Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Thanks eq and arnoldyasin. Really a good post. To want to clerify further, I understand that facing something as a direction does not mean one is worshiping/serve an idol or one really is, or the worshipers does not even know. Also what are is the impact to the entire Umah? Please think about the whole Umah not just yourself who prays 5x. As an umah we have faild! Also see atricles on the front page of Free-minds.org
An interesting fact is God command us to serve not to worship. For us to serve we have to focus on masjid-al-haram the restrictions within the system. Because when we focus on these we are setting up a balance/harmony within the system (the yen-yang, the Tao's, Buddist Confucious (pbuh lol ), igologies and following the Quran). Just facing and praying 5x a day this (serving God here on earth is not being achived), as we can see our state today million are rushing to hajj for what? Billion are worshiping/praying 5x in one direction but for what? One can't face a point on the globe anyway, as there isn't one! Also in the masjid-al-haram there are signs of Abrahim, that he only serve one God (the main one), yet if one looks at the man-made structure around the cube there are no signs there (how can there be signs in the structure)? It funny they have put foot prints of Abrahim there.
Hence facing a point (which is not a point as the earth is not flat!) praying/worshiping 5x a day, going to hajj, kissing the black stone, spinning around the cube, thinking that all sins are forgiven is clearly wrong. This worshiping/praying rituals have given a false confidence to the majority of the muslims. They think that this is their utmost duty, however just SERVING God by paying attention to the haram things in submission will change and improve our existance.
Peace
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Peace,
I understand both of you, and i agree with both you to a certain level, but i also stay in the middle, and AB, if you investigate more on why and and how rituals developed in societies, you would understand me the concepts were copied from each other, not the truths, but also prove then Ayman is wrong on this, you say the Quran says something, show it please....
Peace
Yes bro i did a lot of investigation and reading on how ritusals devevloped and affected socities, i can see this in every cultural and every religion, in many cases it is clear corruption, but the truth will always shine bro, i mean it will be easy to find but only for those whom Allah will remove the veil that is covering them then guide them to that truth, ironically many conflicting opinions think that they are the ones who are truly guided therefore the best and only Judge must be Allah, i guess everyone of us is sort of taking a gamble, many have good reasons to go in a direction and others have absolutely no merit to go with another direction, at the end of the day it is one hell of a tough test for all of us, I always say it this way, the toughest thing in life MUST be the belief, because i don't think that Allah has created all these things that we see or not just to serve the purpose of that test unless it is a damn hard test, therefore the safest bet for me must be following the Quran as literal as possible unless it states or clearly understood otherwise, this way I may have a strong defence argument "if allowed" in the judgment day, because what I followed was what it said as literal as possible, and that is what most words in any language should be taken and understood unless we are playing some dsort of puzzles and only the ones with high IQ will win, which does not sound fair neither equal
a simple example is this, if i want any one not to smoke in my car, i will tell that person "please do not smoke in the car" and I will be serious about it, this is how I see Allah is talking to us in the Quran brother, no tricks and no games, and if there is any, it will be very few verses "Mutashabihat" just to serve the purpose of testing that apply for both the believers and the unbelievers equally, see how the test is tough?, even we are tested in the belief in the Quran
peace mate
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Hello All
to Suggest that Al Masjid Al Haram is haram things in submission is basless and has no ground indeed, and surely sounds funny as well, sorry lol
Cheers
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Salaam,
Yes, AB, i also used to think like this, and i recommend read more wink
No, i understand you perfectly, it is indeed hard, is this symbolic or literral? But still then, is mine concept of this literal subject pre-programmed or do i have a clear judgement on it? These are sometimes hard questions. And i believe in time we will understand more Godwilling.
But AB, i am a scientist and a theologist, if you refute something, saying it sounds funny is not enough........proof please proof...........Otherwise you act just like Oneway.....
