what are emotions?
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Stop talking about bacon already!! You are all making me hungry and I don't have any in the fridge!!!! NOT FAIR! P
Yeah, I know how it FEELS. wink but control your emotions or run to a grocery store.
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I had a half a ham sandwich. Not quite bacon but still yummy LOL
Gee man, you're not only "watering my mouth" but wetting my thoughts/emotions as well, Just this afternoon at work, during my lunch break and for the first time, I had a Malabu Sandwich (chicken with bacon, cheese and vegetables) from a regular roach coach. Aw man, tis was delicious and healthy. No worries left behind, if you know what I mean, realistically. wink
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Hola Elena,
Love and compassion higuest part of man if the man directs them to right ends.
Think not you can direct the course of LOVE.
If LOVE finds you worthy it will direct your course.
-Khalil GibranSo Elena if you can direct the course of LOVE and COMPASSION then I am really happy for you. The scripture starts with the words "In the Name of the God Most Compassionate". Compassion it seems is very Divine. So I will let Divine EMOTION of LOVE and COMPASSION direct my course.
Perhaps Elena this is my limitation as individual. My fault as a person to be led by the EMOTIONS of LOVE and COMPASSION which is the highest part of man. But I accept this limitation in myself with understanding as I am limited in many ways. And just like other individual's expressons of selfless love and compassion towards myself has humanised me, people have come back and said my expression of love and compassion have humanised them too...
REASON explains the material world. It even allows us to explain our responses to base emotions. Love and compassion is the highest part of man. It goes beyond the world of the rational and enters the realm of the Spiritual. That is why all the wise people of the past have cultvated and nurtured compassion for themselves and for all humanity. Buddha even tramped all over India to teach the power of love and compassion.
Imagine a person who feels so compassionate towards a criminal that he helps him to escape the justice.
Compassion Elena is being able to feel the suffering of others. The Criminal is the causer of suffering not the one that suffers. Comassion is not letting the Criminal go...
Peace as stilness in opposition to emotion as movement.
Lets take analogy. If you see human individual as an Orchestra. Then all the Instrument working together creates harmony. If the one instrument is out of sync it creates disharmony. So peace in this context is all instrument playing together creating harmony.
What about when no instruments are playing. Is that Stillness? No. There is harmony of silence. But you can say silence is Stillness. No because atoms in each instrument is still vibrating. But you can say all atoms are wanting to be at the state of Stillness. But that is impossible because ENERGY is in a constant of flux. This means that it is continually changing from one form to another. Why is energy in a constant state of flux? Science has no answer yet for this.
I'd say reprogramming and moderating in this context are the same.
Moderating is like when you can drink 10 cups of wine but you limit yourself to 5. Reprogramming is drinking fruit juice instead.
Regards,
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Hello PM,
Hmm, Would that mean animals do not experience love and compassion?
Love and Compassion is execeptionally the most human of emotions. But no doubt that altruism exists in the animal world too. But altruism in the form of love and compassion finds its true and fuller expression in Humans. And just like DNA separated us from the apes to make us a seprate species so has love and compassion separated us from the Animal World to makes us exeptionally unique lifeform...
I would say we can....i.e, we can correct wrong emotions.
Wrong emotions? Is anger wrong emotion PM? Is Fear wrong emotions?
I think not. So what are you correcting?
Regards,
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Hopefully one day you will reach the level where you KNOW that you can.
You FEEL emotion. You can't change how you feel.
But how you react to FEELING can be learnt from experience. That is agreed upon. So lets move on.In the morning, your EMOTIONS will fight you and push you to stay in bed, so you have to IGNORE that ENERGY and go do it anyway.
If EMOTIONS is energy why would it push you back into bed?
ENERGY is a property of an object to do work.
The more energy you have the more work you can do.
That is why creative people are more energetic!But tell me how is getting up from bed equates with LOVE and COMPASSION that you have for yourself and your fellow human beings? You could lay in bed and still have feelings of LOVE and COMPASSION for your fellow man?
I had this happen with Carrot Juice. I did not like it but I knew it was god for me, so I would juice it up and drink it, now I love it. How is that possible?
How does your dislike of carrot juice compare with love and compassion for yourself and others. I can hate carrot juice and yet have love and compassion for my fellow man and for myself?
If the emotion does not come, how can one FEEL it? My mouth does nt water from the smell of pork bacon(trigger) anymore, why?
Erm...EMOTION is the FEELING.
