Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Salam brother darbaari
Just a quick note and please don?t consider it a debate in anyway, calling the Quran ?The Reading? and substituting it with the two words ?The Reading? is very misleading, vague and does not make any sense
We know that the Quran is a book that can only be read as any other book, what new info here to call it the reading?
And most people must ask if you mention it ?The Reading?, which reading?, this is because the Reading is very general and have no attraction to it as an individual word without any context.
And when you face that question ?which reading exactly?? then I'm sure you will answer "The Quran? and when you do that, everything is clear
Now if everything is clear by calling it The Quran, why making it vague and hard to understand for an average human being?
See, if I tell you I love the song, you will ask me which song?, if I keep telling you, the song is the song, you will call me crazy, but if I tell you I love The wall by pink floyed, then you need no elaboration from me unless you don?t know pink floyed and his album the wall
A child know that any book is for reading, this is what they learn first at kindergarten anyway, so I don't think that Allah is considering us children to send us a book that you think it means the Reading and instead of calling it ?Al Qiraa?, ? ? which means the reading, He calls it ?Al Quran?, ? ?, not sure why?, but I can only see that we will be confused if you think He did,
You have to also consider that there are people who can?t read due to ignorance or due to disability, so how they can read the Quran?
The Quran is also for listening, in fact here is another clear order to do just that
YUSUFALI When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace that ye may receive Mercy.
PICKTHAL And when the Qur'an is recited, give ear to it and pay heed, that ye may obtain mercy.
SHAKIR And when the Quran is recited, then listen to it and remain silent, that mercy may be shown to you.
(204)
-> Now, please tell me, why the above 3 translators all agreed that Quran means Quran?
According to 7204, which one makes sense to an average human
When the Quran is read?
Or
When the reading is read?
I see the name ?Al Quran? is very unique and a miracle on its own because no other reading took that title ?Al Quran? but all readings are already ?The readings? which is vague because it can refer to any thing that can be read including the Quran.
Al Quran only inclines to read but never ever meant the reading because the reading means ??, "Qiraa"
Peace be with you
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Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allaah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein
Are the above people of azzikr?
Peace
i think it is about the rejectors . but i will have to make sure by reading the sura again , or at least some of the surrounding verses . later .
but whats the point ?
.
I think its a general command/advice to anyone, as no one can really have faith/accept the Quran without evidence/out of ignorance. I myself try to find discrepancies and everyone should do that. So it does not refer "only" to the rejectors, its general. The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
Peace
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I did some research and found that according to Lane's Lexicon, "al-qur'aan" can also mean "the collection" (collection of verses, chapters) in addition to "the reading/recitation".
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000030.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000031.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000032.pdf
I think that in some verses "al-qur'aan" is the proper name of the book of Allah, and in some verses it can literary mean "the reading"(of the book of Allah), depending on the context.
Nowhere Allah has mentioned the word "ism" in relation with "al-qur'aan" to make it a clear cut name of the book of Allah, like He does with His names when He mentions "asma al-husna" or "bismillah". So saying that it can only mean the name of the book of Allah does not have a clear cut authority from Allah.
Remember, in Arabic language there are no capital letters to denote a proper name. Whether a word is proper name or a common noun is determined by the CONTEXT of usage of that word.
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I think that in some verses "al-qur'aan" is the proper name of the book of Allah, and in some verses it can literary mean "the reading", depending on the context.I accept that bro and this is why I say it is a name to incline to read, in arabic Quran will stay Quran when we process the words in our minds, in English it should be translated Quran then elaborated on that it is name to incline to read
Peace
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peace.
Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allaah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein
Are the above people of azzikr?
Peace
i think it is about the rejectors . but i will have to make sure by reading the sura again , or at least some of the surrounding verses . later .
but whats the point ?
.
I think its a general command/advice to anyone, as no one can really have faith/accept the Quran without evidence/out of ignorance. I myself try to find discrepancies and everyone should do that. So it does not refer "only" to the rejectors, its general.
whats it got do with ahluzzikar ?!
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
peace.
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Salam brother darbaari
Just a quick note and please don?t consider it a debate in anyway, calling the Quran ?The Reading? and substituting it with the two words ?The Reading? is very misleading, vague and does not make any sense
salam.
i dont want to divert the topic here , so i will create a seperate thread for this and reply there (but i m not trying to start a lengthy debate ) ) -
peace.
Do they not carefully analyse the Quran. If it had been from other than Allaah then surely they would have found many discrepancies therein
Are the above people of azzikr?
Peace
i think it is about the rejectors . but i will have to make sure by reading the sura again , or at least some of the surrounding verses . later .
but whats the point ?
.
I think its a general command/advice to anyone, as no one can really have faith/accept the Quran without evidence/out of ignorance. I myself try to find discrepancies and everyone should do that. So it does not refer "only" to the rejectors, its general.
whats it got do with ahluzzikar ?!
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
peace.
