The meaning of Islam

el-Aziz

and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?

Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

S L M means to make complete in opposite of causing disharmony. This is the original meaning of the word, no doubt. Why S L M would have evolved into "to submit" remains a mystery to me and therefor I reject such a far fetched explanation.

I don't understand why you keep asking this question when being all reluctant to try to grasp any explanation but your standard muslim one.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Someone,

Would you defend yourself if attacked?

Yes, that would be "keeping the peace", and hopefully my mental state would still remain at peace while I am defending myself so that I dont go overboard and kill the person, which might happen if I let my emotions have free reign. Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.

agentxxx

peace brother id1,

Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.

INDEED

peace.

unknownuser

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

It means 'to be in peace' or 'to be safe and sound' which implies peace.

sorry, verb TO BE in arabic is "TAKOON"

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

I disagree with that completely. The root method is not flawed, it is just that nothing is absolute. Arabic is based off of roots, mainly, but it is also based off of loan words and archaic words that come from roots that no longer existed anymore when Muhammad (God bless him) spoke the language at that time called Arabic.

we have to agree to disagree then, agreed?

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

It is not that ladder has anything to do with salaam it is that the form that the word follow can have to do with salaam. Sillim is as the same from as fi'-'il. That is the problem, step out of your langauge for a second and look at it in strictly grammatical terms. You are too invested.

LOL bro, you created the wazn on the english letters

well Sillim wazn, is not as you said it is with a shadda on the second letter, and btw I only talk by grammar in arabic, at least I learnt it and it seems you didn't, LOL

i found it also funny that you want me to step out of what I learnt at schoold for 12 years in egypt and follow you who hardly knows the arabic grammar, not sure if you even speak arabic wink

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.

without tashkil, there are many arabic roots that are two letters, i will try to find a few in the books I have, but these books for you are corrupted right?

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

This is wrong. The Quran is not the origin of the langauge.

you missed me here, i meant the origin of the prefection ion the language, not how the arabs used to talk back then

Muhammad and his contemporaries, the poets of old and even the people who recorded the hadeeth spoke the same Arabic. The Quran used THEIR langugage to communicate HIS message. The words in the Quran are not God's. They are the words of men, and specifically the men of that time. Not even the phrases are God's, the message and the message alone is God's. That is what is distorting your view of this issue. Your approach is all wrong.(knowing you I know that statement is going to piss you off).

STOP accusing me of being distirted, i actually see you very distoryted indeed

the Quran Arabic is superior to whatever they used to talk back then, this is their own admission in the hadith that you are making it sound that you read it

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

The Quran is in ancient Arabic.

utter BS

the Quran is very advanced Arabic up to this very moment

It is that it's Arabic has been preserved and is still revered as elegant speech. What you consider balagha most Arabs consider archaisms. Don't worry, it's not just English that has this problem.

I'm not worried, neither I care what is in the english langugae really lol

Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 129 pm Post subject

progod wrote
Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all.

Sure Anwar, sorry for the mix up, sometimes it is hard to figure out what the others stand for especially when we all are strangers

progod wrote
That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace

and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?

Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

progod wrote
as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.

so you agreed first then you came back trying hard to prove it again, what sense is that bro?

progod wrote
I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.

ok so you agreed again

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

Quote
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?

progod wrote
There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam,

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

progod wrote
but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either.

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

progod wrote
There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root.

now we are compatible

progod wrote
You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

progod wrote
But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in.

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

progod wrote
What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc.

honestly and Allah is my witness, I was a top student in the Arabic grammar, and I loved it for 12 years during my studies and still do

That should help you understand this issue better. But you should take into consideration that you learned more than just grammar. You learned ideas ABOUT Arabic and not explaining Arabic.

well for the hadith use of Arabic language, I consider it crap, in fact I can almost find a grammar error in every hadith

Mind sharing them?

excuse me, the Arabic Quran is my native language, in fact and I swear by Allah, when I read the Quran it sounds more native to me than when I talk to others in Arabic or read any other Arabic book

Sounds like your confusing things. You know very well that Arabic Quran is NOT your native language. You are lying to me and yourself. I'm not talking about how you feel about the language.

For the Arabic I learnt at school, of course I agree that it is not the Arabic spoken 1000 years ago, but you are missing the point, they taught me in school how the arabs 1000 years ago used to talk

Now we are starting to get to the truth. And with what they taught you they taught your for their limits about the depth of Arabic grammar and its forms. And that is why I'm trying to get you to understand. Respect the works of those who devoted themselves to that ancient language, and stop assuming that your modern langauge and skills totally encompass the language of the Quran and you need not consult the dictionaries or the grammar books because you SPEAK the langauge (which just means that you are very familiar with it)

The Quran is a God words and whatever they spoke back then is human words
Comparing the hadith of those people with the hadith of the Quran we will discover that there no comparison in its beauty and lack of errors
The hadith is very hard to understand and you need other sources to understand it, while you only need the Quran to understand the Quran, this is evident as we know that Mohammad never explained the whole Quran only less than 40% of it (a wild guess that is)

Therefore, what applied on the arabs 1000 years ago regarding the Quran Arabic compared to their Arabic is the exact same regarding now days, the Quran stays superior above all

THe Quran's words are human words. Not God's words. The phrase "Word of God" is metaphorical and refers to the message not the literal words. That is something that any mediocre intelligent person can see.(you'll probably stop reading objectively after this because your probably mad now)
The hadeeth is just as easy to understand as the Quran in my opinion. You don't have to take passage of the QUran (from how you understand them) and force them to be your reality. There are passages in the Quran that need to be looked a number of times as there are also hadeeth in the same category.