Your power is the FREEDOM to IGNORE the emotions and to reprogram the correct response to any given situation.
Why do you want to ignore feelings of LOVE and COMPASSION for yourself and your fellow man?
Quran starts with these words "In the Name of God Most Compassionate". It seems Compassion is Divine! So whats wrong being led by Divine Emotions of Compassion?
I'm sorry, I did not see anyone say they felt dumb. But if they do FEEL that, I hope they will IGNORE that emotion and continue to reason with me while I continue to elaborate on this.
Now you being patronising too wink
I have verified that statement time and time again, and this world has no shortage of examples. I am here sharing what I have verified and have been studying intensely for teh past two years in paticular. So when you KNOW, you speak confidently. I am in no way tryin to belittle anyone and you should not try to shade the conversation to make it seem that way. Lets stick to the facts.
Previously you said EMOTIONS are animalistic and is lower part of man. Now you agree that EMOTIONS of LOVE and COMPASSION is the HIGHEST PART of man. But only if properly understood! So why say so EMOTIONS are animalistic in the first place?
No, people dont stay still, but the comparison is the ACTIVITY of WAR. Can you fight laying in bed?
Yes you can. You can send commands through your computer to launch a missile and destroy a city -)
ACTIVITY OF WAR is violence. But when the violence is over people don't sit still. They go and live harmonious lives.
So PEACE in this context is used as a metaphor, not literal.
So you are now appealing to metaphor because it suits you?
There is NOTHING in the illusion of this world that is STILL. Everything vibrates. But EVERYTHING is trying to recapture its original essence, PEACE.
Or you can see it differently. PEACE is harmonising yourself with the RESONANT FREQUENCEY of the UNITY of the ONE. So essence of PEACE is harmony with Everything. Time to look into Kabalah again chap. Might give you new insight... -)
But tell me what is PEACE in the context of a human being?
Example, if you take a piece of pape and drop it, what does it do? Everything is tryin to achieve that STILLNESS, that Peace. When you are stressed out from EMOTION, what do most people do? Go lay down.
Piece of paper is an inanimate object. It will obey the laws of physics. Its atoms will continually will vibrate even at the temperature of aboslute zero. But we are different. We straddle both the material and immaterial worlds.
But you say EMOTION is ENERGY and ENERGY is property of thing that allows you to do work. So how can you get stressed out from ENERGY? It dont make sense. The more energy you have the more work you can do. Thats why creative people are very energetic. When you lay down on bed because you have not the ENERGY to do anymore work.
Main Entry 2peace
Function intransitive verb
obsolete to be, become, or keep silent or quietWhere is STILLNESS in there?
This is more in line with what I am talking about. MOVEMENT is what creates sound, so how does one attain silence/quiet?
Silence is not Stillness. Even in meditation your brains goes into a rythem and you can still hear the sound of the primordial "om".
That should be sufficient but I want to show you what I fond under the first entry
1 a state of tranquillity or quiet as a freedom from civil disturbance b a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom <a breach of the peace>
2 freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions
3 harmony in personal relations
4 a a state or period of mutual concord between governments b a pact or agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity
5 -- used interjectionally to ask for silence or calm or as a greeting or farewell- at peace in a state of concord or tranquillity
There is no STILLNESS there. Harmony is there.
Not really, the molecules, from which all things are made, are still moving.
The word CONTEXT would have been a give away. In the context of BODY STILLNESS would be DEATH -). There power of CONTEXT.
Maybe you should relate it to sleep, then you will see how crave this STILLNESS and cant go long without charging up from this Stillness.
sleep is not DEATH. Nor in sleep are we STILL.
Stillness be upon you
HARMONY be upon you -)
This is science, but I guess you just want flowery poetry. I'm sorry, I am not into that.
I am into science too. I am a scientist myself.
So you can speak to me atoms and vibrations until you are blue in the face wink But the discussion we are having is the subjective experience of emotions. Not emprical science of atomic vibrations.
Nir=Not Vana= Moving (spanish speakers should be able to see this clearly)
And someone from Sanscrit background would really understand the word Nirvana? In Bengali which is derivative of Sanskcrit, it is Nibana, meaning "cooling off". The cooling effect you get after a high fever...
Where you will find "An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy."
Yes HARMONY. No Stillness in Nirvana!
Among much other information. The Western Culture cannot grasp Eastern Spirituality, so I am not suprised by your inability to find what I am saying from a quick browse.