And bmbmm, i agree, The Quran of God is not just a 'religious' Book, it is a way to perfect societies. When we investigate concepts as given in the Quran of God, we see it is indeed a ?omplete' Book on subjects we need advise on. But letting go of the pre-programmed concepts is the hardest thing in life. Nothing tests you more then letting go of pre-programmed concepts, i have seen this in human history, look at how long the church held on the earth is flat theory and the earth is center of universe theory, you can see it in science with intelligent design or not. Most debates are not about truths, but about if people are able to see it is about reprogramming your view. i have seen in my own life also, i have been the most stubborn person in certain pre-programmed concepts, now i am finaly reprogramming myself with being open, using the Quran of God and other information. Balanced conviction and open mind are bridges to higher selfs, bridges to God...
So i never judge anybody on their beliefs, everybody is in their own fase of understanding....
Peace -
Hello All
to Suggest that Al Masjid Al Haram is haram things in submission is basless and has no ground indeed, and surely sounds funny as well, sorry lol
Cheers
Salam Ahmed,
Saying that its a mosque (building) around the cube doesn't hold any water either.
The structures built, nowadays called mosques were built for worldly knowledge and discussions. Nowadays a twist from serving God to worhiping him has turned these into monastic-monastries or temples, like all other religions (not the Dinn) does. Its stanage that people go there follow a man and do exercise in a language that they don't even know, although it is memorised by some.
Ahmed if you say masjid-al-haram is a mosques there was no such a building at the time of Mohammed, which is a historical fact. If its something to be focued into why a masjid (strucure) rather than the cube?
What signs of Abrahim are there according to your understanding?I think we should critically with an openmind analyse the Reading, rather than following the pagan-Arabs understanding of the Arabic of times passed by, before and after the revelation to Mohammed.
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Salaam,
Yes, AB, i also used to think like this, and i recommend read more wink
No, i understand you perfectly, it is indeed hard, is this symbolic or literral? But still then, is mine concept of this literal subject pre-programmed or do i have a clear judgement on it? These are sometimes hard questions. And i believe in time we will understand more Godwilling.
But AB, i am a scientist and a theologist, if you refute something, saying it sounds funny is not enough........proof please proof...........Otherwise you act just like Oneway.....
Peace
Peace Arnold
Bro i don't act like anyone but myself, and I responded to this masjid silly argument and was refuted fair and square some time ago and sure no one responded to it, for me to keep posting it will just sound as funny as the argument itself, but i will give it one more go for your sake, and btw i only talk by the arabic quran, no hadith no crap
good to know that you are a scientist, on the other hand I'm a Civil Structural Engineer, as well a Systems Engineer and always fascinated with science and read many books in this category, i.e. what i learnt in life is ONLY based on logic and common sense and this must be the case with you as a scientist which makes me more comfortable to discuss any matter with you
i will come back in a minute with my refute to the silly allegation regarding al masjid al haram, but will respond to any of your replies to it tomorrow as i'm just about knocking off to bed
and please don't put me in the same category as oneway, i actually consider this an insult but i forgave you
talk to you soon
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Brother bmbmm, sorry mate i will repsond to you tomorrow as i have to knock off now, i haven't read your comment yet actually but noticed it is directed for me, so talk to you later as i'm really tired
for brother arnold, here it is
I believe the word ?Masajid?, ? ?, was mentioned 6 times and it is the plural of ?Masjid?, ? ?, let?s have a look at all locations and see if we can collect any clues for its meaning, I used Shakir translation (note I kept the word Masajid UNTRANSLATED?
And who is more unjust than he who prevents (men) from the Massjid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them, and strives to ruin them? (As for) these, it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear; they shall meet with disgrace in this world, and they shall have great chastisement in the hereafter.
(114)
-> We have three clues in here
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prevents (men) from the masajid of Allah that His name should be remembered in them?, i.e. it sounds like a place that some wrong doers will try to prevent the name of Allah to be remembered INSIDE THEM
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? and strives to ruin them? ?, i.e. those wrong doers will try to ruin these Masajid, which suggests it is a place to be ruined
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?it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear?, i.e. those wrong doers shall enter the Masajid in fear, again it suggests that it is a place to be entered
It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil).
(187)
-> We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it
17- The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.
18- Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate and fears none but Allah; so (as for) these, it may be that they are of the followers of the right course.