You also took the conept of i'jaaz and you have really taken it too far. This is a Islamic idea that you have taken as given without really checking.

Godbless,
Anwar

Ok anwar thank you, but I donlt lie though

el-Aziz

No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.

By word, I assume you mean root, correct?
You're anyway not right, there are many arab words that are based on e.g. two radicals or a root of two letters, such as

huwa, b?b, hajj

The third letter of the last word is a doubled second one though it still springs from a two radical root word.

/S

progod

Huwa doesn't count. I'm talking about verbs not pronouns. And baab is based on baa, waw, baa (in that order, it is three letters it just has two baa's), and hajj is based off of haa, jeem, jeem (the jeem is doubled it is really two jeems.)

Godbless,
Anwar

progod

The two jeems in hajja join together from an orginal hajaja or hajija or even hajuja (say hajija, hajaja or hajuja really fast 10 times and see how it blends into hajja, that is why the words that have two last radicals that are the same letter blended into a doubled letter) It is also why they separate when you conjugate the letter into different froms like hijaaj or hajeej or ihtijaaj.) Just as this happens in words like yartadidu and its equivalent yartaddu. haarirun joins to become haarrun and daawlilun joins to become daawllun, etc. etc.

This is the morphology of Classical Arabic and there are plenty of examples in good grammar books of two equal forms and verbs that show this same pattern of assimilation. I can't say if the pronouns came from three letter roots, but they are pronouns.

Arabic verbs always are based off of 3 or 4 letter roots. There are not two letter or 5 letter roots of words.

Godbless,
Anwar

progod

sorry, verb TO BE in arabic is "TAKOON"

Translate 'karuma' or 'salima' into English please.

LOL bro, you created the wazn on the english letters

well Sillim wazn, is not as you said it is with a shadda on the second letter, and btw I only talk by grammar in arabic, at least I learnt it and it seems you didn't, LOL

i found it also funny that you want me to step out of what I learnt at schoold for 12 years in egypt and follow you who hardly knows the arabic grammar, not sure if you even speak arabic

You know what I meant. I really just don't know how to put Arabic characters on the computer. In fi' 'il the ' stands for ain. It really isn't as funny as you think. And I'm really getting the impression that you are just arrogant and rude the more I talk to you. I deal with pricks all day, please don't add yourself to that list.

If you would open up your eyes and open up your ears and listen maybe you might see that what you learned in Egypt for 12 years is not all of the Arabic language. Take that form that I gave you fi'-'il. Look it up and see what it can imply. These are innate forms in Classical Arabic that usually have specific meanings. Yes sillim means stairs. But follow it's Arabic patterns it could have also had another meaning amongst the people who spoke the langauge of the Quran. Remember that God sends messages to people in their langauge. So the Quran spoke Muhammad's language (just eloquently), not the other way around. Conisder the wors like hasnaa', siddeeq etc, etc. that are based off of "unusual forms". Seeing that fa'l in many cases equals faa'il like abd and other words an that even the form fa'il like wajil exist that are just shortenings of the long form 'faa'il' take into considerations that the form fi''il even though it may be rare is a shortening of fi' 'eel'

without tashkil, there are many arabic roots that are two letters, i will try to find a few in the books I have, but these books for you are corrupted right?

You keep talking about how you studied grammar for so long, but you still don't get it. language are verbal before they are ever written. The Arabic system of writing (which you feel so attached to and vested in) is based off the Aramaic, and follows in the same traditons that the reader has to already be familiar with the words and must be able to sense the context in order to read correctly. Hajja, dawlla, shabba, shanna whether you see two radicals at the end or not has two radicals. If you didn't double the sound at the end it wouldn't be a word at all.

you missed me here, i meant the origin of the prefection ion the language, not how the arabs used to talk back then

The Quran didn't perfect the language at all. It use the language of Muhammad his people in an eloquent way to communicate the message of God. That is it. Don't accredit superpowers to the Quran and don't assume that the Quran revolutionized Arabic just because God revealed it in Arabic. God just used the langauge of the ancient Arabs to reveal his message in an eloquent way.

the Quran Arabic is superior to whatever they used to talk back then, this is their own admission in the hadith that you are making it sound that you read it

So just because you and the people who wrote the Hadeeth believed in its eloquence and practically worshipped the book should I also believe what they believed. I believe that the book is eloquent indeed but when you put something up on a pedestool like that and you are committed to that belief, everything you do, even the language that you speak will be not equal to it (in your head). Leave I'jaaz alone. If that is all that you learned in 12 years then I really can't rely on what you say.

utter BS

the Quran is very advanced Arabic up to this very moment

Just because it was written in ancient Arabic doesn't mean that it's ideas are limited to those ancient times.