Erm...I am from the East...but in my mind there is no such EAST and WEST division -)
Read the "cloud of Unknowing" by Western mystics and compare it with Eastern spirituality wink
What makes you assume that everyone FEELS anger at injustice? Does the crooked judge who takes a bribe FEEL anger when they give the injust sentence?
Perhaps I have met the first person who does not FEEL anger at INJUSTICE -)
Absolutely!!! But first they must be made to serve and not rule,thats my point.
All states of EMOTIONS needs to be experienced. But only positive emotions needs to be cultivated like LOVE and COMPASSION.
Whatever name you want to call it, it is all ENERGY in MOTION pushing towards something or away from something, it must be made to SERVE, not LEAD.
LOVE and COMPASSION pushes people into embracing mankind. That is a good thing isn't it? Unlike NEGATIVE emotions which leads to people to do real harm.
You being a student of meditation, I am suprised that you are not grasping what I am saying.
I understand what you saying. But I am surprised that you don't know how important LOVE and COMPASSION is in the spiritual growth of the individual. Even the Scripture starts with the words "In the Name of God Most Compassionate"...Compassion is Divine. How can one go wrong when led by Divine emotions? -)
No matter what the emotion, one cannot think properly while engaged in the upper chest , rapid breathing, and loss of blood to brain and other vital organs that accompanies EMOTIONS. Just look at people while engaged in SEX, the get very dumb!
Rapid breathing etc happens in a good workout. And orgasm like all ecstasy goes beyond the rational -) You can't use reason and say now I will have an orgasm! I don't think it works like this way!!! wink
No, it is correct that we come PRE PROGRAMMED with certain "fight or flight" responses, but the enlightened master will not teach to "deal" with the energy, instead to TRANSCEND it.
What does transcended mean in this context. Does it mean you don't feel any emotions? Do they still feel and they just ignore it? Please elaborate.
Sure, the HA Ha Ha sound releases energy from the heart chakra. But how can one laugh if they are shackled by anger?
Hey I don't understand? You said Anger leads to stress and I say laughter alleivates stress.
You have to sit back and OBSERVE what I am saying, not try to give a quick witty response. Respectfully brother.
Bro with due respects to you when you say our vital organs get oxygen starved I am showing you in a exercise this happens also. If that upsets you I do apologise.
Exercise in moderation is good.
Moderation in all things is GOOD even EMOTIONS. That has been the teaching all wise teachers of the past.
You have not reasoned this through. Does the same thing that makes you "angry" make someone else "angry"?
Injustice should make all people angry. Perhaps you are not one of those people.
Good! Now go back and see this is what I have been saying all along.
You were saying emotions are animalistic and is the lower part of man. But I have shown you that LOVE and COMPASSION is the HIGHEST PART of man. And you agreed. So you understood me all along...
The reason we do exercise is because it helps to strengthen the body and burn fat which will help us when we come back to PEACE so that the nutrients we consume can reach all points in the body without raising the blood pressure. So this minimal starving has some benefit.
When anger subsides normal blood flow is resotered. Just like in an exercise wink
Regards,
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Hi Idolfree1,
And Idolfree, a battered woman doesnt really stay with her partner coz of love though she may say so.......she stays becoz of insecurities(can be any such as financial , social, emotional etc) unless she is a strange woman herself who enjoys being beaten up.
Yes, I understand this perfectly. The reality is that all these differnt names "anger, joy, fear, love, etc" are all just ENERGY. It is ENERGY that is keeping the battered woman there. She calls the energy Love.
Now, u r mixing emotions here. If u say, its the emotion that keeps her there....I might agree......coz fear can keep her there.
But its not love. All emotions are not the same. Fear is not equal to love.
No one can feel love for a person who abuses them in any way. So, in her case, its not love that keeps her there. She may say so, just to hide the real truth of her suffering and insecurity from others, especially her loved ones.Peace!
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Hi LT,
Hmm, Would that mean animals do not experience love and compassion?
Love and Compassion is execeptionally the most human of emotions. But no doubt that altruism exists in the animal world too. But altruism in the form of love and compassion finds its true and fuller expression in Humans. And just like DNA separated us from the apes to make us a seprate species so has love and compassion separated us from the Animal World to makes us exeptionally unique lifeform...
I thought it was the power of reason /wisdom that makes us the exceptionally unique form...while animals primarily function with instinct and intuition. So, the human brain and its power of reason is what seperates humans from animals.
