Some Of You Don't believe in "Allahu Akbar"?
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Peace all,
I apologize if anyone thought that i was implying them to be mushrik or rejecter. I was trying to make general statements to put forth my understanding, which I admit can be flawed, for the purpose of having a discussion to find the truth about certain matters. I realize that I should be very careful and not use words that might cause a misunderstanding of me accusing someone of committing shirk. I will try to be extra careful in the future about that. Sometimes the word "you" is used to make a general statement but might cause misunderstanding that someone else is being accused of something. The words "we" or "one" would be better.
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Salam Tanveer, all,
Salaamun alaikum Myr,
Thank you sister Myr for correcting my understanding. You have a point. However, instead of Allahu akbaru kabeera it should be Allahu akbaru al-kubbar to be on the same level as arhamu al-rahemeen. My revised understanding would be as follows
........Hence it follows that Allah can be compared in terms of a particular attribute but INCOMPARABLE OVERALL.
Sorry for the late reply but I just wanted to say that Allah akbaru kabeer is nothing else than God is greater than great. What you suggested is also correct and means God is greater than the great(s). I think what matters to me is to make sense of and pay close attention to things we utter. I caught myself several times in the past uttering things that don't make sense and to a certain extent may sound disrescpectful to God the All-Mighty. For instance saying my lord I need this or that, as if HE does not know what I really need so these past few years I am much more carefull with what I utter. And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr. -
Peace Myr, Ahmed, all,
I understand that but I just wanted to say that you have no 100% guarantee that the prophet said it-). I am very careful with that Brother because I became very very allergic to anything and everything associated or attributed to the prophet-). There are all kinds of things associated to him and even that degrades him and I think the man deserves our respect as to not continue to attribute to him things we have no knowledge of except that imam X said this and imam Y narrated that-). Poor man, even 14 centuries later, and we continue to put words in his mouth-).
Well said sister Myr.
When we are asked by Allah to do something in "al-qur'aan", we submit by doing it according to how Allah tells us to do it in "al-qur'aan" and authorizes it in "al-qur'aan". We cannot INVENT our own way which is not authorized by Allah. Remember, relevant to our guidance, "al-qur'aan" is fully detailed, contains every example, is complete, and Allah does not neglect anything from it, nor does He forget.
413 A Scripture whose verses are explained in detail (fussilat), a compilation in Arabic for a people who know.
Allah asks us to "nuqim al-salat" (uphold salat), "nusabih Allah" (glorify Allah), "nahmadu Allah" (praise Allah), "nashkur Allah" (thank Allah), "nukabir Allah" (magnify/glorify Allah).
We "nuqim al-salat" by turning towards Allah, reciting and understanding "al-qur'aan", thereby hearing it and then humbly obeying what Allah tells us in "al-qur'aan"
We dont "nuqim al-salat" just by saying "aqeem al-salat".
We "nusabih Allah" by saying the beautiful names of Allah mentioned in al-qur'aan. We can also say or "subhana Allah", as those phrases are mentioned in al-qur'aan.
We cannot "nusabih Allah" by saying names/attributes not mentioned by Allah for Himself in al-qur'aan.
We "nahmadu Allah" by saying "alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-'alameena" and also by saying His beautiful names mentioned in al-qur'aan.
We cannot "nahmadu Allah" by saying names/attributes not mentioned by Allah for Himself in al-qur'aan.
We "nashkur Allah" by saying as that is how He tells us in al-qur'aan.
We cannot "nashkur Allah" by saying "Allahu Shakir" or "Allahu Shakoor" as that will be absurd. We can however "nusabih Allah" or "nahmadu Allah" by saying "Allahu Shakir" or "Allahu Shakoor".
We "nukabir Allah" by saying His beautiful names, as His beautiful names mention His ABSOLUTE attributes that no one else can have to the same degree. We can also "nukabir Allah" by saying "Allahu Akram" or "Allahu Arham Al-Rahemeen" as these superlative attributes are mentioned by Allah for Himself in al-qur'aan.
We cannot "nukabir Allah" by inventing an attribute/name for Allah, not mentioned in al-qur'aan, thereby not authorized by Him. When someone says "Allahu akbar" then "akbar" becomes an adjective or an attribute of Allah, which is not authorized by Allah in al-qur'aan.
