Is this the true islam or is this a modern deception ?
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I looked at the one where he discusses the Hijab, and it certainly looks like he does have an excellent grasp of the Quran. On the other hand, I only looked at the first part of the one about the Kabba, and he basically takes it as a given, without any kind of Qur'anic proof, that the Kabaa mentioned in the Qur'an is in Mecca.
His arguments are no doubt very logical and well thought-out, however I think that anyone watching them should keep in mind that there are certain things, like the location of the Kabba, that he just takes for granted without analysing it further.
Seeing as he's giving these lectures in Karachi, I'm surprised he's still alive.
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salam.
i have watched only about half of their lectures , but so far i think that their lectures are very good . the only lectures that i couldnt agree was about 'riba' and the other one that i couldnt understand was about 'bani israel' .over all , thumbs up to Muhammad Shiekh and co .
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Peace,
My mother corresponds with someone from this org on the phone occasionally, I'm not sure if it's the chairman but it is someone from this org. I have to say that he has been instrumental in changing her outlook in quite some ways. Apparently he's into giving lectures and spreading the word with gusto in khi (lot's of people go visiting his home/calling him up to learn from him as well). I applaud his good work, though I might not agree with all of it, it's the basic mindset that's important and he seems quite well read. I might have a talk with him myself next month to see what he's all about.
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I looked at the one where he discusses the Hijab, and it certainly looks like he does have an excellent grasp of the Quran. On the other hand, I only looked at the first part of the one about the Kabba, and he basically takes it as a given, without any kind of Qur'anic proof, that the Kabaa mentioned in the Qur'an is in Mecca.
His arguments are no doubt very logical and well thought-out, however I think that anyone watching them should keep in mind that there are certain things, like the location of the Kabba, that he just takes for granted without analysing it further.
check this out http//www.the-quran.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=153#153
peace.
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Salaam sis Nadya, all,
My mother corresponds with someone from this org on the phone occasionally, I'm not sure if it's the chairman but it is someone from this org. I have to say that he has been instrumental in changing her outlook in quite some ways. Apparently he's into giving lectures and spreading the word with gusto in khi (lot's of people go visiting his home/calling him up to learn from him as well). I applaud his good work, though I might not agree with all of it, it's the basic mindset that's important and he seems quite well read. I might have a talk with him myself next month to see what he's all about.
I agree, we should applaud his intentions of promoting the Qur'aan, and I agree with some of his understandings, but apparently he is mistranslating some key words in the Qur'aan and ending up giving the wrong message, which in some ways is similar to the sectarian notions.
For example
Brother Shaikh clearly advocates following the Makkah style (Shafii style) salat and the sectarian 5 times salat by mistranslating some key words and verses of the Qur'aan. He also mistranslates some key verses about what the qiblah is and tries to prove that Meccan Kaaba and maqam-e-Ibrahim is the qiblah, and that the present Meccan Kaaba is the real Kaaba. He also advocates spinning around the Meccan Kaaba. He says that maqam-e-Ibrahim is IN the Meccan Kaaba, even though it is clearly not IN the Meccan Kaaba but is outside the Meccan Kaaba. He translates "masjid al-haram" as the "sacred" rather than "restricted".
He advocates Allahu Akbar in salat, even though that name has no Qur'aanic basis.
He advocates the bowing position. The bowing position has no support from the Qur'aan. According to Qur'aan one can only fall in ruku (kharra raki'an 3824). How can one fall into the bowing position? One can fall to the knees how'ever.
He advocates that in the wudu, washing of face means washing the nose and mouth also, because nose and mouth are part of the face. But then in tayammam with sand of the face, following the same reasoning, one should put sand in nose and mouth also !
What do you think of all that ?
Peace,
Tanveer
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Brother Shaikh clearly advocates following the Makkah style (Shafii style) salat and the sectarian 5 times salat by mistranslating some key words and verses of the Qur'aan. He also mistranslates some key verses about what the qiblah is and tries to prove that Meccan Kaaba and maqam-e-Ibrahim is the qiblah, and that the present Meccan Kaaba is the real Kaaba. He also advocates spinning around the Meccan Kaaba. He says that maqam-e-Ibrahim is IN the Meccan Kaaba, even though it is clearly not IN the Meccan Kaaba but is outside the Meccan Kaaba. He translates "masjid al-haram" as the "sacred" rather than "restricted".