I would think love and compassion exsist in the animal world too. But that doesnt mean these are animal emotions. What I mean to say is that they exsist in humans as well as in animals and are meant to be strong, constructive forces in both. But humans also ought to make sure that they are constructive by using their power of reason.I would say we can....i.e, we can correct wrong emotions.
Wrong emotions? Is anger wrong emotion PM?
Can be....It really depends.
As I understand, every emotion is actually meant to have a constructive purpose. Even anger. Even Fear. But when thats not the case......when the emotion doesnt serve a constructive purpose, it would mean, its wrong.For eg, Anger.
Now say a person sees his friend being beaten up physically by bullies. Now this person feels anger at the bullies becoz of the injustice.......this leads him to interfere and protect his friend...... constructive?Now say another person had an awfully bad day at work.........comes home after work....wanting to relax........his young child approaches him with love to play with him........he gets very angry and shouts at the child. .....destructive?
Is Fear wrong emotions?
Can be, LT.
For eg, say a student has an important exam coming up, for which he has made sincere and adequate preparations from a long time. Now, in the final days of revison, he experiences irrational fear becoz of thinking the worst scenario..such as he might flunk.......so, that causes so much fear that he is unable to keep his normal calm and self....is very tensed/stressed....becoz of which he ends up performing real bad in the exam itself.
I would say this emotion was wrong coz it did not have any constructive outcome/purpose. If this person calmed himself before the exam...realised and accepted the reality that certain elements of destiny are beyond his control and he can do only what he can, he would remain calm and give his best shot at the exam, wont he?Flight, fight and fright are the primitive survival instincts when one senses danger. They are meant to have a constructive purpose.
So what are you correcting?
Irrational thoughts leading to wrong emotions.
Peace!
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Deleted
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Peace be upon you all,
I don't think emotions or thoughts are meant to be controlled in the sense of trying to shut them out... this just leads to deceiving ourselves. Rather, they should be understood, and thus transcended. When you understand what thoughts, or experiences, cause you anger, you will then be able to transcend such emotions. This comes from observing your own thoughts constantly, and is no doubt extremely difficult to do.
When we talk about love though, we must understand that it cannot exist without hate. Everything exists in polarities, love needs hate, just as good needs evil. Understanding this, leads to the recognition that you can never foster love and compassion without there being hate, you can never have such a world. They are one thing, different polarities. Its like trying to have the yin without the yang. Happiness without sadness.
When you feel hate, you feel that it is your duty to replace hate with love. But love cannot come from desire. You cannot force love or compassion...You can instead pretend love, pretend compassion, but you can never force the actual state. So saying you must foster love towards others, is in my opinion impossible, unless you simply transcend your emotions, transcend your thoughts... in a sense reach enlightenment. Then you will foster love and compassion naturally, because you will realize the divine in everyone. But, telling someone that they should cultivate love and compassion, is in my opinion like saying you must love me. Is it possible to force love?
Peace be with you,
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Peace Peace,
I disagree with your understanding that love cannot exist without hate. I do not feel these are opposites, at all. Hate is a complete illusion. It is most often a projection of one's own psychological shortcomings.
As they say, a grudge only harms the one who holds it.
Perhaps this may seem a bit metaphysical, but in my opinion, love is the only truth. In that, I mean, when we experience love, we experience our connection with the entire universe.
I also disagree that love cannot be recognized or experienced through desire. In fact, once a shift in awareness is achieved, love can be found everywhere. I'm not talking about reaching some ultimate state of enlightenment. I'm talking about simply shifting your focus.
I recall getting accustomed to my daily commute. Everyday, thoughts would race through my head as I fought through the relentless flow of traffic to reach my work. All I could see was what was right in front of me. I'd curse at the SUV's that cut me off and then hit the brakes, or the people who don't let you change lanes once they see you put your signal on, or the ones who don't understand the meaning of ACCELERATION lane. Then, one day, I decided to get in the slow lane. I looked through my sunroof and marvelled at the cloud patterns. I watched the trees stretching out to catch the wind, or flipping their leaves to catch the rain. I let the wind flow through my car, through my body, through my soul.
In short, I decided to stop getting frustrated and to simply take my time and enjoy the view, to see the love everywhere. When people talk to me, I don't always listen to their words. I try to see what's in their eyes. I'm always looking for the love in people, in things, moments.