"akbar" is a superlative.
SUPERLATIVE Expressing the highest or lowest degree of the quality, manner, etc., denoted by an adjective or an adverb.
ADJECTIVE Added to a substantive as an attribute; a word that expresses an attribute of something
NAME A descriptive or qualifying appellation or attribute given to a person or thing, on account of a character or acts. Example His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father.
By using "akbar" in "Allahu akbar" it becomes an attribute/name of Allah.
Allah NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER mentions "akbar" to describe Himself or as an attribute for Himself in al-qur'aan. Did Allah forget ?
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Peace,
If I may add
Quran is a book to clarify two main points (Principles)
1- Clarifying , The Oneness of the SOURCE, The oneness and purposefullness of creation. where it comes from and where it is headed.
2- Clarifying, the seriouseness of our responsibility to DO GOOD and To be GOOD. Compassion and Justice are the two key words.OF course also there are many instructions in how to do things!
As we can see in many countries people follow the instruction in the way that they understand it and forget about the MAIN SUBJECT ; the principles.
SO Believing the word of GOD should be TOP-DOWN. and not Bottom-up.
So NOT from instructions to principles but from principles then instructions.And if we see a contradiction between the principles and instructions then our understanding of either or both of them is wrong.
peace,
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Thanks brother tanveermd
I have noticed that you are mixing the tasbih with zikr Allah by His authorised names, do you think that the two actions are the same?
But I agree that Nusabih (first person) means to say ?Subhana Allah?, or ?Subahnak Allahum?, or ?Subhan Rabi Al Azim?, or ?Subhan Rabi Al Aala, or ?Subhanak Ini Konta Min Al Zalimin? and possibly a couple mopore that I'm not aware of right now
I?m just looking at you comment bit by bit so i don?t get confused, so i will reply to another boit later on, sorry
Salam
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I have noticed that you are mixing the tasbih with zikr Allah by His authorised names, do you think that the two actions are the same?
Why can't we praise Allah (nusabih Allah) by saying His beautiful names ?
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I have noticed that you are mixing the tasbih with zikr Allah by His authorised names, do you think that the two actions are the same?
Why can't we praise Allah (nusabih Allah) by saying His beautiful names ?
Peace mate
I see it for the following reason
When he told us to "Nusabih Him", (first person), He never told us to use His names, rather what we say
I'm trying to apply the Quran restrictly as you are suggesting regarding Nukabir Him order
what I'm trying to set is this
I'm sure > Nusabih is not like Nazkur, is not like Nashkur, is not like Naddu, is not like Nukabir
so please can you tell me how we can Nukabir Allah while what we do should be different to the other required actions?
Salam
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Peace brother Ahmed,
so please can you tell me how we can Nukabir Allah while what we do should be different to the other required actions?
We can "nukabir Allah" by saying "Allahu Akram" or "Allahu Arham Al-Rahemeen".
Nukabir is to magnify and the superlatives "Akram" and "Arham Al-Rahemeen" magnify Allah, and is the qur'aanic way.
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Peace alpha97. Very good post on the serious responsibility to do good,and discover/follow truth..........rather than defending dogmatic/unverified ideas,and arguing over different interpretations of unverified and/or multiple meaning words.
Peace all. -
Peace brother Ahmed,
so please can you tell me how we can Nukabir Allah while what we do should be different to the other required actions?
We can "nukabir Allah" by saying "Allahu Akram"
Peace bro
The verse was clear bro, the action was to read "Iqaa" and to say in the Name of Allah The Akram
it has nothing to do with Takbir because there was no order to "nukabir" rarher tp read
or "Allahu Arham Al-Rahemeen".
while it may be valid as you are saying that Allah is Akbar in the case of Rahmah, however you limited the Kibr on Rahmah only
therefore saying Allah Akbar is very valid because it will cover everything including the Rahmah, as well it is a straight action to the order "Kabbiro Allah"
Nukabir is to magnify and the superlatives "Akram" and "Arham Al-Rahemeen" magnify Allah, and is the qur'aanic way.
