Is the quran preserved or the message?
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Salaamun alaikum,
Some questions for you
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Is all of az-zikr vital for humanity? If not, can you please pin-point which is more important and which is less?
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How do you acquire information from az-zikr?
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If you acquire information of az-zikr from al-quraan, can all of az-zikr be transmitted to you if bits from al-quraan are missing and bits have been added?
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38/1 tells us that 'al-quraan is dhi az-zikr'. Dhi here indicates a posession of something. If al-quraan (not fariqan min al-quraan but the entire al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, can any part of it be compromised if az-zikr is protected.
thanks.
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Hi Br. mquran,
You said
?2. How do you acquire information from az-zikr??
Information is by inspiration to people, to some more then others.
You said
?3. If you acquire information of az-zikr from al-quraan, can all of az-zikr be transmitted to you if bits from al-quraan are missing and bits have been added??
If bits are removed or added does it matter as Allah has taken full responsibility to safeguard the al-zikr /the inspiration irrespect.
You said
?. 38/1 tells us that 'al-quraan is dhi az-zikr'. Dhi here indicates a posession of something. If al-quraan (not fariqan min al-quraan but the entire al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, can any part of it be compromised if az-zikr is protected.?
A call/ proclamation/ conveyance/ recital/ reading containing admonititons will continue for always and will guard it/take care of it the Allmighty ? no one can stop Him inspiring humans and no they don?t need to be Arabs.
Can anyone stop Him?
Remember the quran wasn?t a book as such but a conveyance/call a series of proclamations admonishing people.
I believe.
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SimpleInformation is by inspiration to people, to some more then others.
I see. Have you recieved or met anyone who has recievd inspiration. If so, how is this person to prove that he was inspired?
If bits are removed or added does it matter as Allah has taken full responsibility to safeguard the al-zikr /the inspiration irrespect.
Ok. So lets say you tell people 'i was inspired to believe that humans must pray like the sunnis'. When ppl ask you for proof, what will be your answer ? That the relevant parts of al-quraan required to prove the ritual has been lost?
The question, which you didn't respond to was if al-quraan (note that this isnt a portion of al-quraan but al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, it means that once you lose a part of al-quraanl, you will lose a part of az-zikr.
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Hi Br. Ayman,
Here it is
1.Inna allatheena kafaroo bialththikrilamma jaahum wa-innahu lakitabun AAazeezun
Those who reject the Message when it comes to them (are not hidden from Us). And indeed it is a Book of exalted power.
Here the word is slightly different it is ?bialthikri? thats why it is not on the previouse list.
But I think the word here which is being misunderstood is
According to lanes 2590.
?kitabun? = decree/ revelation/ judgment/scripture/book.
No message has ever been in the form of a book from the Allmighty it has always been other ?revelation/judgment.
God Bless all.
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Hi mquran,
You said
?See. Have you received or met anyone who has received inspiration. If so, how is this person to prove that he was inspired??
Every individual can be inspired depends how closely you are to listning/feelling/seeing the inspirations.
If the inspiration benefits even as much as a particle of sand or something ? it?s usually inspired, I believe.
You said
?
Ok. So let?s say you tell people 'I was inspired to believe that humans must pray like the Sunnis'. When ppl ask you for proof, what will be your answer? That the relevant parts of al-quraan required to prove the ritual has been lost??But Br. Where is the benefit?see answer one.
You said
The question, which you didn't respond to, was if al-quraan (note that this isn?t a portion of al-quraan but al-quraan) posesses az-zikr, it means that once you lose a part of al-quraanl, you will lose a part of az-zikr.?You may lose a part of the message preserved in the quranic book
But the message will always be with you me as Allah will inspire it to others and thus admonish us.God Bless all.
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Every individual can be inspired depends how closely you are to listning/feelling/seeing the inspirations.
If the inspiration benefits even as much as a particle of sand or something ? it?s usually inspired, I believe.
Ok, so there's no textual clarification. Bush and Blair both claim that God guided them to war upon Saddam Hussain. They could say that their actions has brought benefit but I think much of the world would disagree. This is where a clarification comes in. Al-quraan contains ayaatun bayyinah (10/15), clarifying signs.
But Br. Where is the benefit?see answer one.
The benefit comes when you can verify what people say according to Allah's value system. The ritual salaat cannot be found in al-quraan but if one claims that part of al-quraan is missing, then one can render the matter ambiguous.
Allah preserving az-zikr here doesn't mean he didn't preserve al-quraan. Rather the preservation of al=quraan AND its method of conveying meaning has been preserved.
You may lose a part of the message preserved in the quranic book
But the message will always be with you me as Allah will inspire it to others and thus admonish us.I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah?
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Hi mquran,
You said
?Ok, so there's no textual clarification. Bush and Blair both claim that God guided them to war upon Saddam Hussain. They could say that their actions has brought benefit but I think much of the world would disagree. This is where a clarification comes in. Al-quraan contains ayaatun bayyinah (10/15), clarifying signs.?
This is the reason we choose committees or members of parliament ?competent men who can make better decisions on inspirations to see / work out the benefits , we do Sali that is discuss.
And we don?t let the people who were benefiting from inaction decide .
And when clear decisions are told to them they do not agree with them.
But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it I follow naught but what is revealed unto me if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)
You said
?The benefit comes when you can verify what people say according to Allah's value system. The ritual salaat cannot be found in al-quraan but if one claims that part of al-quraan is missing, then one can render the matter ambiguous.?All people know/see the benefits and know Allah?s value system ?and it is only the wicked or the idol worshippers who don?t agree.Irrespective of whether part is missing or is an addition Allah?s system none can stop but the wicked or the idollarors will always try to.
You said
?Allah preserving az-zikr here doesn't mean he didn't preserve al-quraan. Rather the preservation of al=quraan AND its method of conveying meaning has been preserved.?
I think our difference here is you say the quran is the preserved thing ; I as truth said it is the message and if people choose to write their own qurans Allah will always send the orders by inspiring others.
You said
?I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah??
That is the reason for Sali , discussions to verify the truth of it with the inspiration of others competent .
Gods Blessings on all.
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?I see. How do you know it wasn't ash-shaitaan whispering to you instead of Allah??
I would like to add some thougts I have had about this subject. The whispers are the media. Subliminal programming, programmed music, we even call the tv shows....programs. What is a program then?
- To include or schedule in a program program a new musical composition.
- To design a program for; schedule the activities of.
- To provide (a machine) with a set of coded working instructions.
- To train to perform automatically in a desired way, as if programming a machine programmed the children to use perfect table manners.
- To prepare an instructional sequence for (material to be taught) in programmed instruction.
now why would our masters, call our "entertainment" that we currently spend on average 6 hours a day in front ...programs? Are they mocking us I wonder?
And when you start to wonder about things like that. You start to realise that you have been had. suddenly you hear the "whispers" as booming voices, and you see darkness and corruption everywhere, and you start to panic.
Now you start o listen to God, thats how scared you become. Now you are ready to get inspiration directly, the message that was preserved as promised. And untill you understand excactly what i mean with the above said, This whole discission is void, because you just dont get it brother untill you let go of your idol (a mental construct in your head). The Quran was the key to my journey,but i understand now that it is not the answer itself. "You recite it, we explain it" indeed.
peace