(17)
(1-> Two clues
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? The idolaters have no right to visit the Masajid of Allah?, i.e. it sounds like a place not to be visited by the idolaters
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? Only he shall visit the Masajid of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day?, again it sounds like a place to be visited by the believers, I guess the word visit is the wrong translation by Shakir, I believe it should be ?to develop? as this is the closest in meaning to the Arabic word ? ?, ?Yo?Ammer?
Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say Our Lord is Allah. And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid in which Allah's name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.
(40)
-> We have two clues in here
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? there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and Masajid?, i.e. it is a sort of erected building that can be pulled down, like cloisters , churches and synagogues exactly, and in these places
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? in which Allah's name is much remembered?, i.e. Allah name should be remembered INSIDE THEM, again sounds like a place to me
And that the Masajid are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah
(1
-> Not much of a clue here other than the verse tells us ? the Masajid are Allah's?, it sound like they are His properties, possibly some may say this verse means the status of submission is for Allah, but this can?t be because the status of submission was mentioned as follow in the Quran
And they who pass the night prostrating themselves before their Lord and standing.
(64)
-> See, to describe the status of prostrating the Arabic word is ? ?, pronounced as ?Sujodda?, another word to describe those who prostrate themselves before Allah is ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, as seen below
They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers.
(112)
-> The word ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, may be ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajideen?, depending on Al Irab and Tashkil but both means the same as seen below
He said O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?
(32)
And when Allah ordered us to strive for this status of submission He told us the following
Therefore celebrate the praise of your Lord, and be of those who make obeisance.
(9
also when the magicians were defeated by Moses stuff we know what they did
And the magicians were thrown down prostrate;
(46)
Therefore the status of prostrating is either one of the followings according to the Quran
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Sujodda?
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajidoon?, Note Al is not compulsory
- ? ?, pronounced as ?Al Sajideen?, Note Al is not compulsory
AND NEVER THE FOLLOWING
? ?, pronounced as ?Masajid?, which is the Plural of ?Masjid?, ? ?, the singular ?Masjid? appeared about 22 times in the Quran, in all locations it means a place to worship Allah, and in many other locations it was specific to which worshipping place Allah is talking about, I brought in a couple of verses as an example and we will see clearly that it means a place to worship Allah in it
107- And those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Messenger before; and they will certainly swear We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.
108- Never stand in it; certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it; in it are men who love that they should be purified; and Allah loves those who purify themselves.
(107)
(10-> Subhana Allah, verse 9107 is a very Muhkam verse as far as I can see it, it actually tells us about things we see now days, it tells us about the improper use of these places of worshipping Allah ? those who built a Masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers?, this is a hard core fact that we can see it now days, we can see clearly the word BUILT, i.e. Masjid is something to be built to worship Allah in it, and Allah is warning us not to go to these places of worshipping that are improperly used ? Never stand in it?, then He is telling us that we should go to the places where ? certainly a Masjid founded on piety from the very first day is more deserving that you should stand in it;?, can you see the word ?FOUNDED?, in Arabic ? ?, actually the foundation of any building is called ? ?, I?m a Civil Engineer and I can assure you that this is what a foundation of a building means in Arabic, I understand that Allah is using this as a metaphor, as the foundation of a place cannot be really ?founded on piety?, but the message is clear, that there are many places that are built on real foundation and footings inside the ground to worship Allah but it is actually used to ? cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers?, hence Allah is telling us that the real foundation for a place to be built is ? founded on piety from the very first day? , and we can clearly find these good places where Allah is truly and honestly worshipped because we will find inside them ? in it are men who love that they should be purified?