In my opinion, love is the very energy that binds the universe together. Love is the God energy. It has no opposite, it has no equal. It is the only reality. Everything else is "mindstuff".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
Well you've given me a lot to think about. Love indeed is a complex feeling, but it's just that... a feeling. Why do we love people? Why do you seek to find love in everybody? Is it not for the feeling it gives you, otherwise, why do it?I disagree with your understanding that love cannot exist without hate. I do not feel these are opposites, at all. Hate is a complete illusion. It is most often a projection of one's own psychological shortcomings.
You stated that hate is a complete illusion, but a person who hates, in my opinion feels that it's as real as love. What makes you think one's an illusion and the other not? Can they both not be an illusion? A lot of times we hate what we ourselves cannot overcome... our own faults that we project onto others. That's true, but a lot of people hate Saddam, hate Idi Amin, does this have anything to do with their own shortcomings? Don't we love people the same way? Loving them because they project the beauty we see within ourselves?
Perhaps this may seem a bit metaphysical, but in my opinion, love is the only truth. In that, I mean, when we experience love, we experience our connection with the entire universe.
So you feel that because when you experience love, you experience your connection with the universe, and for this reason love is the only truth? In my opinion love is no more a truth, than hate is a truth, no more a truth than good or bad... In order to feel love, there must be an external, other things to love and when they disappear you love their memory, but you're still placing love in something external. Looking at it from another point of view, we can see that love will never get rid of desire. In fact, it will most likely create more desire... desire to find more things that will give you that feeling of love. Are you sure that the importance you place in love is not because of this feeling of being connected with the universe that it gives you?
I also disagree that love cannot be recognized or experienced through desire. In fact, once a shift in awareness is achieved, love can be found everywhere. I'm not talking about reaching some ultimate state of enlightenment. I'm talking about simply shifting your focus.
Hmm, so you can force yourself to love someone? If someone came up to you and said "love me", could you instantly love that person? How do you achieve this shift in awareness? Why is it that you've felt the need to shift your awareness? The whole point of enlightenment is the fact that you're already there... you just haven't realized it yet, the path is the destination, so it isn't really some ultimate state, it is supposed to be the natural state. Shifting focus sounds like something that the ego would perform. Is it not the ego that breaks things down and focuses on them?
I recall getting accustomed to my daily commute. Everyday, thoughts would race through my head as I fought through the relentless flow of traffic to reach my work. All I could see was what was right in front of me. I'd curse at the SUV's that cut me off and then hit the brakes, or the people who don't let you change lanes once they see you put your signal on, or the ones who don't understand the meaning of ACCELERATION lane. Then, one day, I decided to get in the slow lane. I looked through my sunroof and marvelled at the cloud patterns. I watched the trees stretching out to catch the wind, or flipping their leaves to catch the rain. I let the wind flow through my car, through my body, through my soul.
LOL, damn I better make sure to stay outta your way... looking at cloud patterns while driving, shouldn't they have a rule against that? I understand though, sometimes we just have to be in the present, not judging, not worrying, just taking in everything like we would while listening to music. Are you a poet, cuz the last part of what you said really feels like poetry, it's great...
In short, I decided to stop getting frustrated and to simply take my time and enjoy the view, to see the love everywhere. When people talk to me, I don't always listen to their words. I try to see what's in their eyes. I'm always looking for the love in people, in things, moments.
Interesting, perhaps I'll have to try seeing love in everything. But I would have no idea how to do so.
In my opinion, love is the very energy that binds the universe together. Love is the God energy. It has no opposite, it has no equal. It is the only reality. Everything else is "mindstuff".
I would like to know how you came to this conclusion. It is an interesting one, but not one I currently share. I'll have to think a little more about it, but I'm sure intellectual understanding will never accomplish anything. It seems to be something that must be experienced. Anyway, I love reading your posts as I always find them very informative, and I'm sorry about all the questions; just trying to come to a better understanding.
Peacceee
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Peace Peace,
You stated
Love indeed is a complex feeling, but it's just that... a feeling. Why do we love people? Why do you seek to find love in everybody? Is it not for the feeling it gives you, otherwise, why do it?
All good feeling stems from love. Think about it. Try to come up with a good feeling that isn't directly attached to some shade of love.
You stated that hate is a complete illusion, but a person who hates, in my opinion feels that it's as real as love. What makes you think one's an illusion and the other not? Can they both not be an illusion?
