Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Salam Saladin,
But do we need to worship or to serve. To serve it makes more sense, as to worship is ritualistic. And 5x a day facing a cube I can see is total ritual and not serving God. So if one is not serving God one in a ritual like all other ritual mongers are worshiping idol.
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The contact prayer is a spritual practice, as an Ascent toward the UNLIMITED.
-you want to make it 5x or 3x or 1x . I do not see any problem in it.Cube is the reminder of ABRAHAM and his journey of faith. It is the place where HAJAR is buried. It is only a historical reminder of the path.
I believe that if I pray with my back toward Kabaa, it would be OK.
I sometimes do my prayers in the Metro while sitting with my eyes closed.
or When the birds start singing with sunrise, I pray with them.
A PRAYER IS A TOOL. LIKE TOOLS THAT A CARPENTER USES TO MAKE SOMETHING. BY USING THOSE TOOLS YOU WILL NOT BECOME A CARPENTER. IT IS SENSELESS TO PLAY WITH THEM WITH THE ILLUSION OF BEING A CARPENTER. FIRST BECOME A CARPENTER, THE NEED FOR THE TOOL WILL ARISE BY ITSELF.
peace
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Easy bmbmm. How are things doctor?(pbuh. ) ) I think that as alpha97 pointed out,the procedure does not always matter.Its the purpose and effect that counts more. If someone wants to pray towards a cube or go to hajj thats fine by me.As long as the 'ritual' does not cause harm to themselves or others. The purpose of salat is to prevent you from indecent deeds.If praying 5 times towards the quibla works in this respect,for a paticular person i would recommend that for that person. There can be other methods and alternatives such as study,meditation,trying to control your emotions etc.. But different methods work better or worse for different people. I think everbody can come to find their own form of salat or a salat that works best for them. One method of salat i use is thinking about the consequences of my behaviour on other people. I think salat is just an umbrella/general term for thinking deeply/studying/meditating with a view to improving behaviour. As for parents and other people following these prayers,i dont think they will go to hell just for doing them,it depends on their intention and what their behaviour is like. I would recommend to concentrate on the common beliefs you and the people who pray physically have,rather than the different methods we use to get closer to god.(reality.)
Peace all. -
peace
where is it commanded?
We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do.
*2149 A glaring proof of the idolatry committed by today's "Muslims" is the designation of Muhammad's tomb as a "Sacred Masjid." The Quran mentions only one "Sacred Masjid."Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces(during Salat) towards it. Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
Righteousness Defined
Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the FACE of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.
But It's the intention that counts, the Lord of the universe knows what's in our hearts and what our true intentions are. And remember God wants all of us to unite
GOD loves those who fight in His cause united in one column, like the bricks in one wall.
IMO it has nothing to do w/ the physical nature, but the united nature of all of us. Just like ablution, it's just a test, can you follow simple directions from your Lord? peace !
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peace
IMO the many purposes of Salat are as follows
-Remember God, In Moses' conversation w/ God, God tells Moses to observe Salat to remmeber him
"I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.
- In the same context, you are thanking the Lord for everything he has provided for you
You shall remember Me, that I may remember you, and be thankful to Me; do not be unappreciative.
- As a source of credits, remember anything God asks us to do, it's for our own good.
-It's a good physical exercise
But remember always
Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.
As long as you follow that rule, everything will be fine
peace
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peace
where is it commanded?
We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do.
Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid. This is the truth from your Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything you all do.
*2149 A glaring proof of the idolatry committed by today's "Muslims" is the designation of Muhammad's tomb as a "Sacred Masjid." The Quran mentions only one "Sacred Masjid."Wherever you go, you shall turn your face (during Salat) towards the Sacred Masjid; wherever you might be, you shall turn your faces(during Salat) towards it. Thus, the people will have no argument against you, except the transgressors among them. Do not fear them, and fear Me instead. I will then perfect My blessings upon you, that you may be guided.
Righteousness Defined
Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the FACE of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.
But It's the intention that counts, the Lord of the universe knows what's in our hearts and what our true intentions are. And remember God wants all of us to unite
GOD loves those who fight in His cause united in one column, like the bricks in one wall.
