Arabic word bro so cant show you that, but surely
They were taking captives .
Also their land, their homes and their riches
Now if by captives we only take male captives , then the question arises, what happened to the females/kids of those captives or the ones who were killed during the fight? Considering that their every means of survival was taken, I think there are only three possibilities regarding their fate

They were killed?
Awfully cruel and no way could be justified.

They were sent into exile?
With no one to protect them, someone else still would have enslaved them.

They were among the captives?
I believe this is the only logical ending for them considering the circumstances.

it is very interesting to compare the translation of one of the verse that you posted, with the translation of verse 7030 by rashid khalifa.

MZ
Fakuloo mimma ghanimtum halalantayyiban waittaqoo Allaha inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, LAWFUL and good but fear Allah for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

7029.They keep their chastity.
7030.(They have relations) only with their spouses, or what is LEGALLY theirs-

Please give me the address of this burhan site, I tried to find it but couldn?t.

God bless you.

[unknownuser]

Salaams Agent,

you said "

69] Fakuloo mimma ghanimtum halalantayyiban waittaqoo Allaha inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, LAWFUL and good but fear Allah for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

what is ghanim!

to me its the animals and the other such gains. e.t.c

http//www.irreduciblefifth.force9.co.uk/burhan/index.htm

Salaams.

[agentxxx]

Peace Mz,
you wrote

69] Fakuloo mimma ghanimtum halalantayyiban waittaqoo Allaha inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, LAWFUL and good but fear Allah for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

what is ghanim!

to me its the animals and the other such gains. e.t.c

to me brother it includes everything of the defeated party.

ghanim = nsheep -- vloot
ghanimtum = You gained

=SPOIL, BOOTY, TROPHY, HAUL, LOOT, TAKE, CAPTURE, PLUNDER, PRIZE, PREY, SWAG

peace.