Because hate can always be traced back to something that lacks. Hate is a disguise for the underlying truth. Hate, in itself, is not an emotion, it is not a reality, but an excuse to postpone addressing the deeper issue.
Love, on the other hand, cannot be traced. It is the beginning and the end. One does not love as an evolution, but as a return to the natural state. This is why one can suddenly "fall in love", or find love in life around them. One cannot suddenly fall into hate. Hate is a process of layering "mindstuff" on top of the soul.
A lot of times we hate what we ourselves cannot overcome... our own faults that we project onto others. That's true, but a lot of people hate Saddam, hate Idi Amin, does this have anything to do with their own shortcomings?
Yes. There is no room for hate. It's a dead end. It's an illusion. How many people who say they hate Saddam actually know Saddam? Let's review the word itself
hate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht)
v. hat?ed, hat?ing, hates
v. tr.To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for hates washing dishes.v. intr.
To feel hatred.n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
An object of detestation or hatred My pet hate is tardiness.I'll run with the first definition if you don't mind. So, hate is to feel hostility toward something/someone. Using the example of Saddam, from where does the hostility arise? Is it from knowing his character? Probably not. It is, most likely, from the suffering he's caused. And who suffered? His people. And why should we care about people we don't know? Because we're imbedded with compassion, and compassion stems from love.
Do you see?
So, the hate, in itself, is nothing. It is a non-constructive, self-inflicted feeling that is completely unnecessary. What one who is in tune with their compassion should feel, is sadness. The person who rushes to the hate emotion has decided to quell the sadness by blaming. And this is the cause of many of the world's problems.
So you feel that because when you experience love, you experience your connection with the universe, and for this reason love is the only truth?
That is not my complete answer, but yes. As I said, love is it's own reward, and this is God's blessing upon us. When we experience love, we are experiencing the "godliness" of our nature. There's a lot more to it, but I'd like to address the rest of your thoughts and perhaps this will carry over.
In my opinion love is no more a truth, than hate is a truth, no more a truth than good or bad...
You're certainly entitled to feel this way, but I ask how you can verify this within your self. What does hate produce? What does love produce? And how do these results fit into the flow of the universe? Can you sit in a field by yourself and manifest hatred without using love as a starting point? Can you do the same with love without using hate as a starting point?
In order to feel love, there must be an external, other things to love and when they disappear you love their memory, but you're still placing love in something external.
I've felt love within myself, as well as between myself and God. Nothing external is necessary. But understand that what we do experience externally as love is the reminder of our own being, our own unity, and that is why the love emanates.
Looking at it from another point of view, we can see that love will never get rid of desire. In fact, it will most likely create more desire... desire to find more things that will give you that feeling of love.
Correct. And this is a beautiful thing, no?
Are you sure that the importance you place in love is not because of this feeling of being connected with the universe that it gives you?
It is, absolutely, for this exact reason. Connection to the universe is connection to God, to all of life. Isn't that our ultimate goal, and our ultimate destiny?
so you can force yourself to love someone? If someone came up to you and said "love me", could you instantly love that person?
They don't have to ask. It's much easier to love someone who is genuine, who allows their soul to lead instead of their sum total of experiences. But even those who are sheltered within their minds can be loved in an instant. Usually, all it takes is a deep look into a person's eyes.
How do you achieve this shift in awareness?
You turn off the judgement motor.
Why is it that you've felt the need to shift your awareness?
Because I majored in psychology in college. Knowing the nuts and bolts of the human mind led me to think I could figure everyone out. For a while, I was silently placing people in compartments. This did noting for my spiritual growth. All it did was feed my ego.
The whole point of enlightenment is the fact that you're already there... you just haven't realized it yet, the path is the destination, so it isn't really some ultimate state, it is supposed to be the natural state.
Exactly. I just wasn't sure of your familiarity with the term, so I wanted to be clear in my explanation that loving is easy.
Shifting focus sounds like something that the ego would perform.
I understand. However, I feel the soul is ultimately in the driver's seat. You can stop judging if you want. If the ego was doing it, it wouldn't know how, since the ego is not self-aware, but the superficial layer of the self.
Is it not the ego that breaks things down and focuses on them?
The ego moves, but the soul is what directs it. Atleast, that is the ideal. However, this life tests us in keeping control. When the ego is not held in check, it will run into it's own destruction, fooling us into believing that we are what we think. This is why it is vitally important to exercise the soul on a regular basis.
I understand though, sometimes we just have to be in the present, not judging, not worrying, just taking in everything like we would while listening to music.
