Allah=Love?
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I'd like to add the following thought to this discussion Is God not greater than anything else that can be? If so, does it not automatically mean that all of creation must be part of God?
If God and creation were separate, then God can be greater than creation; however, God cannot be greater than (God+creation) because however small creation is, adding it to God would create something greater than God. This creates a contradition, and therefore God and creation cannot be separate, but all one - that is to say that God encompasses everything uncreated and created. The universe as we know it is just a small part of this whole unity of God, but nevertheless part of it. -
Peace claurianta. Excellent logic. I agree 100%. Great understanding.
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Peace idol-free and all. You wrote 'If we go deep enough into meditation,we get to a point where we are just concious of being conciousness'. I agree,this is also the understanding of some hindu mystics and yogis.(is this conciousness our real self,the permanent part of us,or the soul,or the lowest common denominator of a thing,or all these things?) They also say that conciousness(as a whole) is god and we are a part of that. Everything shares the common characteristic of conciousness,so as the u2 song goes 'we are one but we are not the same'. Do you know anything about the 'there is only one mind' theory of conciousness?(ie god is the one mind and we are thoughts or manifestations of god, or that all is one mind.)
peace. -
If God and creation were separate, then God can be greater than creation; however, God cannot be greater than (God+creation) because however small creation is, adding it to God would create something greater than God. This creates a contradition, and therefore God and creation cannot be separate, but all one - that is to say that God encompasses everything uncreated and created. The universe as we know it is just a small part of this whole unity of God, but nevertheless part of it.
In my understanding, the notion of GOD and Creation being either ONE or Seperate is inconceivable, simply because no one knows WHO or WHAT GOD IS, don't you think? One can only hypothesize to believe in unseen, incomprehensible and tentative grounds, but then, as you mentioned, it would create contradiction and conjecture. By the way, good analysis.
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Interesting topic. There are various ways of looking at it.
For example, some Aborigines in Australia long ago believed that God dreamed all of creation into being, effectively making us and the universe part and parcel of God's mind.
In this way, we are created beings in a created universe while, in reality, being "part" of God, and not outside of Him.
Also, this may be just my opinion but I don't conceptualize God as 'energy' or 'matter' or anything spatio-temporal like that. For those of you who have time, you should look into the Kalam Cosmological Argument for God's existence. It's quite interesting and shows that a universe created with matter, energy, and time must have at its root a Creator who is matter-less, energy-less, and time-less.
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Peace be upon you Enquirer,
Peace idol-free. Interesting analysis,i agree with most of it. How would you define ar-rahman?
I am not decided on many of the meanings of the attributes, for the reason that many who translated them so far give the God human "feelings".
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Hello enquirer,
I like to think that God can only be understood in terms of love because love goes beyond the world of the rational and enters the realm of the spiritual. Love is the true "essence" of all spirituality. But one needs to "exhaust" all rational thinking before one can have an "insight" into the power of love...
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Enquirer,
Yes, I have heard of the One Mind theory. As Elke stated, here is a good read for you or anyone interested. It is called "the Kybalion" and has some excellent points to consider.
http//www.gnostic.org/kybalionhtm/kybalion.htm
Let me know what you think.
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Peace lt,idol-free and all. I agree with you 100% lote-tree,i believe that when we realise that everything that exists connects with its'parts' through love(like a glue.)then we can know how to deal with other people and the environment. The thing is we have to keep remembering this vital connection(love.) and how to use it correctly.(with wisdom,experience and unconditionally.) We have many factors which make us forget this basic universal principle; these include illusion,ego,misdirected emotions,addictions,ignorance etc.. We try to use methods to try to remember the principle of 'universal/unconditional love,and so keep in a relatively peaceful state.(these methods can be salat,contemplation of the world,meditation, good deeds,etc..)I agree, Love is inded the essense of all religion and spirituality. We can transcend our 'limited' intellect by using out intuitive faculties as well. I also think love is energy,and everthing that exists is also energy.So we are love as well.
Idol-free;I read some of the site you posted.It is indeed very interesting,and makes some excellent points regarding the nature of matter/mind,cause and effect,true knowledge,etc etc... I am just a bit unclear about one point. Is the 'all', one seperate mind(ie a grand overseeing all-knowing mind.) or the sum total of all the minds that exist categorised into one mind to show interdependence/similiarity? In other words does the 'all' mind have a seperate existence outside of everthing else? Thanks in advance.
Peace all. -
With our limited understanding, we seem to basically run into a wall, and hence in the end we have to give up our limited mind and recognize the unlimited capabilities of our heart. Yes, we have a logical mind to realize what makes sense and what does not, but there are limits. We cannot determine what God is, and without this we cannot determine the relationship between God and the Qur'an. Hence Qur'an only risks becoming a sort of idol-worship whereby we attach our hearts to a book, instead of attaching our hearts to God. I suppose the best way of saying it is that God is infinite, more than everything put together. As long as we see God as only part of creation - saying that God is the good, shaytan the bad, we are attaching a partner to God. God is the good, God is the bad, but at the same time He is one, and our entire existence is in Him. So don't attach yourself to what is good, and don't attach yourself to what is bad. Attach yourself to the one God and nothing else.
