Sunni Prayer
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Peace,
True Blue wrote
Should one recite God's words back to God in prayer?What would be the point for doing this?
Anwar Azim
My point exactly, yet that is what the Sunni world calls prayer.
I am actually struggling a bit with the prayer issue, but I see from majority of the posts here that people have gotten too fed up with this topic being repeated again and again.
I honestly don't see a point to offering contact prayers in a language I don't even understand. It seems futile. I might as well be "praying" in Latin or Hebrew and it would have made no difference. Seems like blind faith to just follow without questioning.
If God so wills, I'll study the prayer in detail soon.
God be praised.
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salam.
i establish salat 3 times a day in almost the same traditional/sunni manner . but i have to study the topic more properly .
checkout the lecture at www.iipc.tv . -
Peace upon you all!
Speaking of Sunni prayer, there is a hadith saying that basically says that if you accidently miss the sunrise prayer more than once (non-occasionally) then you are automatically a nonbeliever or infidel. Who really buys into that lie?
There's a man who emphasizes that I do Sunni prayer five times everyday or else I am not really submitting to God even if I do salaat according to GOD'S WORD in The Koran. roll
I remember when I used to do Sunni prayer about three months ago or so, it was alright but I never understood why I had to memorize those last two paragraphs in Arabic at all. Currently I just do salaat three times every day (sunrise, afternoon, sunset) based off of what I read in The Koran so that I have a little bit of instruction and can worship God from the heart. It even says in The Torah to serve God with your heart and soul which was one of the major things that God wanted most from the Children of Israel. The Sunni prayer is alright as long as you really mean what you are doing and you feel you are doing what is right. However, it can ofcourse be changed a little bit and the parts that mention Muhammad and Abraham should be left out because our salaat is to be given to God alone. Hmmm, I may actually do this; I'll change up the Sunni salaat so that it's suits a Koran and God alone form of salaat. Besides, the Sunni salaat does involve many things from The Koran that give instruction for salaat. Instead of switching to five times a day (which I hear has pagan origins) I will continue doing this three times per day as mentioned in The Koran.
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Salaamun alaikum all,
An excellent article on "salat" according to Qur'aan is as follows
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm
Link to one of the forum discussions about "salat"
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44264&highlight=#44264
Link to brother Wakas's understanding of salat
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/slw.htm
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Tanveer
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Actually scholars differ in opinion of labeling one a "kafir" if prayers arent performed.
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I think one should commit/connect all the time when one is not sleeping or intoxicated, rather than 3 or 5 times a day towards a stone. i do not have a clue why people are so keen on rituals/religion/worship when they need tp focus to serve/commit God in every ocassion through out life.
Peace
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Peace,
Praying is Polishing the crystal of HEART.
- Remembering All the bounties of existence and being Thankfull.
- Reminding us of the day of resurrection and Remebering the wrongs of the day and ask for Forgivness. To compensate it tommorow.
A Soul that through daily life does NOT want to get attracted and get preoccupied into worldly pursuits which are all around us; prays.
Praying is Polishing the crystal of HEART.
peace,
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Salam, D
Im just wondering whether any quranist here still prays in sunni way? Because I myself still pray in that way with a lil change 3x a day.
I think sunni or any other ways of prayer are not wrong as long as it's done with the right intention and doesn't violate any laws of God. However, I dont agree with those who think that observing physical prayer is unnecessary at all.Salam jankren,
Just curious ...How many rakaah do you perform for each prayer? Two, three, four?
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God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran There are five, not three.
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr in Arabic) , given in 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 245811114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day (Asr, Magrib) AND at the approaches of the night (Isha)..
2558 mentions Fajr and Isha
1778 Establish worship at the going down of the sun (Magrib) until the dark of night (Isha), and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn (Fajr) is ever witnessed.
3018And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday (Zuhr). -
Peace all,
God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran There are five, not three.
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr in Arabic) , given in 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 245811114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day (Asr, Magrib) AND at the approaches of the night (Isha)..
2558 mentions Fajr and Isha
1778 Establish worship at the going down of the sun (Magrib) until the dark of night (Isha), and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn (Fajr) is ever witnessed.
3018And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday (Zuhr).how is asr an end f the day?
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Currently I just do salaat three times every day (sunrise, afternoon, sunset) based off of what I read in The Koran so that I have a little bit of instruction and can worship God from the heart. It even says in The Torah to serve God with your heart and soul which was one of the major things that God wanted most from the Children of Israel. The Sunni prayer is alright as long as you really mean what you are doing and you feel you are doing what is right. However, it can ofcourse be changed a little bit and the parts that mention Muhammad and Abraham should be left out because our salaat is to be given to God alone. Hmmm, I may actually do this; I'll change up the Sunni salaat so that it's suits a Koran and God alone form of salaat. Besides, the Sunni salaat does involve many things from The Koran that give instruction for salaat. Instead of switching to five times a day.. I will continue doing this three times per day as mentioned in The Koran.
