gay people and islam
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Good question! Not many people bother with the Quran Study section of the forum. I wonder why is that?
Awesome question! Not many people bother with the 'purpose' of the forum/website and maybe delve upon the deeper meanings of "General Issues/ Questions". General Issues/Questions regarding God alone based on the quran? Or General Issues/Questions about chitter chatter? There is an Off Topic section made specially for this purpose...too bad it doesn't keep the idle chatter from spewing all over the place.
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Peace sawtooth. Truly wise words my friend. Our faith in things should stand up to scrutiny(and rational challenge).It should also(eventually) have an influence on our behaviour which is positive,decent and beneficial for all people that we meet.
Peace all. -
Peace savage carrot. Are posts encouraging respect,peace and love for all life ,'chitter chatter?
Peace all. -
Good question! Not many people bother with the Quran Study section of the forum. I wonder why is that?
Awesome question! Not many people bother with the 'purpose' of the forum/website and maybe delve upon the deeper meanings of "General Issues/ Questions". General Issues/Questions regarding God alone based on the quran? Or General Issues/Questions about chitter chatter? There is an Off Topic section made specially for this purpose...too bad it doesn't keep the idle chatter from spewing all over the place.
But these chitter chatter seems to generate a lot of interest. And yet no one bothers with the Quran Study Section? Why is that?
Why is this chittar chatter more interesting to many people?
Regards,
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Also, can you show me ONE EXAMPLE of a prophet or messenger speaking disrespcetfully?
Peace bro
to answer your question above, sure here is the Quran answering you, we read in Prophet Noah story while he was building the Ark, that his people were mocking him, Noah responded by mocking them as they moked him, apply this on my case with PM, she mocked me first and I defended myself by mocking her second
"Forthwith he (starts) constructing the Ark Every time that the chiefs of his people passed by him, they threw ridicule on him. He said 'If ye ridicule us now, we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise!'"
" "
Clear as light bro, the arabic word is Sakhara which means to Mock or to Embarrass
I rest my case bro
peace be with you
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So now god WANTS us to engage is silly name calling?
I think there either MUST be something you are missing here, or you just proved that the Korn is kind of a silly thig after all.
Or I just totaly missed what you said but i THINK you are saying that the Koran makes it OK for you to back and forth with silly same calling and mindless banter with people in a negative way.
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So now god WANTS us to engage is silly name calling?
I think there either MUST be something you are missing here, or you just proved that the Korn is kind of a silly thig after all.
Or I just totaly missed what you said but i THINK you are saying that the Koran makes it OK for you to back and forth with silly same calling and mindless banter with people in a negative way.
you totally missed what it is all about
firstly God does does not want the humans to engage in name calling, I believe this is in personal matters, but if it is religiouosly linked, then Allah ordered us to respond tough
PM clearly mocked me using the Quran, therefore it is religiously linked and I can also consider it mocking the Quran in addition to mocking me.
exactly as Noah's people did, they mocked him religioulsy as if what he is doing is laughable and there is no God to punish neither to save any.
exactly as they are mocking prophet mohammad now. (religiously linked)
the true muslims must respond tough and on the same manner as the perpetrators did and can't be ignored (if it is religiously linked)
see, how you missed what i wrote
salam
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Peace Zenje,
Peace brother,
Keep it up D
Looks like he needs another pat in the back. He actually used QURANIC VERSES to justify his vulgar comments. Thats sticking to Quran discussion in the thread, aint it?
I so cant believe this nonsense.
Is anyone allowed to have a difference of opinion? Or Will they get 'Righteously' pounded with 'vulgar remarks'?What's with the backlash? ? Is anyone else allowed to have a different opinion?... or is that reserved for homosexuals only. roll
Talk about homophobia phobia! lol
Peace people, let's continue the discussion civilly... yes that goes for everyone, me included.
And does such call for fairness come only for people u agree with?
Ps sorry for the sarcasm, but the encouragement of such language is disturbing.
Peace!
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So now god WANTS us to engage is silly name calling?
I think there either MUST be something you are missing here, or you just proved that the Korn is kind of a silly thig after all.