He advocates Allahu Akbar in salat, even though that name has no Qur'aanic basis.
He advocates the bowing position. The bowing position has no support from the Qur'aan. According to Qur'aan one can only fall in ruku (kharra raki'an 3824). How can one fall into the bowing position? One can fall to the knees how'ever.
He advocates that in the wudu, washing of face means washing the nose and mouth also, because nose and mouth are part of the face. But then in tayammam with sand of the face, following the same reasoning, one should put sand in nose and mouth also !
salam .
why not raise these points in seperate threads at the IIPC forum too ? -
Salaam bro Saladin, all
check this out http//www.the-quran.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=153#153
Following are quotes from the article at the above posted link with the refutations
- Evidence from Al-Qur'an about Location of Al Masjid Al Haraam (The Sacred Mosque) & Al Bayt (The House)
"And it is He Who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of Makka, after that He gave you the victory over them. And Allah sees well all that ye do." 4824
"They (the unbelievers whose hands were restrained by Allah from the believers in the middle of Makkah) are the rejectors and they opposed you from Al Masjid Al Haraam and the sacrificial animals, detained from reaching their place of sacrifice. Had there not been believing men and believing women whom ye did not know that ye were trampling down and on whose account a crime would have accrued to you without (your) knowledge, ((Allah) would have allowed you to force your way, but He held back your hands) that He may admit to His Mercy whom He will. If they had been apart, We should certainly have punished the Unbelievers among them with a grievous Punishment." 4815
It is clear from 4814-15 that the residents of Makkah who were rejecting prevented the believers from Al Masjid Al Haraam and also prevented the Hadya (gift, sacrifical animal) from reaching its place, which is further described as Al Bayt Al Ateeq i.e. the ancient House in Al Hajj 2233. Therefore, it is evident from pondering on these ayaat that both Al Masjid Al Haraam as well as Al Bayt (The House) mentioned in various ayaat are located in Makkah and not in Jerusalem.
Archeological evidence and historical evidence clearly points out to the fact that there is no evidence of existence of a large town by the name of Makkah until 8th century AD. The pagans took the common noun "makkata" from the Qur'aan and named their new city Makkah, much after the death of the Prophet to confuse the muslims.
Please refer to brother Ayman's excellent thread about this and his article at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm
Also evidence from Qur'aan and archeological evidence points out to the fact that Prophet Muhammad lived in the area around Jerusalem before migrating to Medina. Please check out the article of brother Layth at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/history/moh.htm
The word "makkata" is mentioned in the context of a war. However, Al-Qur'aan CLEARLY tells us that the first sanctuary was at BAKKAH. Does anyone think that Allah does not know how to spell ?
Even if Makkah was a city where the war mentioned took place and the pagans prevented believers and the sacrificial animals from reaching masjid al-haram, does not prove that masjid al-haram was in Makkah. It still remains a possibility that masjid al-haram was situated in Jerusalem and the pagans of Makkah had the believers in a siege and cut off their route back to Jerusalem.
- Qiyam Rukoo Sujood & Tawaaf are practices that are established in Al Masjid Al Haraam in Makah and not in Jerusalem
"And when We pointed out the place of the House to Ibraheem, (saying) "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and clean My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves." 2226
When Allah describes a phenomenon or behavior, then it exists in all times. The practices of The House mentioned in the ayah are Tawaaf (Circumbulation) Qiyam (Standing) Rukoo (Bowing) and Sujood (Prostration). Never at any point in time is tawaaf being done in Jerusalem by mankind, nor Qiyam, Rukoo, Sujood. These practices in all time (past, present, future) are occuring in Al Bayt in Makkah.
Therefore the House mentioned in the ayaat is in Makkah and not in Jerusalem.
First of all the word "taifeen" in 2226 means "groups of people".
Secondly Allah never promotes or sanctions pagan rituals and practices of idol worship.