Yes but again you limited the action of Takbir to only two things, while Allah Akbar covers everything that we know or we donlt know
peace
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Peace brother Ahmed,
Yes but again you limited the action of Takbir to only two things, while Allah Akbar covers everything that we know or we donlt know
As I have mentioned over and over again, calling Allah "akbar" has no authority from Allah and has no qur'aanic basis. It is just a conjecture on your part. "Nukabir" is to magnify, not necessarily magnify in ALL aspects. As long as one magnifies Allah in any way its ok as long as it is authorized by Allah and has a qur'aanic basis. I am sorry but you have not been able to come up with any solid qur'aanic proof of your claim, whereas I have already shown you how to "nukabir" Allah using qur'aanic attributes and have clearly shown you that Allah does not sanction us or our forefathers creating names for Him that He has not authorized. I have already shown you that the attributes of Allah mentioned in al-qur'aan are also His names and vice versa. Unless you have qur'aanic proof of your claims, its a moot point to continue this discussion.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
Yes but again you limited the action of Takbir to only two things, while Allah Akbar covers everything that we know or we donlt know
As I have mentioned over and over again, calling Allah "akbar" has no authority from Allah and has no qur'aanic basis. It is just a conjecture on your part. "Nukabir" is to magnify, not necessarily magnify in ALL aspects. As long as one magnifies Allah in any way its ok as long as it is authorized by Allah and has a qur'aanic basis. I am sorry but you have not been able to come up with any solid qur'aanic proof of your claim, whereas I have already shown you how to "nukabir" Allah using qur'aanic attributes and have clearly shown you that Allah does not sanction us or our forefathers creating names for Him that He has not authorized. I have already shown you that the attributes of Allah mentioned in al-qur'aan are also His names and vice versa. Unless you have qur'aanic proof of your claims, its a moot point to continue this discussion.
Peace bro
yeh bro my quranic prove is what Abraham said "Haza Akbar" which means "Rabi Akbar" which means "Allah Akbar"
you will tell me this weak point that he meant the sun is bigger than the moon, well, i have to disagree as if you look at the full moon you will see that its diameter is almost identical to the sun diameter
therefore Allah is Akbar from anything, Abraham has no means to say that the sun is bigger than the moon therefore he meant that Allah is bigger than the moon
yeh you are right bro, it is pointless to continue this discussion, however you have to know that the history records also confirmed that the prophet said it zillions of times, therefore the Quran and the history records does not conflict in here
Salam
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Peace Ahmed,
Firstly, the reason Abraham said that the sun was "akbar" meaning greater is because the moon disappeared and the sun appeared after that, thereby superseding it, not because the sun is bigger in apparent size.
Secondly, Allah NEVER describes Himself as akbar in al-qur'aan. Just because Abraham used the word "akbar" for the sun, even when he mistakenly thought it to be his "rabb", does not mean that it is the attribute of Allah, as Allah Himself never authorized it or used it for Himself in al-qur'aan. All messengers have made mistakes, and just because a messenger uses a word does not mean it is sanctioned or authorized by Allah. Just like Dhulqarnain said he saw the sun setting in a lake, does not mean it actually set in a lake. Just because the Jews said Ezra is son of Allah does not mean that Allah has a son. Your logic is totally flawed and you have no evidence from al-qur'aan to support your claim that "akbar" is an attribute of Allah.
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Peace Ahmed,
Firstly, the reason Abraham said that the sun was "akbar" meaning greater is because the moon disappeared and the sun appeared after that, thereby superseding it, not because the sun is bigger in apparent size.
Secondly, Allah NEVER describes Himself as akbar in al-qur'aan. Just because Abraham used the word "akbar" for the sun, even when he mistakenly thought it to be his "rabb", does not mean that it is the attribute of Allah, as Allah Himself never authorized it or used it for Himself in al-qur'aan. All messengers have made mistakes, and just because a messenger uses a word does not mean it is sanctioned or authorized by Allah. Just like Dhulqarnain said he saw the sun setting in a lake, does not mean it actually set in a lake. Just because the Jews said Ezra is son of Allah does not mean that Allah has a son. Your logic is totally flawed and you have no evidence from al-qur'aan to support your claim that "akbar" is an attribute of Allah.
