what are emotions?
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Peace Peace,
You stated
Love indeed is a complex feeling, but it's just that... a feeling. Why do we love people? Why do you seek to find love in everybody? Is it not for the feeling it gives you, otherwise, why do it?
All good feeling stems from love. Think about it. Try to come up with a good feeling that isn't directly attached to some shade of love.
You stated that hate is a complete illusion, but a person who hates, in my opinion feels that it's as real as love. What makes you think one's an illusion and the other not? Can they both not be an illusion?
Because hate can always be traced back to something that lacks. Hate is a disguise for the underlying truth. Hate, in itself, is not an emotion, it is not a reality, but an excuse to postpone addressing the deeper issue.
Love, on the other hand, cannot be traced. It is the beginning and the end. One does not love as an evolution, but as a return to the natural state. This is why one can suddenly "fall in love", or find love in life around them. One cannot suddenly fall into hate. Hate is a process of layering "mindstuff" on top of the soul.
A lot of times we hate what we ourselves cannot overcome... our own faults that we project onto others. That's true, but a lot of people hate Saddam, hate Idi Amin, does this have anything to do with their own shortcomings?
Yes. There is no room for hate. It's a dead end. It's an illusion. How many people who say they hate Saddam actually know Saddam? Let's review the word itself
hate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht)
v. hat?ed, hat?ing, hates
v. tr.To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for hates washing dishes.v. intr.
To feel hatred.n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
An object of detestation or hatred My pet hate is tardiness.I'll run with the first definition if you don't mind. So, hate is to feel hostility toward something/someone. Using the example of Saddam, from where does the hostility arise? Is it from knowing his character? Probably not. It is, most likely, from the suffering he's caused. And who suffered? His people. And why should we care about people we don't know? Because we're imbedded with compassion, and compassion stems from love.
Do you see?
So, the hate, in itself, is nothing. It is a non-constructive, self-inflicted feeling that is completely unnecessary. What one who is in tune with their compassion should feel, is sadness. The person who rushes to the hate emotion has decided to quell the sadness by blaming. And this is the cause of many of the world's problems.
So you feel that because when you experience love, you experience your connection with the universe, and for this reason love is the only truth?
That is not my complete answer, but yes. As I said, love is it's own reward, and this is God's blessing upon us. When we experience love, we are experiencing the "godliness" of our nature. There's a lot more to it, but I'd like to address the rest of your thoughts and perhaps this will carry over.
In my opinion love is no more a truth, than hate is a truth, no more a truth than good or bad...
You're certainly entitled to feel this way, but I ask how you can verify this within your self. What does hate produce? What does love produce? And how do these results fit into the flow of the universe? Can you sit in a field by yourself and manifest hatred without using love as a starting point? Can you do the same with love without using hate as a starting point?
In order to feel love, there must be an external, other things to love and when they disappear you love their memory, but you're still placing love in something external.
I've felt love within myself, as well as between myself and God. Nothing external is necessary. But understand that what we do experience externally as love is the reminder of our own being, our own unity, and that is why the love emanates.
Looking at it from another point of view, we can see that love will never get rid of desire. In fact, it will most likely create more desire... desire to find more things that will give you that feeling of love.
Correct. And this is a beautiful thing, no?
Are you sure that the importance you place in love is not because of this feeling of being connected with the universe that it gives you?
It is, absolutely, for this exact reason. Connection to the universe is connection to God, to all of life. Isn't that our ultimate goal, and our ultimate destiny?
so you can force yourself to love someone? If someone came up to you and said "love me", could you instantly love that person?
They don't have to ask. It's much easier to love someone who is genuine, who allows their soul to lead instead of their sum total of experiences. But even those who are sheltered within their minds can be loved in an instant. Usually, all it takes is a deep look into a person's eyes.
How do you achieve this shift in awareness?
You turn off the judgement motor.
Why is it that you've felt the need to shift your awareness?
Because I majored in psychology in college. Knowing the nuts and bolts of the human mind led me to think I could figure everyone out. For a while, I was silently placing people in compartments. This did noting for my spiritual growth. All it did was feed my ego.
The whole point of enlightenment is the fact that you're already there... you just haven't realized it yet, the path is the destination, so it isn't really some ultimate state, it is supposed to be the natural state.
Exactly. I just wasn't sure of your familiarity with the term, so I wanted to be clear in my explanation that loving is easy.
Shifting focus sounds like something that the ego would perform.