Or I just totaly missed what you said but i THINK you are saying that the Koran makes it OK for you to back and forth with silly same calling and mindless banter with people in a negative way.
you totally missed what it is all about
firstly God does does not want the humans to engage in name calling, I believe this is in personal matters, but if it is religiouosly linked, then Allah ordered us to respond tough
PM clearly mocked me using the Quran, therefore it is religiously linked and I can also consider it mocking the Quran in addition to mocking me.
exactly as Noah's people did, they mocked him religioulsy as if what he is doing is laughable and there is no God to punish neither to save any.
exactly as they are mocking prophet mohammad now. (religiously linked)
the true muslims must respond tough and on the same manner as the perpetrators did and can't be ignored (if it is religiously linked)
see, how you missed what i wrote
salam
OK. So if it is religiously based one is allowed to stoop to name calling a silly banter. Stix and stones my friend. Wouldn't it be a greater honor to Allah if you were able to teach by an example as to show another person there is nothing to mock? this silly back and forth bickering is nothing more than schoolyard child's play. Hardly an adult reaction and hardly (from what I have learned) the way of one walks any true path of Islam. It seems to me you will pull certain versus and more importantly interpretations, in order to justify any behaviour you wish to exhibit. I hardly think that was the intention of the book. No great being would want to be used as justification for such silly behaviour.
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forget it saw,
you actually should as you don't know allah neither you believe in him
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Ah, but i DO know the creator and believe quite deeply. I just have a different name and a different way is all. I respect th fact that you believe in the creator as you do, I don't believe I have ever given you any reason to think that I don't, I just wish you could offer me the same respect.
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Ah, but i DO know the creator and believe quite deeply. I just have a different name and a different way is all. I respect th fact that you believe in the creator as you do, I don't believe I have ever given you any reason to think that I don't, I just wish you could offer me the same respect.
sure, the Quran talked about you actually
cheers
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It's imposible to have a civil intelligent discussion with that. I believe I am done trying
I don't discuss religions based on personal opinions, bring the scripture your god send you for me to have any civil intelligent discussion, I'm not interested in any aspect in life but religions and scriptures
I hope you get what I'm trying to say, simply I submitted to Allah and for me His existanse is confirmed 100% and the punishsment after this life is confirmed 100%
you chose to take a gamble, fine, there is no intellgence here for me to debate with you, it is nothing but a silly gamble
all the best to you
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I can see you have submitted fully. What i fail to see is YOU. I fail to see the effect of your beliefes on YOU. I see only your knowledge of words and of cut and paste. YOU are absent from it. Now f that is the goal of submission I apologize.
the effect of belief on me can't be seen by a stranger on the virtual world if you don't mind,
also I'm not preaching my religion, I only respnd to attackes by non muslims and to miscoceptions by muslims
If I will preach my religion to anyone, then that one must approach me and ask me for help, very simple policies that I adapt
cheers
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Peace SC and all,
the pressing issue of people giving opinions on threads where people ask for a quranic response and debate. This has been happening for quite some time and is annoying to put it mildly. I have some questions for people...
On many threads that require an answer from a quranic standpoint, I'm seeing opinions from people who don't believe the quran to be authentic let alone one God, inclusive of some who funnily enough haven't even read the quran, yet stumble in for some chat time...
After hearing so many people say now that this thread seem to have required an answer from only a Quranic standpoint, I took the trouble of browsing through topo's posts. I dont see her mentioning that, though I agree the first post was about gay people and islam but the topic has been directed into different areas by the original poster itself. So, I dont see how the thread has been hijacked. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And neither were there any discussions on this thread on Quran's authenticity. I wouldnt call this discussion a chit chat but a discussion based on knowledege & understanding, atleast thats how I participated in it. I have no problems discussing issues from and out of Quran. But looks like many here think otherwise.
Anyways, If I am mistaken and If the original poster wanted a discussion only based on Quran, please correct me.
Thu Feb 02, 2006 454 pm
it seems that we look up to the bible it states very clearly that god condemns homosexuality, so does the quran, even if it's not as obvious as the bible.
but the least that i can hope from this community is not to stigmatize gay people. even if the scriptures say it's wrong, but we live in a society that gives everyone the rights to live their lives, and we are expected to have tolerance for everyone. just like when we have to live with people with different religions, even if our scriptures comdemns them of worshipping different god from ours, but it doesn't mean that we have the rights to not let them live their lives peacefully.
maybe we don't agree with homosexuality and use our scriptures to justify it, as much as we don't agree with atheism and other religions, but discriminating them by not granting them a legal to get married is quite intolerant. we don't agree with people who have different religions from us, but it doesn't mean that we can deny all or part of their legal rights, does it?
maybe all those homosexuals and people who believe different gods will go to hell, but who are we to judge them? and yes, the scriptures say this and that about them, but i don't agree if we use our scriptures to condemn particular group of people that we don't like. let them live their lives, we live in a society with variety of people, we can't expect every one of them to follow every rules in our religion.
as far as all the datas on the sexual misconducts of homosexual people are concerned, i don't think it's the right tool to judge them. the crime statistics of black and latino people are in general much higher than those of white people. but does it make that those black people do the crimes because they are black? sometimes people forgot that black people has been trapped in the system that has been discriminating them for so long since the slavery time, and i think this systematic crimes kind of happened to homosexual community too. that they have been being prejudiced and many of them are confused about themselves, thus the high level of suicide and drug abuse.
i don't think we will ever come to any agreement on this matter, we can only come to the state of tolerance, just like our tolerance to let other people have whatever religions they believe in.Or if its that this forum can have discussions only on Quranic verses, let me know, coz I wasnt aware of that either.