Thirdly there is historical and archeological evidence from orientation of some old mosques in Egypt and Jordan and also non-muslim writings that even as late as 8th century majority of muslims faced the Kaaba in Jerusalem as their qibla and were making a pilgrimage to the Kaaba in Jerusalem. Thus "qiyaam, "ruku", sujud" were going on at the Kaaba in Jerusalem.
2226 is addressed to Abraham, and the context is the times of Abraham. The phenomenon described in this verse existed at the time of Abraham. It does not mean that the phenomenon existed at all times.....that is just a conjecture.
- The House is in a peaceful location
"Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety..." 2125
"And remember Abraham said "My Lord, make this a City of Peace.." 2126
"...whoever enters it attains security.." 397
Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger. ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque, if Allah wills, in security..." 4827
The above and many other ayaat give open proof about the address of Masjid Al Haraam, Kaaba, and Hajj i.e. in a location where there is peace and security by Allah. It is a fact that Jerusalem has not been a city of peace, but of war and conflict to this day and age, hence it is not the place mentioned in the ayaat but it is Makkah which has enjoyed overall peace and security and has not seen any major war or conflict.
Again the context is historical and does not mean that safety and security exists at ALL times in the location of bayt al-haram. In the times of Abraham after him overpowering the idolaters and building the House, there was peace and safety. Again in time of Prophet Muhammad, after the believers overpowered the Romans and entered back in Jerusalem, there was safety and security at the bayt al-haram.
The name "Jerusalem" itself means "city of peace" which fits the prayer of Abraham for Bakka to be a "city of peace".
- There is no Safa & Marwah in Jerusalem!
"Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah. So if those who visit the House in the Season or at other times, should compass them round, it is no sin in them. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,--be sure that Allah is He Who recogniseth and knoweth."
Above verse mentions Bayt (House) as well as Hajj (Pilgrimage) and relates it with Safa & Marwah. As there are no Safa & Marwa in Jerusalem, it most certainly cannot be the House that the Qur'an talks about. It is a fact that Safa & Marwah are locaed in Makkah only in the entire world, where mankind perform the act mentioned in the ayah.
The above is clear cut evidence directly from Qur'anic text to answer as to why Hajj is in Makkah and not in Jerusalem.
This is again deception of the pagans that they took two common nouns from the Qur'aan and named two mountains in the valley of Makkah as Safa and Marwa !!
Please check out the thread at the following link for a debate on safa and marwa
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=941
Excerpts from that debate
The classical Arabic dictionary meaning of "safa" means "the camel and the sheep that give a lot of milk" and "the palm tree that carries a lot of dates". Also, a related word "safif" means "meat".
As for "marwah" it has a meaning of the white fragile stone where a cooking fire is started. It also means "the stone on which an animal is slaughtered".
So by consistently understanding 2236 and 2158 using classical Arabic dictionaries and applying the appropriate context of "sha3air Allah" and "hajj", here is a translation of 2158
- The camel and the sheep that give a lot of milk and the stone on which they are cooked/slaughtered are from what The God makes us aware with so whomever visits the house or maintains there is no blame on him if he passes by/partakes in them and whoever does good voluntarily, then The God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.
So we see that 2158 and 2236 are talking about the same concepts of animal slaughter during the gathering of "hajj" to eat from it and feed the needy and poor.
All that the article proves is that the later falsehood of the two stones in so-called Makka has its roots in Biblical corruptions.
Also there are two mountains near Bakkah in Jerusalem named "Moriah" and "Sion." Both these words have the same signification and import as the famous mounts of "Marwa" and "Sapha" in Mecca, which words respectively mean "the place of the vision of the Lord," and "the rock" or "stone."
Check the following link for reference to Moriah and Sion
http//www.muhammad.net/biblelp/biblelp7.html
Maybe Mt. Sion is the real "Safa" and Mt. Moriah is the real "Marwa" ?? !!
The fact remains that how will you explain the following ?
? Islamic history records Jerusalem as being the first focal-point ?Qibla? before Mecca.
? The recipients of the Torah and Injeel (Jews and Nazarenes) acknowledge the significance of Jerusalem, but deny any knowledge of Mecca.