I understand. However, I feel the soul is ultimately in the driver's seat. You can stop judging if you want. If the ego was doing it, it wouldn't know how, since the ego is not self-aware, but the superficial layer of the self.
Is it not the ego that breaks things down and focuses on them?
The ego moves, but the soul is what directs it. Atleast, that is the ideal. However, this life tests us in keeping control. When the ego is not held in check, it will run into it's own destruction, fooling us into believing that we are what we think. This is why it is vitally important to exercise the soul on a regular basis.
I understand though, sometimes we just have to be in the present, not judging, not worrying, just taking in everything like we would while listening to music.
Exactamundo! That's that exercising I was talking about.
Are you a poet, cuz the last part of what you said really feels like poetry, it's great...
ops Thank you. I used to write a lot back when I was fighting myself, but music has taken over as my release.
Interesting, perhaps I'll have to try seeing love in everything. But I would have no idea how to do so.
Like I said, all you have to do is turn off the judgement motor and just listen, with compassion. You'll see a whole new world.
I would like to know how you came to this conclusion. It is an interesting one, but not one I currently share. I'll have to think a little more about it, but I'm sure intellectual understanding will never accomplish anything. It seems to be something that must be experienced.
I guess you're right. I think the experience is the key, because one cannot really explain life, or God. But just keep in mind that the opportunity for these experiences surround us, at every moment. When you become aware of one, don't let it fade by giving control of your time to your mind. The mind always interrupts and convinces us that we're being irrational or silly or whatever.
Anyway, I love reading your posts as I always find them very informative, and I'm sorry about all the questions; just trying to come to a better understanding.
Thank you kindly. The feeling is mutual. It is very refeshing to discuss rather than debate. Thank you for that.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Danish,
Though I do find most of your post quite insightful and full of vigor
Thank you
, I do have a question on your following statement
idolfree1 wrote
If the emotion does not come, how can one FEEL it? My mouth does nt water from the smell of pork bacon(trigger) anymore, why?Did you had a 'watery mouth' for smelling or eating pig's meat before and what was it that caused your emotions/feelings to change? Was it because the Quran said so and thereby a mindset or was it because you KNOW that pig's meat is unhealthy and injurious to health? In either case, please elaborate with convincing and substantiated points, keeping in mind that billions of people eat them? Just curious to hear your views in relations to emotional control.
Yes, I used to love pork bacon, extra crispy. I would crumble it up in cheese eggs, or have a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich.
I first made the change based on blind following of sunni understanding of "Koran". I quit cold turkey. It was the very first discipline I followed after accepting Sunni Ideology. Today it is because of health factors coupled with the structure of the human digestive system and tools. I am in the process of becoming vegetarian. But until I do so, I certainly will not go near what seems to be the worst form of meat which is the pig. In regards to the statement of not eating pig's meat in this reading (Koran), I take that as a metaphor for conduct, because there is so much unhealthy food that is not mentioned, that it cant be about whats good and not good to literally eat.
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree
IF1
Hopefully one day you will reach the level where you KNOW that you can.LT
You FEEL emotion. You can't change how you feel.No, not when the emotion/energy comes, but you can prevent that emotion from coming. I have given plenty of examples and if you were to just reflect honestly about it, you would see that this is true. Here's another. A man see's a beautiful woman, emotions get his adrenaline flowing and he talks to her and over time they get married, have sex and all of that. Years later, after a vicious divorce he sees the same woman. Do you think the same energy will visit him as it did the first time? Why not?
IF1
In the morning, your EMOTIONS will fight you and push you to stay in bed, so you have to IGNORE that ENERGY and go do it anyway.LT
If EMOTIONS is energy why would it push you back into bed?
ENERGY is a property of an object to do work.
The more energy you have the more work you can do.
That is why creative people are more energetic!It seems you are saying anything to protect your understanding. You mean to tell me that I am the only one who has witnessed how your energy can push you out of bed on a day when you have something exciting to do, or maybe it is your day off of work. But when you have to get up to work out of go to work, that same energy, associated with the thoughts and images of what you have to do that day keep you in bed?
You need to reflect on these things.
But tell me how is getting up from bed equates with LOVE and COMPASSION that you have for yourself and your fellow human beings? You could lay in bed and still have feelings of LOVE and COMPASSION for your fellow man?
YOu are confusing yourself with ths love and compassion talk. I will not address these subjective "names", all EMOTION is energy, no matter what name is slapped on it.