Peace mate
Firstly, Allah did, because the words said in the Quran are His words, He was just telling us a story about Abraham, that story is related to Him and how Abraham recognised Him
Secondly, Abraham knew the sun for years before that day when he said Haza Akabar in the story, i.e. He knew that the sun looks the same size as the moon, he also knew for sure that the sun sets every day, he was using it as a metaphore and all related to God, so one of the description Abraham knew by fitrah is simply, Allah Akbar from anything
Thirdly, what is an attribute exactly?, is it something to describe Him?, if yes then your logic is flawed, because it can be considered as an attribute due to what Abraham said about Allah, that Haza Akbar, and Haza here was referring to Allah because Haza is masculine, if he meant the sun then Abraham should have said Hazihi Akbar becaue Al Shams (The Sun) is femenine, you have NO point my friend ;D
Now the messneger (Abraham) used the word and Allah repeated that word, we are not talking hadith here aren't we?
But what Dhulqarnain story has to do with this?, this makes no sense to me man, it seems you don't know what Dhulqarnain was talking about anyway
and for Ezra story, what it has to do exactlywith Allah Akbar?, sorry i missed you there
and finally bro and this is my last comment to you regarding this subject, I have shown enough evidences from the Quran that Akbar can be said about Allah and is actually more dominant than kabir, period
Salam
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I think you did not get what I was saying. Allah is just quoting Abraham. Just like Allah narrated what Dhulqarnain thought he saw. Just like Allah quoted the Jews. Dhulqarnain saw the sun setting in a lake and Allah quoted that in al-qur'aan; does not mean that the sun actually sets in a lake.
1886 Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Dhulqarnain, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."
The above are Allah's words but Allah is just relating what Dhulqarnian thought he saw, does not mean that Allah is telling us as a fact that the sun actually sets in a boiling lake.
The Jews said Ezra is Allah's son, and Allah quoted the Jews; does not mean Allah has a son.
930 The Jews said "Ezra is God's son," and the Nazarenes said "The Messiah is God's son."
The above is Allah quoting the Jews saying that; does not mean that Allah has a son.
Some person said that they are going to die only once and not get resurrected and Allah quoted that in al-qur'aan; does not mean that we are going to die only once and not get resurrected.
4435 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"
The above is in al-qur'aan, but Allah is just quoting someone; does not mean we will not be resurrected and we have only one death.
Just like that Allah is quoting Abraham mistakenly thinking the sun is his Lord and calling the sun akbar; does not mean Allah is akbar and does not mean Allah is sanctioning that attribute for Himself or authorizing it. I don't know how come you cannot understand something so simple as that.
Allah NEVER EVER uses the attribute akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. You have absolutely no point.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I think you did not get what I was saying. Allah is just quoting Abraham. Just like Allah narrated what Dhulqarnain thought he saw. Just like Allah quoted the Jews. Dhulqarnain saw the sun setting in a lake and Allah quoted that in al-qur'aan; does not mean that the sun actually sets in a lake.
1886 Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Dhulqarnain, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good."
The above are Allah's words but Allah is just relating what Dhulqarnian thought he saw, does not mean that Allah is telling us as a fact that the sun actually sets in a boiling lake.
Peace brother
mate, what dhulqarnin said is very accurate from dhulqarnin perspective, in fact this is exactly what dhulqarnin saw, and I'm sure i saw it and you saw it too, have you ever seen the sun setting behind the horizon especially over water?, well it looks like the sun is sinking in water, this is very accurate stuff indeed
but again what that has to do with Allah from the frist place?, was dhulqarnin talking about Allah when he said as such about the sun?, NO, but Abraham was talking about Allah, "Haza Akbar", and Haza is masculine and MUST BE REFERRING TO ALLAH, now in arabic we can remove Haza, Hazihi or Haolaa and replace it with whom it refers to, try it with me please
Haza Akbar = Allah Akbar (Remember that Haza is referring to a musculine and the sun is feminine)
The Jews said Ezra is Allah's son, and Allah quoted the Jews; does not mean Allah has a son.
