WHO HERE ARE THE ALLAH/QUR-AN ONLY PEOPLE...?
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peace jhamza and all. I agree with the literal translation of; 'do not kill',definately. However other verses are more open to doubtful/multiple interpretations and 3;7 states this in the quran. The definition of polytheist or rejector etc..is i believe wrongly interpreted,some people would be called rejector if they believed that salat was not solely physical or hajj was not to mecca,etc..And seems to me that some believe an idolator is someone who does not follow their opinion of what constitutes belief.(see 4;94.) Years ago i started on sunni methodology,as soon as i read the quran and thought the quran was sufficient without hadith i was labelled a disbeliever/blasphemer.(i am not on quran only methodology now,i would say god only methodology now.)people should check before branding people. Anyway all people are still my brothers and sisters regardless of what they assume my beliefs constitute. Peace to all in our quests for true knowledge.
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Peace claurianta and all. I agree with a lot of your post.We should not idolise the quran.However to say that you can only be 'god only' if you do not need any scripture may be misinterpreted by some. The message of the Scriptures does not have to be written or read,but can be seen in ones' own experience and the signs in nature.Scriptures can act like a kickstart or map on their journey for some.Some maybe do not need it because the whole of nature/existence is one big scripture. ) I dont feel we have to ignore scripture or idolise it,but we can get knowledge from anywhere. Nabis' interpretation of his own methodology seems to suggest that god speaks in the quran and in other sources too,so this is technically like god alone. Finally i would clarify that i believe 'god only' can be a misleading term,because god is all,so can we say 'god only'?Thats an oxymoron. I believe god only is another term for saying you will take knowledge from all sources(within your grasp.)with an open mind.In other words a mystic methodology. I believe that everyone has their own journey to the truth(within their own intellectual understanding.),and we should try to be open,tolerant,receptive to fresh perspectives,understanding of each others viewpoints,unbiased,and help each other in our journey,not label,divide and belittle.
Peace all. -
.Scriptures can act like a kickstart or map on their journey for some.
Exactly... that's what I meant by getting beyond needing the Qur'an. The bigger one's ego, the more one needs the Qur'an, because one can't discern the inner guidance of God over the misguidance of the ego. However, if we use the Qur'anic methodology (or that found in any authentic scripture - remember God said that there is nothing new in the Qur'an), we can work at diminishing this ego to such an extent that we can discern God's inner guidance. And then we can follow that inner guidance, without needing a book. That's why I referred to Abraham. He was guided by God directly, and that is the kind of relationship with God we should strive for. That I believe is true Islam... submitting oneself not to a message, but to God Himself. By submitting oneself to the message one is making the message a partner of God.
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Peace claurianta. Im glad that was clarified. Absolutely superb post. !
I just disagree with the bigger ones ego bit(it sounds a bit harsh also.),we have to remember people have different needs and requirements as they proceed in life,so at times peole need to go through reading scriptures a lot,as long as they dont idolise the reading/scriptures totally.Please be gentle and patient on people less enlightened than yourself,you may have been like them in your earlier understandings! Think back to how you felt then when struggling to find the truth... But the rest of the post i agree with.
Peace all. -
Peace claurianta. Im glad that was clarified. Absolutely superb post. !
I just disagree with the bigger ones ego bit(it sounds a bit harsh also.),we have to remember people have different needs and requirements as they proceed in life,so at times peole need to go through reading scriptures a lot,as long as they dont idolise the reading/scriptures totally.Please be gentle and patient on people less enlightened than yourself,you may have been like them in your earlier understandings! Think back to how you felt then when struggling to find the truth... But the rest of the post i agree with.
Peace all.Sorry, I didn't mean to say that the only reason one would need the Qur'an more is a big ego. I'm just saying that all other things being equal, someone with a bigger ego needs the Qur'an's guidance more than someone who has already managed to diminish his ego. There are also other reasons for reading the Qur'an, one of which is clearly stated therein - to confirm that which we already know to be true.
