3 salawaat
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Salaam All!
Im sorry Im new and the more I READ this post The more I GET confused..- The Quran translation I HAVE says
2144 (O Muhammad!)We have seen turn your face towards heaven(hoping for guidence).We will surely turn you towards a Qibla( the word direction us not used, but I understand it could mean this) that will please you.Turn towards the,Inviolable Sanctuary(al-Masjid al-Haram in Makka),and wherever you are,turn your faces toward it......"
If Makka isnt a place and if the Inviolable Sanctuary isnt al-Masjid al-Haram then where is it??The Quran says Turn towards this place,wherever we are...
See
2125 And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.As for 1087,my version from WhyIslam implies that no matter where we are at home or at a masjid we can do our prayers,worship etc,it has nothing to do with what direction we face,so its irrelevent to 2144....
2238 my translation has"Attend reguarly to your prayers,including the middle prayer.Stand(in your salat) with devotion to Allah".
Vs' 237 and 240 have nothing to do with prayer,then why do we have to accept vs 239 as to refer to the midday prayer.The way I READ IT,it is referring to us being in danger and are unable to do our prayers,any prayer. 239"If you are exposed to danger,(pray)while riding or on foot;and when you are restored to safety,remember Allah(and pray),as He has taught you what you did not know".
Is(pray) and (and pray) in the original Arabic,if not it makes since that Allah is telling us that if we are in danger and not able to pray,then remember to do it when we are in safety.
4103 SHAKIR Then when you have finished the prayer , remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.
- The Quran translation I HAVE says
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Peace be upon you,
The true 'qibla' is a spiritual direction/focus. We should be focused on the place of hearing and obeying the restrictions, a state of being where we are receptive to the LAW.
Before this, mankind is facing all kinds of "qibla", they do not even follow each others "qibla".
The God changes the condition of a person when they change what is in thier spirit/mind, so when the work is done, the God changes your qibla. Neither qibla deals with the rock in Mecca specifically, but more than that the ideology that includes facing a rock.
That which you concentrate on becomes BIG to you.
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Salaam!
I dont see it that way sorry...
the Quran says
(Translation)2125 And when We made the House a pilgrimage for men and a (place of) security, and Appoint for yourselves a place of prayer on the standing-place of Ibrahim. And We enjoined Ibrahim and Ismail saying Purify My House for those who visit (it) and those who abide (in it) for devotion and those who bow down (and) those who prostrate themselves.
This implies a physical place that we go to,and thats what I accept..Sorry if I dont have the same view as you.
Peace!Peace be upon you,
The true 'qibla' is a spiritual direction/focus. We should be focused on the place of hearing and obeying the restrictions, a state of being where we are receptive to the LAW.
Before this, mankind is facing all kinds of "qibla", they do not even follow each others "qibla".
The God changes the condition of a person when they change what is in thier spirit/mind, so when the work is done, the God changes your qibla. Neither qibla deals with the rock in Mecca specifically, but more than that the ideology that includes facing a rock.
That which you concentrate on becomes BIG to you.
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Peace,
I?ve been hatching this 2 vs. 3 debates unfold, and while I have not read every single post (there is a lot), something is becoming apparent to me. By it?s very nature 2238 creates a schism of thought, and plays directly into 37.
The fact is, 2238 on it?s own cannot justify three Salat a day. Because, unlike the 2 salat that are clear in the Qur?an, the critical question of where does this middle prayer go cannot be answered without the interjection human opinion. You have to make leaps of assumption, based on other ayat, that when the Qur?an say to glorify god at a certain time that is referring to salat. Indeed those ayat may be referring to salat. But can I not just be aware of God at this time then feeling appreciative say, ?Praise be to God??
The Qur?an clearly supports 2 salat on its own. But you cannot make the argument that there are 3 without the injunction of personal opinion. You cannot do it without saying, ?This is my opinion as to what those other ayat are saying?. To fallow three salat a day I must trust a human as having a superior understanding of the Qur?an.
This sounds exactly like the tradition Muslims when they say to "fallow what the scholars say because they?re learned". Which bears the question Why point out there mistakes of traditional Muslims, and then fallow in their footsteps?
Cheers,
Tim
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Peace be upon you BU Daddy,
Yes, the timing is clear as 2, and as soon as "wusta" is understood as "balance", meaning salaat makes you balancesd, rather than naming another time, everyone will be on the same page.
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And Peace unto you idolfree1
Yes, the timing is clear as 2, and as soon as "wusta" is understood as "balance", meaning salaat makes you balancesd, rather than naming another time, everyone will be on the same page.