IF1
I have verified that statement time and time again, and this world has no shortage of examples. I am here sharing what I have verified and have been studying intensely for teh past two years in paticular. So when you KNOW, you speak confidently. I am in no way tryin to belittle anyone and you should not try to shade the conversation to make it seem that way. Lets stick to the facts.LT
Previously you said EMOTIONS are animalistic and is lower part of man. Now you agree that EMOTIONS of LOVE and COMPASSION is the HIGHEST PART of man. But only if properly understood! So why say so EMOTIONS are animalistic in the first place?This will require understanding of the tree of life, which we are not directly discussing here. But I will say this , all ENERGY is anamalistic. That which I think you are referring to is above the energy part of being. I will try to elaborate in another post than this one because this is already a long post and I want it to be clear.
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So PEACE in this context is used as a metaphor, not literal.So you are now appealing to metaphor because it suits you?
No, because its truth. There is nothing in the physcial world that is truly STILL, everything vibrates. But the SOURCE of where we come from is STILLNESS, energy/motion is the manifestation.
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There is NOTHING in the illusion of this world that is STILL. Everything vibrates. But EVERYTHING is trying to recapture its original essence, PEACE.Or you can see it differently. PEACE is harmonising yourself with the RESONANT FREQUENCEY of the UNITY of the ONE. So essence of PEACE is harmony with Everything. Time to look into Kabalah again chap. Might give you new insight...
If you really knew Kaballah we wouldnt be having this discussion. That which you call harmony is Chesed, that which is PEACE/STILNESS is the sphere above the Tree, above Kether, which most Jewish desciptions dont show. You can see what I am talking about at the following short description of the Tree of Life. The sphere I am talking about is called "Amen". The sphere you are talking about is Sphere 4 MAAT. You wil find your "harmony" there.
http//www.theafrican.com/Magazine/Cosmo.htm
I am stopping here in an effort to shorten our posts so everyone can easily follow along. If there is anything after this that you really want me to address, please re ask in a future post.
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
IF1
Yes, I understand this perfectly. The reality is that all these differnt names "anger, joy, fear, love, etc" are all just ENERGY. It is ENERGY that is keeping the battered woman there. She calls the energy Love.PM
Now, u r mixing emotions here.No I'm not because I am not giving this "energy" any titles. Thats where it gets mixed up. Energy is energy.
If u say, its the emotion that keeps her there....I might agree......coz fear can keep her there. But its not love.
Ask her what it is and she will say "love". Will you argue with her about such a subjective topic? But when we get objective about it, it is just ENERGY that is keeping here there, no matter what anyone calls this energy.
All emotions are not the same. Fear is not equal to love.
They are both energy. The only difference is that it can be an energy pushing you away from something or attracting you towards something.
No one can feel love for a person who abuses them in any way. So, in her case, its not love that keeps her there. She may say so, just to hide the real truth of her suffering and insecurity from others, especially her loved ones.
I dont want to get into the discussion of these names. It is an energy that is keeping her there and she is being LED by that energy, not her reasoning.
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Hi idolfree1,
I am not giving this "energy" any titles. Thats where it gets mixed up. Energy is energy.
Well, in that case there is no life without energy, is there? ITs that energy that keeps us alive spiritually.
Peace!
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Peace Kyle,
Yes, I used to love pork bacon, extra crispy. I would crumble it up in cheese eggs, or have a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich.
I am just beginning to experience this 'dreadful' yet tasteful delight, but then
I am in the process of becoming vegetarian.
I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself as well, but somehow the mouth watering Korean BBQ, the juicy ribs and steaks and the chicken tikka, shashlic, jalfrazi, the Lahori charga, etc. including the sheesh, sami and chapli kebabs, prevents me from going tipsy-topsy about becoming a vegetarian. I guess I've been spoiled by these entree from childhood up, specially by our professional Bengali cook back then in Pakistan.
Today it is because of health factors coupled with the structure of the human digestive system and tools. But until I do so, I certainly will not go near what seems to be the worst form of meat which is the pig. In regards to the statement of not eating pig's meat in this reading (Koran), I take that as a metaphor for conduct, because there is so much unhealthy food that is not mentioned, that it cant be about whats good and not good to literally eat.
I used to think that pig's meat was bad by its very nature but not anymore and certainly not via the Quran. This has been discussed at length and I wouldn't like to wind up that route unless compelled to do so. Well, I think all edibles (meat, vegetables, fruits, dry-fruits, dairy products) and liquid forms in general, substantiate to a certain degree of "shelf life"; how these edibles are cultivated, processed and tested for consumption as well as its environment and treatment, not to mention individual's health issues plays an important role. That's all.