Salaam,
I'm so happy to read your post because I'm still struggling to understand, but I'm seeing and handling things in the same way that you are--and that's comforting. In the meantime, I'll keep researching....Lisa
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God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran There are five, not three.
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr in Arabic) , given in 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458
11114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day (Asr, Magrib) AND at the approaches of the night (Isha)..
2558 mentions Fajr and Isha
1778 Establish worship at the going down of the sun (Magrib) until the dark of night (Isha), and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn (Fajr) is ever witnessed.
3018And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday (Zuhr).As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.No offence, brother but i think you should read this.
THREE SALAT AUTHORISED IN THE QURAN
The prayers mentioned BY NAME in the Quran are three
1- Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer)2458
2- Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer)2458
3- Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2238.
The following points all confirm that there are only three Salat authorised by God in the Quran
FIRST
God tells us that the Quran contains all the details (6114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (63.
If this is the case, and more important, IF WE BELIEVE GOD 100%, then we have to ask why are the names of the other two salat not mentioned in the Quran?
The reply to this can be one of the following
1- God forgot to mention the other two! (this option is obviously false, because God does NOT forget).
2- The Quran does not contain all the details (this is also false because God tells us in 6114 that it does).
3- God did not mention the names of the other 2 salat because they are not important . This is also a false option, if they were not important then they would not be compulsory, as a result to claim that there are 5 compulsory prayers becomes a false claim.
4- God did not mention the names of the other 2 prayers because God wants us to guess them !!! Once again this is false, the Quran is not a book of puzzles.
5- God does not mention the names of the other 2 salat because God wants us to uphold our inherited rituals as a second source of law besides the Quran! Once again this assumption is incorrect since it is in violation of 6114, 73 and 548. For all the details please go to Millat Ibraheem
6- God does not mention the names of the other 2 prayers, because THERE IS NO OTHER 2 PRAYERS according to the law of the Quran.more to come ......
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SECOND
Let us read 11114 where the misunderstanding occurred
"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayers) at the ends of the day, and zulufann min al-layl."11114
There has been a number of interpretations of the words 'zulufann min al-layl' the ones that are most used are (part of the night) or (during the night) or (some part of the night).
However, none of these interpretations is accurate or in line with the Quranic use of the word 'zulufan' as will be shown shortly.
Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to mean (you shall observe the prayers at both ends of the day AND part of the night) ?.. as a result, the verse was interpreted to be speaking about two Salat at the end of the day PLUS an additional salat during the night, a total of 3 salat. Those with this interpretation give these 3 Salat the names of Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer, which is mentioned by name in the Quran), Salat Al-Maghrib (not mentioned by name in the Quran), plus Salat Al-Esha (Night prayer, which is mentioned in the Quran by name but with a different time range).
Others have interpreted this verse to be speaking about Salat Al-Fajr (mentioned in the Quarn) and Salat al-Asr (not mentioned in the Quran) plus salat Al-Maghrib (not mentioned in the Quran by name).
All these interpretations rely on names and times of Salat that not authorised in the Quran. The whole mis-understanding is due to the fact that they have failed to accept that this verse (11114) in actual fact speaks of TWO Salat and NOT three. This will be apparent once we establish the true meaning of key words in 11114.
The root of the word 'zulufann' is 'Zulfa'. This word is used in the Quran to mean near or adjacent
" ..... Those who set up idols beside Him say, "We idolize them only to bring us 'zulfa' (near/close) to God ...." 393
As a result, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' means the near/adjacent part of the night. The obvious question is near to what? Nothing can be described as 'near' in absolute terms, the word near can only have a meaning when we have a reference point to which this thing is near to. So now we have to read 11114 again and see what does God mean by near, near to what? The only other reference points given in 11114 are the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset). Also note that the word which is used in 11114 is 'zulufann', this is a plural form of 'zulfa', thus the words 'zulufann min al-layl' speak of the parts of the night (plural) that are adjacent to the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset).
The adjacent parts of the night (to sunrise and sunset) are the two 'parts' of the night, the part before sunrise, and the part after sunset (note that anytime before sunrise and after sunset is defined as night in Quranic terminology).
As a result it becomes apparent that God is giving us in 11114 the range of two salat. The range for the two salat are the parts of the night that are just before sunrise and immediately after sunset.
Perhaps the word "wa" (which means AND) and which is placed before the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' in 11114 contributed largely to the mis-interpretation of this verse. Many have understood the word 'and' to mean (and an additional Salat), however, the word 'and' simply links the two ends of the day with their adjacent parts of the night to give the time range of the two salat. This is not any different than the following example
If your doctor tells you You can only have your medicine at miday AND for the following few hours.
What does this mean? Does this mean that you must take the medicine at miday and then take it AGAIN for a few hours after that? or does it simply mean that the time you can take the medicine is anytime between miday and the few hours after that?
Similarly, if God tells us to observe the Salat at the ends of the day 'and' for the adjacent hours of the night, it is the same thing. The word 'and' in 11114 does not indicate an additional third prayer.more to come .....