Exactamundo! That's that exercising I was talking about.
Are you a poet, cuz the last part of what you said really feels like poetry, it's great...
ops Thank you. I used to write a lot back when I was fighting myself, but music has taken over as my release.
Interesting, perhaps I'll have to try seeing love in everything. But I would have no idea how to do so.
Like I said, all you have to do is turn off the judgement motor and just listen, with compassion. You'll see a whole new world.
I would like to know how you came to this conclusion. It is an interesting one, but not one I currently share. I'll have to think a little more about it, but I'm sure intellectual understanding will never accomplish anything. It seems to be something that must be experienced.
I guess you're right. I think the experience is the key, because one cannot really explain life, or God. But just keep in mind that the opportunity for these experiences surround us, at every moment. When you become aware of one, don't let it fade by giving control of your time to your mind. The mind always interrupts and convinces us that we're being irrational or silly or whatever.
Anyway, I love reading your posts as I always find them very informative, and I'm sorry about all the questions; just trying to come to a better understanding.
Thank you kindly. The feeling is mutual. It is very refeshing to discuss rather than debate. Thank you for that.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Danish,
Though I do find most of your post quite insightful and full of vigor
Thank you
, I do have a question on your following statement
idolfree1 wrote
If the emotion does not come, how can one FEEL it? My mouth does nt water from the smell of pork bacon(trigger) anymore, why?Did you had a 'watery mouth' for smelling or eating pig's meat before and what was it that caused your emotions/feelings to change? Was it because the Quran said so and thereby a mindset or was it because you KNOW that pig's meat is unhealthy and injurious to health? In either case, please elaborate with convincing and substantiated points, keeping in mind that billions of people eat them? Just curious to hear your views in relations to emotional control.
Yes, I used to love pork bacon, extra crispy. I would crumble it up in cheese eggs, or have a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich.
I first made the change based on blind following of sunni understanding of "Koran". I quit cold turkey. It was the very first discipline I followed after accepting Sunni Ideology. Today it is because of health factors coupled with the structure of the human digestive system and tools. I am in the process of becoming vegetarian. But until I do so, I certainly will not go near what seems to be the worst form of meat which is the pig. In regards to the statement of not eating pig's meat in this reading (Koran), I take that as a metaphor for conduct, because there is so much unhealthy food that is not mentioned, that it cant be about whats good and not good to literally eat.
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree
IF1
Hopefully one day you will reach the level where you KNOW that you can.LT
You FEEL emotion. You can't change how you feel.No, not when the emotion/energy comes, but you can prevent that emotion from coming. I have given plenty of examples and if you were to just reflect honestly about it, you would see that this is true. Here's another. A man see's a beautiful woman, emotions get his adrenaline flowing and he talks to her and over time they get married, have sex and all of that. Years later, after a vicious divorce he sees the same woman. Do you think the same energy will visit him as it did the first time? Why not?
IF1
In the morning, your EMOTIONS will fight you and push you to stay in bed, so you have to IGNORE that ENERGY and go do it anyway.LT
If EMOTIONS is energy why would it push you back into bed?
ENERGY is a property of an object to do work.
The more energy you have the more work you can do.
That is why creative people are more energetic!It seems you are saying anything to protect your understanding. You mean to tell me that I am the only one who has witnessed how your energy can push you out of bed on a day when you have something exciting to do, or maybe it is your day off of work. But when you have to get up to work out of go to work, that same energy, associated with the thoughts and images of what you have to do that day keep you in bed?
You need to reflect on these things.
But tell me how is getting up from bed equates with LOVE and COMPASSION that you have for yourself and your fellow human beings? You could lay in bed and still have feelings of LOVE and COMPASSION for your fellow man?
YOu are confusing yourself with ths love and compassion talk. I will not address these subjective "names", all EMOTION is energy, no matter what name is slapped on it.
IF1
I have verified that statement time and time again, and this world has no shortage of examples. I am here sharing what I have verified and have been studying intensely for teh past two years in paticular. So when you KNOW, you speak confidently. I am in no way tryin to belittle anyone and you should not try to shade the conversation to make it seem that way. Lets stick to the facts.LT
Previously you said EMOTIONS are animalistic and is lower part of man. Now you agree that EMOTIONS of LOVE and COMPASSION is the HIGHEST PART of man. But only if properly understood! So why say so EMOTIONS are animalistic in the first place?This will require understanding of the tree of life, which we are not directly discussing here. But I will say this , all ENERGY is anamalistic. That which I think you are referring to is above the energy part of being. I will try to elaborate in another post than this one because this is already a long post and I want it to be clear.