930 The Jews said "Ezra is God's son," and the Nazarenes said "The Messiah is God's son."
The above is Allah quoting the Jews saying that; does not mean that Allah has a son.
of course it does not because He denied that He has a son in the same Quran, now please show me where it says not to say Allah Akbar about Him?
Some person said that they are going to die only once and not get resurrected and Allah quoted that in al-qur'aan; does not mean that we are going to die only once and not get resurrected.
4435 "There is nothing but our first death; and we will never be resurrected!"
The above is in al-qur'aan, but Allah is just quoting someone; does not mean we will not be resurrected and we have only one death.
Fine, but again Allah denied this stupid claim by the kuffar, please show me where it says donlt say Allah Akbar about Allah in the Quran, I showed you Abraham saying it in the Quran
Just like that Allah is quoting Abraham mistakenly thinking the sun is his Lord and calling the sun akbar; does not mean Allah is akbar and does not mean Allah is sanctioning that attribute for Himself or authorizing it. I don't know how come you cannot understand something so simple as that.
Allah NEVER EVER uses the attribute akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. You have absolutely no point.
LOL
again, you have no bloody point, HAZA AKBAR means Abraham was talking about Allah not the sun because Haza is masculine, if it was about the sun it must be Hazihi Akabar, try and check with another arabic speaker if you don't believe me )
and finally Allah ordered us to take Abraham as a great exmaple of a Muslim, and He said Haza Akbar = Allah Akbar, therefore we should follow his steps
Salam
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Peace Ahmed,
That is the most absurd logic I have ever seen in my life. If what you are saying is true then according to Allah sun sets in a boiling lake, because where has Allah said in al-qur'aan that the sun does not set in a boiling lake ?
I have shown you many verses before where Allah admonishes creating names for Him that He has not authorized. Allah just quotes Abraham and never sanctions akbar as His attribute/name anywhere in al-qur'aan. According to your twisted logic, if Abraham is describing Allah by akbar when he sees the sun then the sun is Allah. Later when Abraham realizes that the sun is not Allah he never repeats the word akbar for Allah. You have absolutely no point. Allah has NEVER EVER used akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan and has not authorized it as His name/attribute in al-qur'aan.
Allah has also asked us to take the example of Prophet Muhammad, but Muhammad comitted some mistakes too. Should we repeat Muhammad's mistakes then ?
Show me anywhere in al-qur'aan where Allah says that a sun DOES NOT set in a boiling lake, only then your twisted logic might fly.
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Peace Ahmed,
That is the most absurd logic I have ever seen in my life. If what you are saying is true then according to Allah sun sets in a boiling lake, because where has Allah said in al-qur'aan that the sun does not set in a boiling lake ? I have shown you many verses before where Allah admonishes creating names for Him that He has not authorized. Allah just quotes Abraham and never sanctions akbar as His attribute/name anywhere in al-qur'aan. According to your twisted logic, if Abraham is describing Allah by akbar when he sees the sun then the sun is Allah. Later when Abraham realizes that the sun is not Allah he never repeats the word akbar for Allah. You have absolutely no point. Allah has NEVER EVER used akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan and has not authorized it as His name/atribute in al-qur'aan.
Allah has also asked us to take the example of Prophet Muhammad, but Muhammad comitted some mistakes too. Should we repeat Muhammad's mistakes then ?
Show me anywhere in al-qur'aan where Allah says that a sun DOES NOT set in a boiling lake, only then your twisted logic might fly.
Salam man
now you have shifted the subject
as i'm telling you i saw it myself at sunset, just go to the beach at sunset and have a look, but don't forget your camera, anyway i actually took a photo of it a few of days ago, i will show it to you later as well i will show you how wrong you understood what dhulqarnin was saying
got to go home now
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Peace Ahmed,
As is typical of your tactics, you have still not shown anywhere where Allah has said in al-qur'aan that the sun DOES NOT set in a BOILING LAKE. I would love to see the camera shot of the sun setting in a BOILING LAKE. So according to your twisted logic Allah says that the sun sets in a boiling lake. Can anything be more absurd than that ?
You will have a point only when you show the verse in al-qur'aan where Allah says that the sun DOES NOT set in a BOILING LAKE, to correct Dhulqarnain.