I rest my case
Peace to all
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I found this comment that i did for brother bmbmm before which in the same subject, please brother bmbmm, respnd to it with some elaboration, but please bear in mind, i'm only debating the meaning of the masjid, i'm not willing YET to get involved in the subject where masjid al haram is located, but I will get into it later after a do some Quran reading, i only use the Quran in my replys, no hearsay, no conjecture, no hadith, no self opinions
Peace bro bmbmm, I was reading your comment then just stopped here after dicovering a major flaw in that part
so you said "The root word ?Sahara? means ?To cast a spell or to bewitch?.", which I agree
then you said "When somebody is bewitched a prefix ?Ma? is appended to the root, which becomes the ground form of the verb ?Mas-hur?.", this is totally wrong
to express that somebody becomes the ground of any verb it must be on the following wazn "Maf'ool", in arabic it looks like this "", this will make the "Sahara" verb looks like this "" and pronounced as "Mas-hor?", as you can see I replaced the U with an O and this makes it pronounced properly
Now Masjid is NOT on the wazn "Maf'ool" it is on the wazn "Maf'al", which looks like this "", please go and ask all the arabic speakers in the world whom you know and trust, but possibly you won't because you think that the arabs manipulated the languaged hey lol
now if you can also manage to ask them how to derive a noun for a place from a root, they should tell you it must be on the wazn "Maf'al" "", EXACTLY AS THE WORD MASJID
you got it totally wrong bro
peace
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Salam arnoldyasin.. good post
Salam Ahmed,
Can you have your intelectual input rather than cutting and pasting from the Quran?
The thing is masjid here. Its not a building/structure its the state of submission e.g
"We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it"
The above is not refering to a structure it is in the state of submission (commitments!), also by focusing on the restriction in the submission!
If you do not want to Serve/Commit to God and rather to choose Worshiping/Praying go ahead as there is no compulsion in the Dinn. And please, please do not cut and past from the Quran, I want your intelectual input, as we are scientists.
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Salam Ahmed,
Salam bro
so you don't want me to go to sleep?
Can you have your intelectual input rather than cutting and pasting from the Quran?
no bro, i only talk by the Quran, and intellect has nothing to do with it here, i guess the stupid ones will be the ones who talk without the Quran or the ones who manipulate its crystal clear meaning
but that is what most of my debaters say because surely they can't repsond to the Quran verses
why not refuting the Quran verses uysing your intellect and show us?
The thing is masjid here. Its not a building/structure its the state of submission e.g
"We have one clue in here, which is simply a warning to the believers ? and have not contact with them while you are in retreat in the Masajid; ?, i.e. not to contact their wives while they are Aakifon Fi Al Masajid, i.e. in retreat inside the Masajid, again it suggests that it is a place where the believers can retreat inside it"
The above is not refering to a structure it is in the state of submission (commitments!), also by focusing on the restriction in the submission!
If you do not want to Serve/Commit to God and rather to choose Worshiping/Praying go ahead as there is no compulsion in the Dinn. And please, please do not cut and past from the Quran, I want your intelectual input, as we are scientists.
how about the other verses?
pick and choose what is easy to play with hey?
good night mate, i have nothing to say to you regarding this masjid subject, i have let the Quran speak and refuted you fair and square, youe weakness is obvious by suggesting to me to bring something but the Quran
if you mean my intellect, well it seems you totally lost it in here because all the walk through between the verses is my own words using my bloody intellect
salam
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If you had read carefully, you would have seen that Ayman never refuted that it is a building, it is about the purpose of the building, where we are talking about. Also the use of the word Salat, sujjod and ruku inside the Quran of God are the ones that determine its concept.
What you have done now, is confirming what Ayman also says, it is talking about a building, but is about the function of the building, and thus we have to look at the concept of salat. He also says it is a building, an instution we must discuss Quran of God with each other, that is what he means with the concept obeying forbidden and so on.
Check the understanding of Salat as given in the Quran of God, not the concept you have in your head right now...
Peace
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If you had read carefully, you would have seen that Ayman never refuted that it is a building, it is about the purpose of the building, where we are talking about. Also the use of the word Salat, sujjod and ruku inside the Quran of God are the ones that determine its concept.
What you have done now, is confirming what Ayman also says, it is talking about a building, but is about the function of the building, and thus we have to look at the concept of salat. He also says it is a building, an instution we must discuss Quran of God with each other, that is what he means with the concept obeying forbidden and so on.
Check the understanding of Salat as given in the Quran of God, not the concept you have in your head right now...