IMO it has nothing to do w/ the physical nature, but the united nature of all of us. Just like ablution, it's just a test, can you follow simple directions from your Lord? peace !
Good posting bro
Thanks
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Salam Saladin,
But do we need to worship or to serve. To serve it makes more sense, as to worship is ritualistic. And 5x a day facing a cube I can see is total ritual and not serving God. So if one is not serving God one in a ritual like all other ritual mongers are worshiping idol.
salam .
worshipping/praising/glorifying Allah is part of the service .they would be worshipping the kaaba only if they praise or glorify the kaaba instead of Allah . but they dont glorify or praise the kaaba . so that is not idolatry .
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Salam Saladin,
But do we need to worship or to serve. To serve it makes more sense, as to worship is ritualistic. And 5x a day facing a cube I can see is total ritual and not serving God. So if one is not serving God one in a ritual like all other ritual mongers are worshiping idol.
salam .
worshipping/praising/glorifying Allah is part of the service .they would be worshipping the kaaba only if they praise or glorify the kaaba instead of Allah . but they dont glorify or praise the kaaba . so that is not idolatry .
I completely agree. And you are welcome AhmedBahgat
peace
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Peace,
Cube (KABAA) and its history
Read and see how beautiful the story of this focal point of path is.
A book to read in silence so that you can hear your own heartbeats.
http//www.shariati.com/HAJJ2.html
peace
Peace bro,
So is it the Kabba or the Masjid-al-haram the focal point?
Kabba mean ankle and masjid-al-haram is restriction in submission. where is the focal point?
Please eleborate your view.
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Easy bmbmm. How are things doctor?(pbuh. ) ) I think that as alpha97 pointed out,the procedure does not always matter.Its the purpose and effect that counts more. If someone wants to pray towards a cube or go to hajj thats fine by me.As long as the 'ritual' does not cause harm to themselves or others. The purpose of salat is to prevent you from indecent deeds.If praying 5 times towards the quibla works in this respect,for a paticular person i would recommend that for that person. There can be other methods and alternatives such as study,meditation,trying to control your emotions etc.. But different methods work better or worse for different people. I think everbody can come to find their own form of salat or a salat that works best for them. One method of salat i use is thinking about the consequences of my behaviour on other people. I think salat is just an umbrella/general term for thinking deeply/studying/meditating with a view to improving behaviour. As for parents and other people following these prayers,i dont think they will go to hell just for doing them,it depends on their intention and what their behaviour is like. I would recommend to concentrate on the common beliefs you and the people who pray physically have,rather than the different methods we use to get closer to god.(reality.)
Peace all.Peace eq. I do not think its fine at all. Millions are praying to the stones (worshiping to be more correct). The result of this is nothing is being achieved. No commitments but worship (wasting time). I think this is important because from being most advance and knowledgeble muslim are just like dust nowadays.
What do you think?
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Peace bmbmm. I understand your comments about the progress of the umma being in decline. But this is not necessarily because of the physical prayers.
This decline could be because the purpose of the salat has become like a ritual to some. Salat should produce a mind that is rational and tries to understand reality.It should also lead to beneficial behaviour. Some peole have taken salat as just an empty 'holy ritual' in itself,while forgetting its purpose.(better awareness and behaviour.) So i feel its not neceassarily the physical aspect that is incorrect,but more the purpose of some peoples salat that is incorrect. A scientist can pray 5 times a day,and for him it may help him to meditate and connect with god(reality.),if he does it correctly then his scientific prowess could increase because he could be more relaxed and in tune with reality. Salat should lead to commitment to progress. I dont think its idol-worship unless it leads to very illogical/ very harmful behaviour.
Peace all. -
peace.
Peace eq. I do not think its fine at all. Millions are praying to the stones
which prayer exactly is directed towards the kaaba ?
(worshiping to be more correct). The result of this is nothing is being achieved. No commitments but worship (wasting time). I think this is important because from being most advance and knowledgeble muslim are just like dust nowadays.
so nowadays praising Allah is a wastage of time ?!