And also
Good question! Not many people bother with the Quran Study section of the forum. I wonder why is that?
Awesome question! Not many people bother with the 'purpose' of the forum/website and maybe delve upon the deeper meanings of "General Issues/ Questions". General Issues/Questions regarding God alone based on the quran? Or General Issues/Questions about chitter chatter? There is an Off Topic section made specially for this purpose...too bad it doesn't keep the idle chatter from spewing all over the place.
This is what it says
General Issues / Questions
This area deals with any questions/issues of a general nature and not already covered in the list of topics (please check the various topics BEFORE you post here).No mention of ''issues regarding God alone based on Quran'' here either.
Peace!
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I've only read a few responses here to notice that many have a fundamental view towards homosexuality.
It's frightening to see this in people who claim to be "liberal muslims". You are right, dear friend, in saying that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon. Yes, as some users have mentioned, it was considered a pathology until around 1975 when it was taken out of the Diangnostics and Statistical Manual (DSM). I believe the reasons for its removal were because it didn't harm anyone nor did it affect the proper functioning of a person.
The latter is a criteria given for a tendency to become a pathology. Now, arguments have been given here as comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, and I have to say, they are completely UNFOUNDED. Pedophilia is a disease in that a person can do sufficient harm to a child since one is acting towards the seduction of a child, most often against the child's will. In this case, children are at significant risk. Homosexuality, on the other hand, posed no risk whatsoever to those consenting. Therefore, it cannot be seen as a pathology.
This behavior has been seen in animals, thus the argument that it is "unnatural" simply falls out the window. That said, I would say that SOME incidences of homosexuality seem to be situational. In that some people who were raped or sexually molested in their past have adopted homosexual behavior later on. If this is the case, then some of these people can be "cured", if the root of the psychological problem/wound is healed.
But if there is no underlying history of abuse, albeit life-defining, one has to acknowledge that somehow, it can be naturally explained, and thus tolerated as a natural act. And being in harmony with nature is all about submission (Islam).
Shadowspeak*
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Peace be upon you Shadowspeak,
I've only read a few responses here to notice that many have a fundamental view towards homosexuality.
It's frightening to see this in people who claim to be "liberal muslims". You are right, dear friend, in saying that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon.
Natural? Is that why the penis and vagina are formed perfectly to compliment each other?
Yes, as some users have mentioned, it was considered a pathology until around 1975 when it was taken out of the Diangnostics and Statistical Manual (DSM). I believe the reasons for its removal were because it didn't harm anyone nor did it affect the proper functioning of a person.
According to who? The same type of person that makes alchohol and cigarettes legal while marijuana is illegal?
The latter is a criteria given for a tendency to become a pathology. Now, arguments have been given here as comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, and I have to say, they are completely UNFOUNDED.
They are both mental perversions. The proof of mental perversion are the cases of people who have children at one point, then LATER turn homosexual. However, there is nothing to offer as evidence of being genetically passed down.
Pedophilia is a disease
So is homosexuality.
in that a person can do sufficient harm to a child since one is acting towards the seduction of a child, most often against the child's will. In this case, children are at significant risk. Homosexuality, on the other hand, posed no risk whatsoever to those consenting. Therefore, it cannot be seen as a pathology.
It provides a WICKED option to the formible minds of the youth. All minds can be shaped and conditioned to do anything. It is an ACT that promotes the death of the human race.
More proof of its MENTAL basis, is that although one man may be attracted to another man, why does he still feel the need to walk and talk like a woman?
This behavior has been seen in animals, thus the argument that it is "unnatural" simply falls out the window. That said, I would say that SOME incidences of homosexuality seem to be situational. In that some people who were raped or sexually molested in their past have adopted homosexual behavior later on. If this is the case, then some of these people can be "cured", if the root of the psychological problem/wound is healed.
But if there is no underlying history of abuse, albeit life-defining, one has to acknowledge that somehow, it can be naturally explained, and thus tolerated as a natural act. And being in harmony with nature is all about submission (Islam).
We certainly are not basing our behavior on animals. It is the animal behavior we are here trying to transcend. Will it be natural to eat your childrenas some animals do? Bathe in feces? Wash ourselves with our tounges?
Gods path is to be in harmony with LAW.