So bigger ego means need more Qur'an, but need more Qur'an doesn't necessarily mean bigger ego. -
Peace claurianta and all. Now i get you! Good analysis.
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Peace be with you claurianta and all,
The bigger one's ego, the more one needs the Qur'an, because one can't discern the inner guidance of God over the misguidance of the ego.
So needing quran is having a big ego? ? You totally lost me on that one. Unless we have different understanding on the word ego... infact I think NOT needing quran is having a huge ego. )... submitting oneself not to a message, but to God Himself. By submitting oneself to the message one is making the message a partner of God.
I'm not sure if you believe that quran is words of God, but for those that do, how is following God's words associating a partner with God? I don't consider those the 'only' signs/ayat of the God, but they are God's signs without a doubt.Scriptures can act like a kickstart or map on their journey for some.
Scriptures are reminders, we are forgetful creatures after all. ))>-
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So needing quran is having a big ego? ? You totally lost me on that one. Unless we have different understanding on the word ego... infact I think NOT needing quran is having a huge ego.
Peace zenje,
Please see my last post replying to enquirer. The relationship I was talking of is only one way. Bigger ego -> need Qur'an more. There are a bunch of other reasons why someone would need the Qur'an more, so while having a bigger ego automatically means you need the Qur'an more, needing the Qur'an more DOES NOT mean you have a bigger ego. So I am NOT saying "need Qur'an more -> bigger ego", but rather "bigger ego -> need Qur'an more".
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Peace be with you claurianta and all,
The bigger one's ego, the more one needs the Qur'an, because one can't discern the inner guidance of God over the misguidance of the ego.
So needing quran is having a big ego? ? You totally lost me on that one. Unless we have different understanding on the word ego... infact I think NOT needing quran is having a huge ego. )Bro, this is exactly what i was going to say indeed, people with ego will regfuse to listen to the Quran, hence they don't need it
Peace
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I guess all people in any country submit to any human law in place, that law is also written in a book, would that make all humans mishrikoon?
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Bro, this is exactly what i was going to say indeed, people with ego will regfuse to listen to the Quran, hence they don't need it
Peace
I didn't say that they would feel that they would need it, but rather that they would need it in order to bust up their huge egos and to get closer to God. There's a lot of people who refuse to do what's good for themselves and others because of their egos, and getting closer to God is unfortunately one of those things. Having a big ego is the root of all idolatry, because such a person thinks HE is the one who knows what's right and what's wrong, instead of following God's guidance, be it through the Qur'an or otherwise.
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Peace claurianta and all. I think claurianta is being misunderstood here.
I think he is saying people with a bigger ego(ego=conceited or self centred/opinionated.) will use the quran in an effort to justify their own ego/opinions with less concern for the actual truth,or the real meanings of the quran. He also stated that if one reads a lot of the quran does not necessarily mean one has a big ego. He stated that some with big egos read the quran a lot. I think the point was not to make the quran as an idol,use it as a source of knowledge/reminder,but also use other sources especially your connection with the divine through your inner intellect/ conscience.(which abraham may have done.)
Of course its not shirk if you read the quran or follow certain laws,but it can be if you think this is the only source of gods knowledge/laws,and get emotionally attached and biased towards it. (and as a result oppress yourself/others with harmful/illogical interpretations of it.)Peace all. ps;claurianta,i hope you dont mind me trying to clarify this topic. -
I am a believer.
Peace
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Bro, this is exactly what i was going to say indeed, people with ego will regfuse to listen to the Quran, hence they don't need it
Peace
I didn't say that they would feel that they would need it, but rather that they would need it in order to bust up their huge egos and to get closer to God. There's a lot of people who refuse to do what's good for themselves and others because of their egos, and getting closer to God is unfortunately one of those things. Having a big ego is the root of all idolatry, because such a person thinks HE is the one who knows what's right and what's wrong, instead of following God's guidance, be it through the Qur'an or otherwise.
Ok mate, I agree but I hope their huge ego will not overcome the need for the Quran for true guidance and prosperity in this life and after
peace