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the direction you are praying is not haram, now if you go and pray in the cube it would be i believe, I dont go in sunni mosques, because they are not devoted to God ALONE as they should be. But those are 2 different things praying in a direction and actually praying to the cube. Praying to the cube would be, your intention is 'i am praying to the cube' than it can still be idol-worship at home. But if your intentions are about praying to the Lord then you are not praying 'to the cube'.
peace
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Peace,
First Faith then prayer.
It Does not help even if trillions pray.
PRAYER BRINGS NO FAITHFULL! It never has and it never will.
FAITHFULL BRINGS PRAYER! It is utterance of love toward the UNLIMITED, in faith , in action, in contact-prayer.About the cube, first read the book that I referred to.
Cube is the historical connection of many generations of faithfulls starting with ABRAHAM and those who followed the path of oneness.
peace -
Hello
Kaab means ankle ,
Kaaba means Kaaba , and is a name of something, like my name and your name
the two words are totally different, the first is mascular and the second is feminine
Cheers
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Salaam,
I myself has defended the Kaaba and the traditional view of the qibla, i had many and many discussions about it with Ayman on 19.org. I even found a whole history on buildings like the Kaaba, that you can read on 19.org.
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/5479/0/
But i told Ayman in our first discussions with his article how it came to this also on 19.org that no history or archeology can prove us right or wrong, only the Quran can. And the Quran proved me wrong, our concept of Salat in the traditional sense is not correct, the Quran of God doesn't refer directly to prayer as we think. People we say we follow the Quran of God alone, but we are still carrying the sunni-ways without knowing. As Ayman shows in his article what's in the name, that we can jump and twist, but it is the Quran of God that explains the meaning of Salat, not any history or dictionary.
Ahmed Ali on the meaning of Salat
Salat as As-sala meant middle of the back, a horse that is second in a race, and as salia-wastala dependence, adherence, attachment. In the Quran salat acquired the conceptual meanings of devotion, adherence to God and His commands, fulfilling one?s duties and obligations as behoves an ?abd, creature, servant, devotee of God, as integral part of ?ubudiyat, servitude and devotion, made clear in 2441 which underlines that every creature in the heavens and the earth knows its salat, duties and obligations.
The Quran, thus, brings to the mind its real objects from words by invoking the images imbedded in the subconcious. For though the words remain the same, they often acquire new conceptual meanings and new dimensions lying hidden in their roots, which are brought out by the Quran, and now form part of its linguistic and intellectual dynamism. At the same time they become removed from the Jahiliya which was more of an attitude of mind and culture than a state of ignorance, as well as the later world as unfolded by the changing patterns of history, thought and language, so that anyone interpreting the Quran on the basis as used by Arabs today would only misled the readers of the Book.
It is about what the Quran gives as examples, and we can only look it from the Arabic point of view, no translation will show you the right meaning, except when it uses crossreference as showing examples. Also this can make people wrong conclusions. But i also went through a long line of adapting, my mind wasn't ready yet for the truth. I went from 5 prayers, to 3, then doubting if it shouldn't be 2, then after reading Ayman's article, i saw what he meant. What he saw the Quran tells us. I don't agree with Ayman on his view of 19, but i also disagree with most people who believe in 19 on how and why it is there, for me it is only an alarm system, nothing more and nothing less, and that Rashad had so many things wrong doesn't say nothing on 19 itself. Just like the Quran of God is seperate from Muhammed, so is 19 discovery loose from the discoverer. Ayman did wrong, what i did wrong with the discussion on "the Kaaba", he brought in history and outside information, instead on focussing what is really inside the Quran of God.
But on the Salat issue i believe Ayman has hit the spot, so if people want to discuss about Salat, then try to discuss Ayman's article, if you want to prove you're right or wrong, see if you agree with Ayman or refute him, but then you have to show proof. I still believe in prayer and i meditate a lot, but my only direction is towards God, no landmark. And i do it when i need or want it, and how i want it. This is logical from a scientist, realist, philosophical and free thinking mind. From a mind that believes God doesn't need anything and wouldn't demand anything that doesn't directly help you or can't be defined by logical and rational thinking, and God shows prayer is not limited to some times a day, and the use of the word Salat inside the Quran of God shows it doesn't mean a 'special'prayer. That is it what it is all about, so all our concepts of 'we need salat', first check then what Salat is.