Peace
hello bro
if your comment is to me, then i have to say you don't know how i understand what masjid meaning exactly, which again was discussed in details before in other posts, there is nothing in my head bro other than masjid is a place where believers perform sijood to Allah in it, i even said there are places that can be considered a temperorly masjid if someone performed sijood in it, like an aeroplane for example, or on the sidewalk, or a building, or an office, or any clean place that sijood will be performed in it
the only thing in my head bro is the arabic quran, and i only speak with it really as you have just seen, but it seems many don't like it and want me to say somthing elase but the Quram, however i know that there is at least a couple who appreciate it and this is enough for me
peace and good night
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Peace,
AB this is exactly what i am talking about, you don't refute the article with proofs but you only give your concept, where is your proof this concept is correct? Give me your proof, by refuting Ayman's article on his understanding of masjid, sujood, ruku and so on. You say it yourself that it is your concept that masjid is used for sujood, it is your concept of sujood. A concept that is pre-programmed. It is your pre-programmed idea of what the use is of a masjid. You are not giving proof by refuting Ayman's article. Give me proof from the Quran of God, that this concept is also God's concept....
Peace
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no bro, i only talk by the Quran, and intellect has nothing to do with it here, i guess the stupid ones will be the ones who talk without the Quran or the ones who manipulate its crystal clear meaning
Ahmed the above is rubbish. What do you mean intellect has nothing to do with Quran?
I am not picking and choosing the verses. In those verses if one simply stay away from a structural understanding of the world masjid, it all gets clear.
After all why we need a place for submision? It does not make sense when people twist the term sujud (submission) to bowing or 5x parayers or worship, hence comes the mosques where prople go and bow, in a ritual. Its easy isn't it? When you do not have to serve/commit to the worldly task. With this mantality, nowonder we are lost.
Ahmed I think you should ponder on the Quran and use your intelect and information that we have today, cross-referenece it with itself and all the knowlwdge that we have, rather than sticking to the traditional understanding of the Arabic language. And for God sake do not cut and paste the Quran as I am well informed of those translations. AS you say we are scientist, lets use a scientific approach.
Peace
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peace bmbmm and all. You have some very valid points doctor. I think what some people have done is minimalised the salat into a narrow concept and forgotten the wider purpose of salat,which is to get in tune with reality(god.) and so improve our intentions and actions. All life is an effort to discover the true god.(the true reality.) When we close our minds or ignore certain realities and morals we can go backwards in development. Physical salat is one attempt at connecting with god,but it is not the only valid one,it may not work if one ignores basic realities of life.
Science is like salat in that you try to understand life/reality/god through the medium of observation,study and experiment. Some science is good,some is not so good.For science to be good it has to take account of basic realities or otherwise it will turn into a ritual of illusions.(like some salat.) Its not just the physical method which is all-important,but also how you analyse and use the results you get. You are right,if we all try to follow universal law then we can get harmony in the system and be more successful. we have to be patient and tolerant with other peoples different views and try to unite on common ground and/or try to educate in a decent,kind manner by using our god-given intellectual tools.
Peace all. -
Peace,
Great posts All.
Let,s get more into the contents of the prayer. Following some thoughts of Inayat khan collected by Wahidduddin
The first aspect of prayer is giving thanks to God for all the numberless blessings that are bestowed upon us at every moment of the day and night, and of which we are mostly unconscious.
The second aspect of prayer is laying our shortcomings before the unlimited perfection of the divine Being, and asking His forgiveness. This makes man conscious of his smallness, of his limitation, and therefore makes him humble before his God. And, by humbling himself before God man does not lose any virtue. God alone has the right to demand complete humility.
There is a beautiful story told of the King Akbar that when he was grieving with an almost ungovernable grief over the death of his mother, his ministers and friends tried to comfort him by influence and power. Akbar replied, "Yes, that is true, and that only makes my grief greater; for while I have everyone to bow before me, to give way to me, to salute me and obey me, my mother was the one person before whom I could humble myself; and I cannot tell you how great a joy that was to me."Think, then, of the far greater joy of humbling one-self before the Father-Mother God on Whose Love one can always depend. A spark only of love expresses itself in the human father and mother; the Whole of Love in God. In whatever manner a man humbles himself it can never be enough to express the humility of the limited self before Limitless Perfection.
peace,
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Peace alpha97. Very nice post. Inayat khan is a very interesting man,ive read bits of his book...Union with god/reality....now that should be the goal of all beings.
peace all. -
Peace ik,
praying towards ka'aba isn't praying TO Ka'aba or cube or what not, its the unity of the situation; that everyone else is facing that way. Yes a lot of them are idol worshippers, but you are held accountable for YOUR deeds not theirs, and in the Quran it states that whereever u go u must face it
Actually, if one takes "sujud" and "ruku" as physical prostration and bowing, then physically there is absolutely no difference between prostrating to and towards something.