? The name ?Bakka? is found in the Jewish bible (Psalms 84) as people are on their way to Jerusalem for Pilgrimage (to stand before God at Mt. Zion).
? The name ?Bakka? is still found in city maps of Jerusalem as the name of a valley located less than 5 miles from the Temple Mount to the South West.
? The name ?Jerusalem? (city of peace) fits the prayer of Abraham for Bakka to be a ?city of peace? (Quran 2126).
? The Quran speaks of ?olives? growing in the vicinity of the town where the Prophet is situated (Ref. Quran 951-3). Olives are natural to the area of the Mediterranean (near which Jerusalem is situated) but not Arabia.
? The Dome of the Rock is built around a ?Kaaba?.
? The ?Maqam Ibrahim? are mere footprints in Meca which have no bearing on Pilgrimage, while the ?Maqam Ibrahim? in Jerusalem is designed for animal sacrifice.
? The ?Maqam Ibrahim? is situated ?outside? the Kaba in Mecca, while it is supposed to be situated ?inside? the Kaba (as in Jerusalem).
? The Kaba in Jerusalem is an ?elevated platform? which matches the description given in the Quran of the Pilgrims emerging from ?Arafat? (the high/elevated place)
? The rock over which the ?Dome of the Rock? is situated seems designed for animals to be slaughtered on it (as evidenced by a hole in the rock which is thought to drain blood sacrifices down to a hollow cavern below). If so, then this would match perfectly the rite of Pilgrimage and the slaughter of livestock for feasting and giving to the poor/needy.
Please check out the following article about Qur'aanic evidence of where the real Kaaba is
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/hajj.htm
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Peace bro Tanveer,
Great last post
I agree, we should applaud his intentions of promoting the Qur'aan, and I agree with some of his understandings, but apparently he is mistranslating some key words in the Qur'aan and ending up giving the wrong message, which in some ways is similar to the sectarian notions.
Indeed, like some other people we might come to a limit which we choose not to cross. Maybe a debate would be beneficial with them, who knows it might just open some doors of further understanding? Like you said, I too think their salaat/hajj/kaba understandings need to be further refined.
What do you think of all that ?
It caused no end of trouble with my mother when I tried to tell her of salat/hajj/kaba I tell you! It was a madhouse with my mom going hysterical and forcing me to talk to this guy. I chose to take the practical hero's way out i.e. live to fight another day. I will talk to him though if I can and present these points after deciding which subjects and collecting all the relevant research. Maybe it will help better our collective understanding.
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salam Nadia.
It caused no end of trouble with my mother when I tried to tell her of salat/hajj/kaba I tell you! It was a madhouse with my mom going hysterical and forcing me to talk to this guy. I chose to take the practical hero's way out i.e. live to fight another day.
i think you should have talked to him . havent u seen his lectures ? u can view them free online . or u can request them to send u free VCDs or DVDs .
I will talk to him though if I can and present these points after deciding which subjects and collecting all the relevant research. Maybe it will help better our collective understanding.
these points in this thread would not have been raised , if one had watched his lecture on the topic "kaaba/qibla" with a sincere mind . especially after watching this lecture , i would say that he is the most powerful scholar of the Quran right now .
checkimout )
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Peace Fahad,
Thanks for reminding me about the online thing, it had slipped my mind entirely. I will definitely watch it soon, or maybe I can catch something live seeing as how I'll be going there in a few days anyway.
Peace jankren,
Of course not. The problem in my case arose when I told my mother of what I do as opposed to telling her what she was doing 'wrong', heck, I'm the one who encouraged her to pray 5 times if that made her feel better, something is better than nothing. If that works for her who am I to stand in the way. It's between her and God. The thing we reached a concensus on was that ultimately, you can only tell people to pick up the quran, the rest is upto them if they want to learn.
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Salaamun alaikum,
The question of the thread was 'is this THE (emphasis mine) true or is this a modern deception'.
Imho, you've all compared and contrasted what Al-quraan says with what Shiekh teaches very well. The question I'd like to ask is, what is 'THE TRUE Islam' as the question puts it?