But this is what the Quran of God explains it self. It doesn't need me or Ayman. We have to remember that all of our words we use in daily lives, are programmed in to our brain from day 1. In most countries, the word succes means, good job, wife, 2 kids, 2 cars, 2 times a year on holiday. When it rained, your parents looked outside, and said it is bad weather, so from there on, the concept 'rain' and 'bad' are connected forever inside your subconciousness, until you realise you never judged rain yourself, it was already judged for you. Our concept of 'fun' is determined by your culture, for example in Holland, 'fun' is getting drunk and don't rememberring the next day what happened, and hearing from your friends that you walked on the bar and puked on the bouncer, and then everybody laughs. this concept of 'fun', wasn't really by choice, it is something you get drawn into. A drug becomes normal, when it is accepted by your surroundings. Smoking was normal 10 years ago, so the concept of 'smoking' didn't had a 'wrong' feeling, no it is a taboo. We get programmed by our surroundings, we are thaught what prayer is, what words mean, what the concepts are behind it. This also applies to the concept 'salat', 'islam','deen','hajj', and so on.
We were programmed what it should mean, and even though we know we can only accept the Quran of God as guide, we still kept the traditional concept of Salat, so we looked for that concept that we were thaught in this world, instead of looking what the Quran of God says what the concept is, how God means what the concept is. We are obliged to drop our pre-programmed concept of rain is bad, salat is prayer, and see what rains means to us, what the Quran of God says what God Himself means with Salat.
This discussion is futile, till everybody understands this. We can twist and turn what we want, but we are only fighting the Quran of God then. Read the article of Ayman yourself, and see the differences between our pre-programmed concepts and the concepts given to us by God.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Let God programme our concepts, that is really Islam......
This what God tries to tell us with His Quran, to re-programme our concepts of freedom, law, equality, status, truth, faith, obligations, society structure, rights, behaviour, our concepts of afterlife and death, magic, spirits and so on. This is Islam, dropping our pre-programmed concepts and refreshing our subconciousness witht the real concepts. Most of our concepts are filled in by previous dogma's and doctrines of ancient times, most rituals were 're-programmed' by the elite and clergy, and replaced it, and by thus hiding or loosing the original concepts God tried to show us. Hell is living a lie, not a furnice in the afterlife...........
Peace
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peace arnoldyasin. I agree almost totally with your excellent post...But,i believe its not just the quran we should refer to. Reality(God.) is the true guide. Our concepts can be overturned and corrected by reality,(God.) which is not limited to just the quran. Does not god speak and verify to us through nature,conscience and mediums outside scripture?
peace all. -
Yes, i only talk about the things that are discussed/given in the Quran of God. Those concepts must be explained by the Quran of God itself, just like i said, judge rain yourself, that is a concept you will not find in the Quran of God, but only will find in Nature. I never said anything about those concepts you mention to be found only in the Quran of God, i only refer to our concepts that are mentioned inside the Quran.
So i believe you 'filled' in what you believe i said yourself wink .
The Quran of God only explains the concepts it mentions, all the rest is for us to explore........
Peace
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Peace arnold
please be aware, I only responded to the argument regarding Kaab and Kaaba from the language point of view, to be honest bro I read all what Ayman wrote just for curoisity, but the whole subject does npot concern me the slightest because when I perform Salat I only do it for Allah, i never thought of the Kaaba once while performing salat for all the years i can remember
if the Kaaba now days is fake, i'm sure the Quran would have mentioned it,"or at least indirectly" and all the evidences from the Quran strongly suggest that it is not a fake, what I can agree that is fake is the many hadith about the prophet, other than this bro the Quran alone people has been refuted fairly and squarly using the Quran and they never responded with a convencing reply, the argument against them is clearly the prophet was not only a delivery man and even if he was, what he was delivering never mentioned explicitly as the Quran only, in fact there are many verses that clearly say the prophet had other explanations to do
peace mate