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Peace claurianta. Superb post. !
I would add that God is all that exists,so we should regard the 'all' and not get obsessed with some parts to the exclusion of the other parts. I think we have to clarify what idol-worship really is.
Peace all. -
Hello enquirer,
I agree, Love is inded the essense of all religion and spirituality. We can transcend our 'limited' intellect by using out intuitive faculties as well.
Yes, INTUITION is very important and so is the IMAGINATION. Our REASON is indeed limited and thats why "God" has given us the gift of INTUITION and IMAGINATION. It is these two faculties that allows us to leap beyond logic and attempt to make "sense" of a reality that lies beyond LANGUAGE and REASON.
I also think love is energy,and everthing that exists is also energy. So we are love as well.
Love as "God" Energy as Tay put it. Very much so!
Regards,
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Peace lote-tree and all. Yes,imagination is very important too,
Lt. I forgot that one. ops It Helps us a lot with empathy,with thinking about what happens after physical death,what/who is god,free-will,the soul,quantum physics,humour,role play,making sense of situations past,present and future,what if i had done/do that, etc.... In other words things that are not always easily accessible with 'normal logic' or the 5 'normal' senses.. Thanks for pointing that out. What do you think of ESP,collective conciousness,mediums and clairvoyancy?Please shed some light.(including anybody else.) Thanks in advance. -
I dont know what God is, but I do know what God isnt! And God being a single emotion or a constructed idea of the same, isnt it.
"If you can hold a lecture to a crowd about the Divine, and make everybody leave it knowing and understanding excactly what you where talking about, that will definitively prove that you havent understood a thing. Because no illinformed, ignorant, pea sized brain such as ours can even begin to fathom the nature of God"
-Manley P. Hall (occultist, freemason, and "wise as an owl")
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Peace magi and all. I am not saying just emotional love,but unconditional love.
I believe there is a knowable aspect to god and an unknowable aspect of god... The logic of the mystic...we can connect to the divine,because we are all part of the divine... Only illusion makes us think we are seperate from the 'all'.(god.) I consider love(energy/vibration/motion/desire/awareness/conciousness/reality/will/action/life/soul/spirit.) to be the constituent ingredient in all that exists.
Hope that clarifies my opinion. Peace. -
Peace
I understand your possision. But personally i dont speculate much in what God is, rather in what God would want. I know that God is with all my being, but im aware that my mind is to small to fathom what it is, so my oppinion stand aswell. I agree that God is all that you say God is...and so much more. And trying to "nail it down" is nothing but creating another mental construct that please ourselfes (we feel less insecure when we "know" something), and thus the birth of yet another idol.
Soon people who like your idea will start to draw symbols representing these ideas....and then we all know what happens
Ofcourse this is very much putting it on the edge in a slightly silly way, nevertheless. All discussions about the nature of God is void from the beginning, because how can we know? we cant! And as we cannot observe what you say with our physical senses, i have to shun the idea as being pleasing, but potentially totally wrong.
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Peace magi and all. Brother idol-free stated 'We verify the god by the effects,same way we verify wind.'
Im sure we can all verify the effects of love. Im sure we can verify the effect of the power of ourselves and other entities.
Also its not just the 5 senses which can verify,but intellect,intuition,imagination,the heart,experience,esp, etc.. I think god can be verified partially; otherwise who(or what.) is it that we are supposed to worship/obey and not give a partner too?
Peace. ps;i agree with your point;that it is very important to know what god wants us to do. -
Hello enquirer,
What do you think of ESP,collective conciousness,mediums and clairvoyancy? Please shed some light.(including anybody else.) Thanks in advance.
There is a possibility for all of these things enquirer. Even science these days seems to speak in the language of "mystics", notably the Holographic Principle which states that there is no objective reality and that Universe is intricately interconnected...and there is things like actions at a distance in quantum mechanics, photon entaglement, the Schrodinger's Cat that can both Alive and Dead and Wave/Particle Duality etc...
Reality is very complex enquirer and thats why T.S Eliot wrote "Human beings cannot bear too much reality..."
But as William Wordsworth said all you need is an "wise passiveness"...
In which the burthen of the mystery,
In which the heavy and the weary weight
Of all this unintelligible world,
Is lightened -that serene and blessed mood,
In which the affections gently lead us on -
Until, the breath of this corporeal frame
And even the motion of our human blood
Almost suspended, we are laid asleep
In body, and become a living soul;
While with an eye made quiet by the power
Of harmony, and the deep power of joy,
We see into the life of things.Regards,
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Peace enquirer,
Your motto states,
'My religion is trying to love unconditionally'.
how do you reconcile this with the following?
Allah loves those who act aright
Allah loveth not such as are proud and boastful