Al-islaam is contained in al-quraan in objective format. All of us like Shiekh, Parwez (and even oh yes, Maududi!) have engaged with al-quraan and come up with our results. Just because Parwez and Shiekh are 'quraniyeen' (as derogatarily labelled), this doesnt mean they were without any baggage.
The true Islam, imho can only be achieved when nothing of one's principles contradict with al-quraan whether principally or applicationally.
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peace yall
A great post tanvermd. Sharp observations as pr. usual.
The name "Jerusalem" itself means "city of peace" which fits the prayer of Abraham for Bakka to be a "city of peace".
If there is anything Jerusalem never was, it is a city of peace. Every kind of licentious, filthy, screwball and degenerate relegion has been practiced there. To me there is nothing holy in the city named Jerusalem, never was, and there is never going to be anything holy in the future, to be found in jerusalem. Logic alone should tell you (like it does with mecca when you look at it), that Jerusalem obviously is out of its mind and always has been.
Hadith have some interresting storys regarding this;
"(A)Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who (B)kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, (C)the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. matt 23-37
"(A)O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, (B)just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it! Luke
Mecca stole the name. and erected an altair, is it hard to think that the same thing applies to this place? that the devils, played the same trick back then? IM not saying that i know, im asking you. because given the behaviour and mentality of the place, if it has a god, it sure isnt The God.
Anyone promoting God alone is not damaging to any cause. We dont have a cause, God does, and im sure God knows what its doing. This stuff is just details, with little practical implications to my life atleast.
They want to belive it is a rock in mecca, you want to belive its a rock en jerusalem, im all cool with that. Personally i think its a system of philosphy that was 'erected" by Abraham and son, so im not trying to fokus on anything but that whenever i pray. As for where the hajj goes, it does to any place where people gather in the mentality of open and free debate, and the witness of the benefits of being together. Im told from hadeeth that the jews and xtians used to have their hajj in the city we call jerusalem. But im not convinced that i have to go there. I am however convinced that i should go to such a meeting in my life, atleast once.
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Peace Magi,
Thanks for the kind words. I basically agree with most of what you said.
you want to belive its a rock en jerusalem, im all cool with that. Personally i think its a system of philosphy that was 'erected" by Abraham and son, so im not trying to fokus on anything but that whenever i pray.
I don't believe that we have to focus on a rock in Jerusalem while "praying". The "qiblah" as mentioned in al-qur'aan is a direction/goal/target for us AT ALL TIMES towards "al-masjid al-haram" which is not a physical building but is "institution of hearing and obeying the restrictions/forbidden in the system/deen" or "the truth from our Lord", and not just a focal point for "salat", which btw I don't believe can be translated just as "prayer". For me upholding or persisting "salat" is "turning towards Allah or establishing a learning connection with Allah, by recitation and UNDERSTANDING of al-qur'aan thereby hearing the message of al-qur'aan and humbly submitting to it and obeying it". We need to be oriented towards "the truth from our Lord" at all times.
Also regarding "awwala bayta" or the "first bayt" in 396, the word "first" implies that there could be other "bayt" later, not necessarily at the same location. For me "al-bayt al-haram" is the communication vehicle for "al-masjid al-haram".
For my understanding of "al-masjid al-haram" please see the discussion at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?
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Peace
salat", which btw I don't believe can be translated just as "prayer". For me upholding or persisting "salat" is "turning towards Allah or establishing a learning connection with Allah, by recitation and UNDERSTANDING of al-qur'aan thereby hearing the message of al-qur'aan and humbly submitting to it and obeying
we need to work on our communications skills, or rather i do. We find ourself in perfect agrement at the core of things yet again.
Obviously salat can not only be prayer. When i say prayer it is mostly because i have such a hard time eliminating old terminology altho its meanings changed to meI do pray in the traditional sense too though, by communicating directly with God by spoken words. Perhaps its selv delution but i find it top be very comforting in times of distress, and a boost of happy in times of joy.
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Peace KGB,
The problem is the videos do not work with Windows Media player.
Some videos work with WMP some don't. The ones that do work with WMP have a working link for WMP. Try viewing them in real player which can be downloaded for free.