I think that, whether wusta means middle or balanced is an argument that will go on for centuries with out a conclusion, and it may be irrelevant. I have been writing a peace on Salat to enhance my own understanding of it. While it is still a work in progress here is a sample of the methodology I have been using to make my evaluations.
As take from the peace?
Salat in the Qur?an
For analyzing Salat in the Qur?an I have employed the fallowing methodology.
The Qur?an tells us this about Islam.
4211 ??uphold this system, and do not divide in it.?
It also tells us this.
37 He is the One who sent down to you the Scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the Scripture; and others which are similar. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they Say ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And none will remember except the people of understanding.
Keeping in mind the above information I have only used verses (or sets of verses) that make very clear that the subject is Salat. Verses that use terms other than Salat such as ?glorify? or ?remember? have been deemed as ?similar? and rejected, because one can ?glorify? and ?remember? God outside of Salat. While it is tempting to use them, to make these verses apply to Salat requires interpretation. And as the above verse 37 puts it, interpreting similar verses is a sign of ?those who have disease in their hearts?. As well, interpreting similar verses creates multiple points of view, dividing the system.
Here is a sample of this methodology on action.
Governing verse
11 114 And thou shall uphold Salat at both edges of the day and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.Similar
20130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and from the early part of the night glorify, and at the edges of the day that you may be content.At this point I?m sure that there are a few etymology people out there raising red flags. To you There is a difference in interpreting words and interpreting verses. Even if from time to time interpreting words changes the meaning of the verses.
Cheers,
Tim
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Even the Free-Minds Translation refers to a physical place
2144 We see the shifting of thy face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the Scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.
2145 And if you come to those who have been given the Scripture with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked. http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/2
Vs 145 is referring to people not following the focal point/direction of believers or anyone else's direction and we would be of the wicked if we follow their desires,whether that be a wrong direction or non at all.
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Peace be upon you Bu Daddy,
I think that, whether wusta means middle or balanced is an argument that will go on for centuries with out a conclusion, and it may be irrelevant.
NOOOOO! D We cannot build a house on such a shaky foundation! D
Lets take a closer look at it.
Here are the occurences of the ROOT for "wusta"
(2136) Say "We trust with The God and what was descended to us and what was descended to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Issac, and Jacob, and al-asbati , and what was given to Moses, and Jesus , and what was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not separate/distinguish between anyone from them, and we are to Him "vehicles of peace" (muslimoona)
(2140) Or (do) you say that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Issac, and Jacob, and al-asbati were "hoodan" or "nasara"? Say "Are you more knowing or The God? And who (is) more unjust/oppressive than who hid/concealed a testimony at (with) him from The God, and The God is not ignoring about what you make/do ."
(384) Say "We trust with The God, and what descended on us, and what descended on Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and "al asbati" , and what Moses and Jesus and the prophets were given/brought from their Lord, we do not separate/distinguish/differentiate between any from them, and we are for Him "vehicles of Peace" (Muslimoona)
(4163) Surely We inspired to you, as We inspired to Noah and the prophets from after him, and We inspired to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Issac, and Jacob, and "al-asbati" , and Jesus, and Job, and Jonah and Aaron, and Solomon, and We gave David a Book.
The above occurences dont give us insigt into what we are looking for, lets look at the others.
(2143) And like that We made you a balanced nation (ommatan wasatan) to be witnesses on the people, and the messenger be (a) witness on you, and We did not make the focus that you were on it, except to know who follows the messenger from who returns on his two heels , and that truly (was) big/great (E) except on those who The God guided, and The God was not to waste your faith/belief, surely The God (is) with the people merciful/compassionate (E) , most merciful.
We can see here that Wusta implies BALANCE as the people being described are between. To be balanced is to be in the middle, but we dont say middle nation as it does not convey the meaning intended. Something to NOTE is that the messenger is a WITNESS on us, no man can WITNESS after his death, so this refers to a concept "messengership", not some superhero character stuck in the past.
(223 Guard upon the programming (salaat), and the programming balances, and maintain to the God devoutly.
We are to guard our ability to program ourselves so that others do not program us and we make sure we are in control of it. It is the proper programing that balances us. But this verse is the object of our study, so lets come back to it.
- The God does not punish you with the nonsense/useless talk in your oaths, and but He punishes you with what you intended (in) the oaths, so its cover/substitution (is) feeding ten poorest of poor/poor oppressed from balance/average (awsati) of what you feed your families , or their dressing/clothing, or feeding/liberating a neck/person/slave, so who does not find, so fasting three days, that (is) cover/substitution (for) your oaths, if you swore/took oath, and guard your oaths, like that The God clarifies to you His verses/evidences, maybe you thank/be grateful.