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With reason, it can be proved that this is the ONLY logical explanation of this verse
1- A command to observe the salat at the two ends of the day (without the inclusion of the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl', does not provide us with any indication as to when exactly these two Salat are to be observed. This is because the ends of the day are mere points in time that are no longer than a minute each. Surely God does not expect all believers to observe the salat only during the few seconds that it takes the sun to rise or set? It is only with the addition of the words "zulufan min al-layl" in the same verse that the command indicates a time range when these two salat should be observed.
2- To get round this tricky situation some have claimed that we can observe the Salat around the two points and not only during the actual sunrise/sunset, but this is equally unacceptable. This interpretation gives rise to a new valid question Does this mean that we may observe the Salat anytime before or after sunrise/sunset? Is it only before sunrise/sunset? Is it only after sunrise/sunset? It is obvious that we would be left without any clues as to when exactly to observe these two Salat unless we accept the further clarification given by the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl'. This phrase confirms that it is the night side of the sunrise and sunset that the salat may be observed.
The two Salat at the ends of the day that are spoken of in 11114 are given specific names in the Quran. They are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer) and Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer).THIRD
Now we come to the third Salat mentioned in the Quran, which is Al-Salat Al-Wusta (223.
The word Wusta is the adjective of the word Wasat which means middle, therefore the words Al-Salat Al-Wusta mean 'The Middle Prayer'. Moreover, the notion of a 'Middle' prayer indicates that the number of prayers is an odd number. Consequently, the Salat Al-Wusta is a prayer that lies half way between the two prayers at the two ends of the day. In astronomical terms this Salat is due exactly at the middle of the day, i.e. when the sun has travelled half its distance in the sky.
In 2238 we read the words 'hafezu ala al-salawaat', which mean (you shall persevere with your prayers). The word 'Salawaat' is plural and speaks of more than two prayers. If they were only two prayers the word used would have been 'Al-Salatayn' (the two prayers). Moreover, if God was speaking about the concept of prayer in general, and without referring to the number of individual salat, the words used would have been "hafezu ala al-salat" as we read in many other verse.
The Salat Al-Wusta can be observed from the moment the sun begins its descend from its highest point (duluk al shams) until the darkness of the night (ghasaq al-layl) starts, which is at sunset
"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayer) from when the sun declines from its highest point up till the 'ghasaq al-layl' (the darkness of the night)." 1778
P.S. The darkness of the night starts to set in at sunset. And that is when the Salat Al-Wusta ends.more to come .....
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FOURTH
God tells us that the time of each prayer is precisely appointed "kitaban mawqootan" 4103. The word "kitaban" which means BOOK refers to the Quran, or to 'that which is written'. The deliberate use of this word by God confirms to us that the precise appointed time for each of the prayers is given in the Quran. Once again this conforms to the fact that the Quran contains all the details.
Now let us assume that the total number of prayers every day is five, then where in the Quran do we find the appointed time for the claimed 'Salat Al-Asr' (afternoon prayer)? When does it start? Similarly, when does the fagr prayer start? When does the claimed 'Maghrib' (sunset) prayer end? (remember if we accept that there are 5 prayers in the Quran, then we cannot interpret the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' to indicate a time span, but to indicate an additional salat).
It is a known fact that non of the advocates of the five prayers is able to give any Quranic reference for the time spans of all five prayers.
The five prayer interpretation cannot be substantiated by using Quranic evidence.
But if we accept the Quranic truth about the three salat, and accept that the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' gives the time span for the two prayers at sunrise and sunset, then the times of all three prayers are precisely given in the Quran.
The time for three prayers would thus be as followsTHE FAGR (DAWN) PRAYER
This prayer starts when the first thin ray of light is observed in the sky. God gives us the explanation to this when "the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn." 2187
The time for the dawn prayer is also given in the Quran with the words
" ??.. and at dawn as the stars fade away." 5249
This poetic description of the time for the dawn prayer in 5249 is very accurate scientifically. The stars start to fade out when the first rays of light appear in the sky, and they are completely gone with sunrise.
The Dawn prayer ends at the first 'taraf' (terminal) of the day which is sunrise (11114).
Consequently, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' which translates to (the adjacent or near hours of the night) give us a very accurate description of the time for the Fajr (Dawn) payer. The Fagr prayer can be observed during the last hour or so of the night when there is light in the sky. This hour/s are still part of the night, this is because day does not begin until the sun rises.THE ESHA (NIGHT) PRAYER
The night prayer is identical to the dawn prayer but at the other end of the day (Sunset). This prayer starts at the second 'taraf' (terminal) of the day which is sunset, and lasts for the adjacent night hour/s when the light has not disappeared completely from the sky. The prayer ends when the light has totally disappeared from the night sky.THE WUSTA (MIDDLE) PRAYER
The middle or 'Wusta' prayer starts when the sun starts to decline from its highest point in the sky (dulook al-shams) and ends when the darkness of the night starts to set in (sunset).more to come ....