What impact has pig's meat caused on billions of people today throughout the world that made pig's meat SPECIFICALLY worst of all other animals, not to mention bird's flu and mad cow disease?
Kyle, how do your reason with chocolates, eggs, french fries, cookies, and jello for example, knowing that these are either made or immersed in animal shortings?
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Peace tay,peace and all. Very interesting discussion from peace and tay.
Great post about love tay. I do think that hate and other negative emotions are like illusions which cloud the truer reality which is universal love/compassion. If you have a mindset that you love or have compassion with everything that exists, then you can feel a sense of peace,interconnectedness and 'enlightenment' with all beings. Love doesnt just have to be 'soft' and 'emotional',but can also be rational and mystic.(eg tough love with a drug addict.) I believe whatever emotions come to me i try to convert them into something positive and practical.(love.) Aymans article on the jinn being illusions or fantasies(wishful or irrational thinking.) has great value because it shows us that a good aim is to correct our illusions and instead search for reality.(love,god,nirvana etc..) Idolfrees' concept of salat being 'programming' links into aymans article as the programming is required to correct incorrect responses brought about through illusions and distorted reality.(which over time can lead to harmful conditioning.) I feel programming could also include meditation or contemplation of what thoughts and deeds one is doing,and whether these thoughts and deeds are beneficial or not.(ie reflecting or conscientious living.) I feel this also fits in with 2945. The salat is a way that should help to keep away from indecent deeds,which are just deeds done through illusion,ignorance or irrationality. I believe this salat can be anything that works for the individual and does not have to be restricted solely to physical movements or fixed times/formulas. Results are more important than dogma or fixed formulas. Trial and error are a great learning tool. ) Currently my salat consists of being mindful of the consequences of whatever i do.
Peace all. -
IF1
In the morning, your EMOTIONS will fight you and push you to stay in bed, so you have to IGNORE that ENERGY and go do it anyway.LT
If EMOTIONS is energy why would it push you back into bed?
ENERGY is a property of an object to do work.
The more energy you have the more work you can do.
That is why creative people are more energetic!It seems you are saying anything to protect your understanding. You mean to tell me that I am the only one who has witnessed how your energy can push you out of bed on a day when you have something exciting to do, or maybe it is your day off of work. But when you have to get up to work out of go to work, that same energy, associated with the thoughts and images of what you have to do that day keep you in bed?
I am not protecting anything. I am speaking as I am. Look Kyle - ENERGY is property of an object to do WORK. This is physics chap. If you have lot of energy you do a LOT of work! If you have no ENERGY then no MATTER HOW EXCITED you feel you will not able to JUMP out of bed. Ask any old person -)
YOu are confusing yourself with ths love and compassion talk. I will not address these subjective "names", all EMOTION is energy, no matter what name is slapped on it.
And you are too focused on your responses to pork scratchings wink
There is nothing in the physcial world that is truly STILL, everything vibrates. But the SOURCE of where we come from is STILLNESS, energy/motion is the manifestation.
If ENERGY is neither created or destroyed then that STILLNESS is impossible. The SOURCE you are talking about is PURE ENERGY. And nature of energy is that it is in a state of constant flux. This is science chap...
If you really knew Kaballah we wouldnt be having this discussion.
And if you knew about ENERGY then we wouldnt be having this discussion.
This will require understanding of the tree of life, which we are not directly discussing here. But I will say this , all ENERGY is anamalistic.
Then you are not honest with yourself. One minute you say emotions are animalistic and then next minute you say LOVE and COMPASSION is highest part of man if understood properly.
I rest my case. I shall not pursue any longer on this topic with you.
I am stopping here in an effort to shorten our posts so everyone can easily follow along. If there is anything after this that you really want me to address, please re ask in a future post.
As above...there is nothing for you to address on this thread...
Thanks...Regards,
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
I am not giving this "energy" any titles. Thats where it gets mixed up. Energy is energy.Well, in that case there is no life without energy, is there? ITs that energy that keeps us alive spiritually.
Absolutely! I do not disagree there. What I am saying is that our essential nature is PEACE. The "I" that we are is nothing but absolute PEACE. We are SEERS of the ENERGY of life. That ENERGY is part of what we call SPIRIT, or NAFS. But we do not let these energies direct us, we do the directing. All I am talking about here is the proper order, the proper commander.