Ok anwar thank you, but I donlt lie though

No, thank you for atleast sharing your ideas with me. Maybe one day we can see each other eye to eye. I don't believe that you are lying I think you just have the wrong set of glasses on, so you are seeing things in the wrong light.

Godbless,
Anwar

unknownuser

Hello

I checked the grammars book I have and found that the root can be 3,4,5,6 letters, i will bring some examples later

Salam

el-Aziz

Huwa doesn't count. I'm talking about verbs not pronouns.

Fine, but that's not what you said in the first place

No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.

And baab is based on baa, waw, baa (in that order, it is three letters it just has two baa's), and hajj is based off of haa, jeem, jeem (the jeem is doubled it is really two jeems.)

Not really. In classical Arabic, shaddas don't even exist. The word hajj springs springs from Hebrew chet - gimel or chag (meaning festival or holiday) and is pronounced like doubling the ladder whilst its not really a matter of two letters. It works very much like English it that could fully accurate be transcribed as itt while its not a matter of an actual three lettered word.
When it comes to b?b, I assume you "traced" this root from openburhan (which by the way is an excellent tool)? I can assure you there is nothing implying that there's a waw hidden somewhere in the origin of that word. B?b is also just b?' - b?' in classical Arabic. The later alef was inserted to clarify the stress and to separate it from a possible babb

Hope this helps,
S

el-Aziz

I checked the grammars book I have and found that the root can be 3,4,5,6 letters, i will bring some examples later

You still claim to be a native Arab speaker?

unknownuser

I checked the grammars book I have and found that the root can be 3,4,5,6 letters, i will bring some examples later

You still claim to be a native Arab speaker?

hey smart arse, how old are ya?

you sound like a kiddo anyway, i guess i have to ignore your bum

c u

unknownuser

"you sound like a kiddo anyway, i guess i have to ignore your bum "

With this type of lingo-

Perfectly possible to lose all credibility according to my understandings of the quran Br.

Sincerely.

unknownuser

"you sound like a kiddo anyway, i guess i have to ignore your bum "

With this type of lingo-

Perfectly possible to lose all credibility according to my understandings of the quran Br.

Sincerely.

oh come on

what creditability you are talking about exactly?

i said there is roots of 2,3,4,5 letters

the kiddo said there is 3,4,5

someone added that there is also 2 letters root

i confirmed and said there is 3,4,5,6

what is the kiddo problem exactly other than being a kiddo?, and it seems you are trying hard since i jouined to join him, fine you joined him

oh yeh he meant when i said there 2 letters root and there is not?

well he didn't say that there is roots with six letters either lol

I hope you like this lingo and don't forget to shove that crediabilty you are talking about into some place you like

el-Aziz

I checked the grammars book I have and found that the root can be 3,4,5,6 letters, i will bring some examples later

You still claim to be a native Arab speaker? P

hey smart arse, how old are ya?

you sound like a kiddo anyway, i guess i have to ignore your bum

...still you don't.

unknownuser

I checked the grammars book I have and found that the root can be 3,4,5,6 letters, i will bring some examples later

You still claim to be a native Arab speaker? P

hey smart arse, how old are ya?

you sound like a kiddo anyway, i guess i have to ignore your bum

...still you don't. )

you mean not ignore your bum?

well, it is not offical yet but it is in the process of being so

let me give you the reasons before it is offical

you called me a liar directly, then
you called me a liar indirectly

and honestly anwar, you won't be able to take my punches if i decide to punch you, but i decided to ignore your bum instead

now it is offical unless you say sorry for calling me a liar

unknownuser

Hey mate ,

you said

"I hope you like this lingo and don't forget to shove that crediabilty you are talking about into some place you like"

I think you won't like that though.

Thanks for the offer.

unknownuser

Hey mate ,

you said

"I hope you like this lingo and don't forget to shove that crediabilty you are talking about into some place you like"

I think you won't like that though.

Thanks for the offer.

LOL

Well, possibly we have some sort of misunderstanding here, we have confused the public arena indeed

how about you state where you like to shove it and i will confirm if it will be allowed wink

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

Insults, punches?

All in the course of discussing PEACE? Ridiculous. Why waste our time?

Someone

Peace be upon you Someone,

Would you defend yourself if attacked?

Yes, that would be "keeping the peace", and hopefully my mental state would still remain at peace while I am defending myself so that I dont go overboard and kill the person, which might happen if I let my emotions have free reign. Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.

Peace upon you idolfree1,

So it is only a matter of word's choice, but we are basically talking about the same thing ) as long as you are keeping your god-given right to defend yourself and yours...

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