This verse also gives us the understanding by way of BALANCE, not too far to the extreme in any direction, the average.
(682 The balanced among them said "Did I not say to you if only you glorify?"
The "middle" among them makes no sense.
(1005) Fawasatna bihi jamAAan
My translation would imply the balance of a group, but not sure how this should be directly translated.
So in conclusion, the implication is BALANCE.
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Salat al Fajr and Salat al Isha
The root of the word 'zulufann' is 'Zulfa'. This word is used in the Quran to mean near or adjacent" ..... Those who set up idols beside Him say, "We idolize them only to bring us 'zulfa' (near/close) to God ...." 393
As a result, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' means the near/adjacent part of the night. The obvious question is near to what? Nothing can be described as 'near' in absolute terms, the word near can only have a meaning when we have a reference point to which this thing is near to. So now we have to read 11114 again and see what does God mean by near, near to what? The only other reference points given in 11114 are the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset). Also note that the word which is used in 11114 is 'zulufann', this is a plural form of 'zulfa', thus the words 'zulufann min al-layl' speak of the parts of the night (plural) that are adjacent to the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset).
The adjacent parts of the night (to sunrise and sunset) are the two 'parts' of the night, the part before sunrise, and the part after sunset (note that anytime before sunrise and after sunset is defined as night in Quranic terminology).
As a result it becomes apparent that God is giving us in 11114 the range of two salat. The range for the two salat are the parts of the night that are just before sunrise and immediately after sunset.
Perhaps the word "wa" (which means AND) and which is placed before the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' in 11114 contributed largely to the mis-interpretation of this verse. Many have understood the word 'and' to mean (and an additional Salat), however, the word 'and' simply links the two ends of the day with their adjacent parts of the night to give the time range of the two salat. This is not any different than the following example
If your doctor tells you You can only have your medicine at miday AND for the following few hours.
What does this mean? Does this mean that you must take the medicine at miday and then take it AGAIN for a few hours after that? or does it simply mean that the time you can take the medicine is anytime between miday and the few hours after that?Salat al Wusta
The word Wusta is the adjective of the word Wasat which means middle, therefore the words Al-Salat Al-Wusta mean 'The Middle Prayer'. Moreover, the notion of a 'Middle' prayer indicates that the number of prayers is an odd number. Consequently, the Salat Al-Wusta is a prayer that lies half way between the two prayers at the two ends of the day. In astronomical terms this Salat is due exactly at the middle of the day, i.e. when the sun has travelled half its distance in the sky.In 2238 we read the words 'hafezu ala al-salawaat', which mean (you shall persevere with your prayers). The word 'Salawaat' is plural and speaks of more than two prayers. If they were only two prayers the word used would have been 'Al-Salatayn' (the two prayers).
Moreover, if God was speaking about the concept of prayer in general, and without referring to the number of individual salat, the words used would have been "hafezu ala al-salat" as we read in many other verse.
The Salat Al-Wusta can be observed from the moment the sun begins its descend from its highest point (duluk al shams) until the darkness of the night (ghasaq al-layl) starts, which is at sunset
"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayer) from when the sun declines from its highest point up till the 'ghasaq al-layl' (the darkness of the night)." 1778
http//www.quran-islam.org/177.html
I think the above is one of the best explainations Ive read concerning the Salat times......next to http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
Guess this means Im back to 3 times for Salat again..
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From my previous post I had
In 2238 we read the words 'hafezu ala al-salawaat', which mean (you shall persevere with your prayers). The word 'Salawaat' is plural and speaks of more than two prayers. If they were only two prayers the word used would have been 'Al-Salatayn' (the two prayers).
Is this true? Does it mean more than 2?????
Moreover, if God was speaking about the concept of prayer in general, and without referring to the number of individual salat, the words used would have been "hafezu ala al-salat" as we read in many other verse.
Is this true?
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nearst the centre(m.a.) alwusht(al wusta)
, , ( ) put or be in a state of balance; compare the value of something with that of another; give equal importance to different parts of something(b.v)
We can see here that al wusta and the Arabic words for balanced are not the same...
Al Wusta means nearest the center...So Al wusta doesnt mean balanced,it means in the Middle or Center..
2238 You shall consistently observe the Contact Salats, especially the center salat, and devote yourselves totally to GOD....