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Peace be upon you Danish,
idolfree1 wrote
Yes, I used to love pork bacon, extra crispy. I would crumble it up in cheese eggs, or have a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich.Danish
I am just beginning to experience this 'dreadful' yet tasteful delight, but thenWell, there is no compulsion, although the ENERGY in MOTION will make it FEEL like there is compulsion, but the TRUTH is that we are FREE to choose.
IF1
I am in the process of becoming vegetarian.I have been thinking about this for quite some time myself as well, but somehow the mouth watering Korean BBQ, the juicy ribs and steaks and the chicken tikka, shashlic, jalfrazi, the Lahori charga, etc. including the sheesh, sami and chapli kebabs, prevents me from going tipsy-topsy about becoming a vegetarian. I guess I've been spoiled by these entree from childhood up, specially by our professional Bengali cook back then in Pakistan.
Yes, I understand well. The thoughts and images that come to us bring an energy that PUSHES us towards those things. That blind energy does not care if these things are good or bad for us. But we have the ability to reprogram those thoughts and images, just as many around us have done It is the same for breaking ANY habit, sooner or later, the thoughts and images loose thier power if you continue to ignore them and nurture the correct thoughts and images. If there is anything in your life that you have given up, then you can easily verify that.
IF1
Today it is because of health factors coupled with the structure of the human digestive system and tools. But until I do so, I certainly will not go near what seems to be the worst form of meat which is the pig. In regards to the statement of not eating pig's meat in this reading (Koran), I take that as a metaphor for conduct, because there is so much unhealthy food that is not mentioned, that it cant be about whats good and not good to literally eat.Danish
I used to think that pig's meat was bad by its very nature but not anymore and certainly not via the Quran. This has been discussed at length and I wouldn't like to wind up that route unless compelled to do so. Well, I think all edibles (meat, vegetables, fruits, dry-fruits, dairy products) and liquid forms in general, substantiate to a certain degree of "shelf life"; how these edibles are cultivated, processed and tested for consumption as well as its environment and treatment, not to mention individual's health issues plays an important role. That's all.Respected.
What impact has pig's meat caused on billions of people today throughout the world that made pig's meat SPECIFICALLY worst of all other animals, not to mention bird's flu and mad cow disease?
I agree, I take it as a metaphor for "pig like behavior".
Kyle, how do your reason with chocolates, eggs, french fries, cookies, and jello for example, knowing that these are either made or immersed in animal shortings?
I do not think they are good for you due to the animal fat but more importantly the SUGAR, thats the real killer!
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
Before I begin, let me apologize for the sarcasm I showed in my last post. Please forgive me. I allowed myself to follow the energy that came to me for a moment.
I am not protecting anything. I am speaking as I am. Look Kyle - ENERGY is property of an object to do WORK. This is physics chap. If you have lot of energy you do a LOT of work! If you have no ENERGY then no MATTER HOW EXCITED you feel you will not able to JUMP out of bed. Ask any old person
We have all experienced the phenomena of not wanting to get out of bed because we know we have to go to work, while on a day off, we hop right up. I am asking you now, why is that? What is the difference?
Also, a battery sitting "still" contains plenty of energy.
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There is nothing in the physcial world that is truly STILL, everything vibrates. But the SOURCE of where we come from is STILLNESS, energy/motion is the manifestation.If ENERGY is neither created or destroyed then that STILLNESS is impossible. The SOURCE you are talking about is PURE ENERGY. And nature of energy is that it is in a state of constant flux. This is science chap...
Yes, the SOURCE is energy, but energy at rest. It is the MOTION of the energy that takes the unformed matter and shapes it into forms. That is Science and Kabalah. How does the fact that energy is neither created nor destroyed lead to it not being able to reach a state of rest?
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This will require understanding of the tree of life, which we are not directly discussing here. But I will say this , all ENERGY is anamalistic.Then you are not honest with yourself. One minute you say emotions are animalistic and then next minute you say LOVE and COMPASSION is highest part of man if understood properly.
Emotions are animalistic, and I have not strayed from that understanding at any point. The "Love" I am talking about is an intelligence, not an emotion(dumb, blind animal). Anytime you are COMPELLED to do somoething, even if it is for so called "Love", you are following the animal. Just like the scenario Elena gave earlier.
I rest my case. I shall not pursue any longer on this topic with you.
Respected.