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So PEACE in this context is used as a metaphor, not literal.So you are now appealing to metaphor because it suits you?
No, because its truth. There is nothing in the physcial world that is truly STILL, everything vibrates. But the SOURCE of where we come from is STILLNESS, energy/motion is the manifestation.
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There is NOTHING in the illusion of this world that is STILL. Everything vibrates. But EVERYTHING is trying to recapture its original essence, PEACE.Or you can see it differently. PEACE is harmonising yourself with the RESONANT FREQUENCEY of the UNITY of the ONE. So essence of PEACE is harmony with Everything. Time to look into Kabalah again chap. Might give you new insight...
If you really knew Kaballah we wouldnt be having this discussion. That which you call harmony is Chesed, that which is PEACE/STILNESS is the sphere above the Tree, above Kether, which most Jewish desciptions dont show. You can see what I am talking about at the following short description of the Tree of Life. The sphere I am talking about is called "Amen". The sphere you are talking about is Sphere 4 MAAT. You wil find your "harmony" there.
http//www.theafrican.com/Magazine/Cosmo.htm
I am stopping here in an effort to shorten our posts so everyone can easily follow along. If there is anything after this that you really want me to address, please re ask in a future post.
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
IF1
Yes, I understand this perfectly. The reality is that all these differnt names "anger, joy, fear, love, etc" are all just ENERGY. It is ENERGY that is keeping the battered woman there. She calls the energy Love.PM
Now, u r mixing emotions here.No I'm not because I am not giving this "energy" any titles. Thats where it gets mixed up. Energy is energy.
If u say, its the emotion that keeps her there....I might agree......coz fear can keep her there. But its not love.
Ask her what it is and she will say "love". Will you argue with her about such a subjective topic? But when we get objective about it, it is just ENERGY that is keeping here there, no matter what anyone calls this energy.
All emotions are not the same. Fear is not equal to love.
They are both energy. The only difference is that it can be an energy pushing you away from something or attracting you towards something.
No one can feel love for a person who abuses them in any way. So, in her case, its not love that keeps her there. She may say so, just to hide the real truth of her suffering and insecurity from others, especially her loved ones.
I dont want to get into the discussion of these names. It is an energy that is keeping her there and she is being LED by that energy, not her reasoning.
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Hi idolfree1,
I am not giving this "energy" any titles. Thats where it gets mixed up. Energy is energy.
Well, in that case there is no life without energy, is there? ITs that energy that keeps us alive spiritually.
Peace!
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Peace Kyle,
Yes, I used to love pork bacon, extra crispy. I would crumble it up in cheese eggs, or have a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich.
I am just beginning to experience this 'dreadful' yet tasteful delight, but then
I am in the process of becoming vegetarian.
I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself as well, but somehow the mouth watering Korean BBQ, the juicy ribs and steaks and the chicken tikka, shashlic, jalfrazi, the Lahori charga, etc. including the sheesh, sami and chapli kebabs, prevents me from going tipsy-topsy about becoming a vegetarian. I guess I've been spoiled by these entree from childhood up, specially by our professional Bengali cook back then in Pakistan.
Today it is because of health factors coupled with the structure of the human digestive system and tools. But until I do so, I certainly will not go near what seems to be the worst form of meat which is the pig. In regards to the statement of not eating pig's meat in this reading (Koran), I take that as a metaphor for conduct, because there is so much unhealthy food that is not mentioned, that it cant be about whats good and not good to literally eat.
I used to think that pig's meat was bad by its very nature but not anymore and certainly not via the Quran. This has been discussed at length and I wouldn't like to wind up that route unless compelled to do so. Well, I think all edibles (meat, vegetables, fruits, dry-fruits, dairy products) and liquid forms in general, substantiate to a certain degree of "shelf life"; how these edibles are cultivated, processed and tested for consumption as well as its environment and treatment, not to mention individual's health issues plays an important role. That's all.
What impact has pig's meat caused on billions of people today throughout the world that made pig's meat SPECIFICALLY worst of all other animals, not to mention bird's flu and mad cow disease?
Kyle, how do your reason with chocolates, eggs, french fries, cookies, and jello for example, knowing that these are either made or immersed in animal shortings?