So people who primarily interpret "sujud" as physical prostration and "masjid" as a physical building are actually physically prostrating to the cube.
Now, they will all start complaining that "intent" and what is in your heart is what matters. However, "intent" and all that are not physical so they are caught in their own contradictions. They are inevitably forced to admit that the primary meaning of "sujud" (and hence "masjid") is not physical.
The fact is that someone who has done physical sujud but disobeyed The God hasn't really done "sujud" so the primary meaning of "sujud" is obedience. Similarly, "masjid" is an institution of obedience that we are told is built on "taqwa" (forethought). I don't see any walls and ceilings in mosques using "taqwa" in place of bricks or mortar. But we can build on "taqwa" our institutions. This meaning of "masjid" as an institution not a physical place is even used today. For example, we often hear about "almasjid Al-Azhar issuing a fatwa". Surely, no one thinks that the walls and ceilings are the ones who issue the "fatwa".
Peace,
Ayman
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no bro, i only talk by the Quran, and intellect has nothing to do with it here, i guess the stupid ones will be the ones who talk without the Quran or the ones who manipulate its crystal clear meaning
Ahmed the above is rubbish. What do you mean intellect has nothing to do with Quran?
good morning bro
no bro it is not rubbish, i didn't say intellect has nothing to do with the Quran, this is a clear cut manipulation
i said, has nothing to do with it here, i mean the subject of the meaning of the Arabic word masjid
no bloody intellect is needed here, i was taught arabic when i was born and i was told this is a masjid, this is a plan, this is a bird, this is a dog etc etc, see, i was a child with almost no intellect and yet manged to grasp it and memorise it as such, like you with your native language
but nice try though lol
I am not picking and choosing the verses. In those verses if one simply stay away from a structural understanding of the world masjid, it all gets clear.
why i have to stay from the structural understanding of a meaning of any word?
After all why we need a place for submision? It does not make sense when people twist the term sujud (submission) to bowing or 5x parayers or worship, hence comes the mosques where prople go and bow, in a ritual. Its easy isn't it? When you do not have to serve/commit to the worldly task. With this mantality, nowonder we are lost.
the subject is not how many times a day we do sijood, the subject in hand is this
does Masjid means a place to perform sijood or not? and the answer is yes it meanns as such
Ahmed I think you should ponder on the Quran and use your intelect and information that we have today,
that is what i do, independentaly, i don't follow conjecture and that is why i try to understand the Quran as literal as possible and this is so easy for a native arabic speaker,
cross-referenece it with itself and all the knowlwdge that we have, rather than sticking to the traditional understanding of the Arabic language. And for God sake do not cut and paste the Quran as I am well informed of those translations. AS you say we are scientist, lets use a scientific approach.
Peace
now that is really BS and I'm sick and tired of this flawed argument that i'm sticking to the traditions, far out bro, if that is what you want to convince yourslef with, fine with me, but don't throw this accusation on public again at me, thanks
and for the Quran, no bro, i will keep doing what i do because i don't like others to just have a mere verse reference so the readers stop reading and try to find the verse in another location, it is so disturbing for the reader, and i post the arabic because that is what will stand in any argument i face, not the many flawed translations
now using our intellect, is fine, that is what i use but only in a simplified manner, i don't confuse others by trying to convince them with conjectures
salam
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Salam Ahmed,
You learning arabic since you were young doesn't mean anything to me. Many Arabs don't understand the Quran. Remember God didn't borrow the Arabic language from you or the Arabs, who claim to be masters of the language. Aditionally, if you love to worship the cube and do sujud to it then it fine as there is no complusion in the dinn. I will just serve through submission by contemplating on the haram (restrictions) in the submission (masjid). I also suggest you take a rest so that others can have a more productive discussion here lol