Salam,
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate shock
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The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ? -
The point is we should ask the people of knowledge/remembrance and these are anybody, as far as truth come first.
you are missing all the points . when the Koran says "THE Book" , it is not refering to all GENERAL books , but to a SPECEFIC book . in the same way, "THE reminder" is not refering GENERAL reminder but a SPECEFIC reminder , which is contained in the Koran (according to 381) . do u reject verse 381 ?
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts. I do not agree that there are people who are expert on the Quran, logically it means nothing to me for someone to be an expert on the Quran. Are you talking about Islamic/Muslim Scholars? I am confused. Please eleborate
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ?Salam bro I do not reject verse 381. What is the specific reminder?
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salam bro .
salam.
you just dodged verse 381 . i asked do u reject verse 381 ?Salam bro I do not reject verse 381. What is the specific reminder?
ok . it is an attribute of the Book . when u read it , it keeps on reminding you (about many things for example about the blessings of God and His punishments etc ) .
and this is what people of the reminder do
5045 ...So remind with the Quran those who fear My promise.
i hope u understand now .
salam.
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Salam,
thanks for your information. I myself when I remind with the Quran I use the circumstances and the condition we are in alot. I do believe its true that we remind first with the Quran, but expert advice we should consult people who know on the details of the topic concerned. The danger nowadays is people go to the Imams, Mol-Vs, holy guys with long beards-dressed in gowns and pair of Caterpillers.
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Salam,
thanks for your information. I myself when I remind with the Quran I use the circumstances and the condition we are in alot. I do believe its true that we remind first with the Quran, but expert advice we should consult people who know on the details of the topic concerned. The danger noawads is prople go to the Imams, Mol-Vs, holy guys with long beards-dressed in gowns and pair of Caterpillers.
salam.
u r welcome .regarding your question
Why should we ask the people of the Quran on every matter? Quran is not a detail solution to everything. Hence it is recomended to ask the experts.
i had already replied to this one here
bmbmm wrote
I thought it means to ask people with knowledge. From what you are saying (people of the Quran) we are restricting ourselves and furthermore it does not help much as "what really are people of the Quran"? For instance, if I have something to ask about the details an astronomical event I will ask NASA scientists, as it really does not matter, and I don't think they have to be people of the Quran. Also if its related to genomic analysis of a fly I will consult UC Berkley as they sequenced it.
darbaari wrote
if u want to ask about the above information , u will ask the appropriate people/scientists . but if u want to ask about the information in context of 1643 , u will ask the people who posses the Remembrance/Reminder(Koran) . who will support their answers with the verses of the Koran .
salam.
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Salam,
Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
Peace
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Peace bmbmm,
Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
WE are the people of the reminder. You, me, everyone.
4344 And this is indeed a reminder for you and your people; and you will all be questioned.
We should try to form our own understanding of Allah's message using our mind, intellect, reason, and knowledge, and we should not follow our desires.
1024 It is such that We clarify the revelations to a people who think (yatafakkaroona).
3028 It is such that We clarify the revelations for a people who have sense (ya'aqiloona).
3029 No, those who were wrong followed their desires without knowledge. So who can guide one whom God misguides? And they will have no victors.He also advises us not to follow/cause to follow what we have no knowledge of
1736 And do not follow/cause to follow what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
We should also consult with our fellow colleagues about their understanding and then follow the best of it. We should ask Allah for guidance as only Allah can guide us and we should put our trust in Allah. Allah will judge us according to our actions and understandings and I am sure He will take into account our limitations.
4238 And those who have responded to their Lord, and they uphold the contact-method, and their affairs are conducted by mutual consultation among themselves, and from Our provisions to them they give.
3159 It was a mercy from God that you were soft towards them; had you been harsh and mean hearted, they would have dispersed from you; so pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them in the matter; but when you are convinced, then put your trust in God; God loves those who trust.
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
3955 And follow the best of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, before the retribution comes to you suddenly when you least expect it.3147 And they did not say except "Our Lord, forgive us our sins and our shortcomings in our responsibility, and make firm our foothold, and grant us victory over the rejecting people."
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Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
peace.
ahluzzikr would be include anyone who can remind using the koran . it doesnt have to be mullahs and Imams, Pirs etc. . they hardly ever quote from the koran.peace.
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Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all. -
Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all.peace.
hand cutting is the punishment for theft and flogging for adultery . sex slavery is wrong concept . what blind irrational beliefs ?they are ppl of zikr if they dont contradict the zikr .
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Peace darbari. Hand-cutting and floggings are irrational beliefs in todays society,as are some of the inheritance laws,marriage laws,laws of dealing with non-muslims,scientific and moral incompleteness of the book,historical contradictions etc.. The belief in everthing being from god,yet evil being from ourself is irrational and contradictory when interpreted traditionally. How do we know when the zikr(reminder.) is contradicted? What is the criterion for judging the book itself? (i hope your not going to say the book judges itself? ! shock D .)
The language of the quran is sometimes obscure,unclear and limited.
peace all. Ps;what is salat and hajj in this clear book? D