help me!
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peace nabi. Im not pushing,its my opinion. Peace.
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Peace nabi. Ok,educate me and the forum as to what this golden rule means and how its not present in islam. But i would say be careful,i think your doing a disservice to the reading,and you are disparaging someones opinion while elevating your own to the realm of 'fact' with no evidence of your own.
Peace. -
Peace
Educate yourself. I'm no teacher. The axiom you presented is not the same as do good to others. It's a nice thought, but in real life it is not reliable just as Gandhi's ideas on ahimsa were not practical. It is not practical because according to it you can only love another so much as you love yourself. It's not the same as being good to your neighbor by spending for their good, or by watching over the property and well-being of an orphan or your children or keeping one's parents under one's wing.
Joe
P.S. In my opinion you're doing a disservice to yourself by lying to yourself.
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peace nabi. In my opinion it is love that causes me to look after my neigbour,children,parents,orphans etc.. Anyway we will agree to disagree.
I think this is just a difference of semantics. And the general rule works for me in practical life. D Take it easy. -
peace nabi. You are misunderstanding my opinion of the golden rule. I stated earlier that it assumes you love yourself(as least to some extent.)and you love other persons to the maximum extent that you can,and its a continous learning process.(including loving oneself.) If someone has no love or respect for himself, its our job to help them with love and wisdom to learn to love himself and others.(as much as they can.)
If you want substitute love for respect/justice,/helping others if it is more comfortable to you to that way.
Peace. -
Dear Edip,
When is the Reformist Translation going to be available?
Thanks!
Abe
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peace
enquirer, i understand where you're coming from, but i agree with Joe on this one. Even if I do love myself more than anything else, that means i can only 'love' my neighbor as much as myself, and nothing more. And how am i supposed to love my neighbor if i don't even know him/her? is loving the same as doing good?
But i don't think this is really something to argue over. I think everyone get's the point. -
Peace phoenix and all. Sometimes we use different terms or words to explain a similiar reality. If i use love and someone else uses respect/helping people/doing good,thats totally fine by me. I was under the impression that we are supposed to love(or respect or help.) the believers and the prophet...Arent the prophet and some of the believers in the umma(community.) strangers to us? So you are saying we cannot love strangers?(some of my nephews and nieces born in pakistan i have never seen,they are strangers,but i still love/respect/try to help them.) Like i said change the word love to respect if you wish.Im not talking about romantic,conditional,excessively emotional love. All this taking of the words of the golden rule to pieces is very strange,its the spirit of the law not the literal words. Some people express it differently eg; 'do unto others as you would do unto yourself'. or 'do not do unto others as you would not want done to yourself.' Etc.. If somebody loves to abuse their body with drugs(a misuse of love,illusionary love,misplaced love.) then common sense would dictate that they should not love other people by supplying them with drugs. And when it says 'as you love yourself',this is a relative term. (just as the quran says 'if they believe similiaraily as you believe then they are guided',2;127,Note the word mithl used in arabic,meaning-similiarly.) So 'as you love yourself' is a relative and similiar term,it may not demand absolute literal exactness.(the point is you should love/respect yourself and others unconditionally and decently,not in a mathematical,empty,tit for tat kind of way.) We all have limitations,can you and nabi do more than you are capable off when helping people? If not,does that mean helping people has a flaw in it? Of course not! I would try to help people the best i can,given my limitations.(same with love.) This discussion really highlights the problem with some peoples attitudes to anything that impinges or challenges their beliefs..They seemingly get defensive,impolite and biased.(im not referring to you phoenix ) .) Take a leaf from idol-frees book,try to be objective and not let emotions cloud our judgements.
The discussion got prolonged.. i said 'lets agree to disagree' but nabis insistence seemed to be to carry on,i tried to be polite by replying and trying to explain my opinion. Anyway peace to all and may we all be humble,receptive,understanding,tolerant,respectful and open-minded in our discussions. ) -
Peace all. Maybe i can make myself clearer by saying that i think that love=;'a yearning to do the right thing'.(to self and others.)
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Maybe, only maybe, this will help
The Bible defines love this way...1 Corinthians 134-8a (New American Standard Version)
"Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into acccount a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."
But may I start with the first verse in the chapter...."If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, if profits me nothing."
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Maybe, only maybe, this will help
The Bible defines love this way...1 Corinthians 134-8a (New American Standard Version)
"Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into acccount a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."
But may I start with the first verse in the chapter...."If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, if profits me nothing."
The Quran, bible, talmud, zabur, dalai lama, gita and zillion other books (both spiritual and non-spiritual including magazines, story books, movies, etc.) by various authors/directors professes the same, perhaps not exactly in ditto. That does not by any means make bible superior to other books and/or movies. Bible (comprised of various versions of testaments into one, to say the least) by Paul, Mathew, John and Luke are rather degraded and debunked versions of the original true Gospel (Injeel), also written by men and not by Jesus himself. All religious books are manifestations written by men and come to think of it, the bible being the worst of all religious books in composure, literacy, consistency and above all spirituality/guidance (perhaps due to its English translation of Aramaic and as well as mutiple authors), very similar to ahadiths.
New American Standard Version is just a Christian knack, a "chilli-fest" of belief.. Universal love existed long before even Amercia existed. I'll bet down to my last $ to prove that the "New American Standard Version" is any better than that of the "orthodox one".
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Peace jquader20.
Welcome to the forum.
Bro zenje wrote
And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and Say ?TO US ARE OUR DEEDS, AND TO YOU IS YOUR DEEDS. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.? (2855)
I would like to quote this verse
Whoso doeth right, it is for his soul, and whoso doeth wrong, it is against it. And afterward unto your Lord ye will be brought back.
Relax pal and as bro bmbmm said ?lots of crazy people out there we cant make others think like us and they can?t make us think like them. Peace to them who ever they are.
Peace.
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Peace Agentxxx. I like your definition of; love=care for...Excellent!
I believe a big part of loving yourself(taking care of yourself.) involves loving others.(taking care of others.) You can learn to take care of yourself by taking care of others. D
Peace all.