Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
peace.
ahluzzikr would be include anyone who can remind using the koran . it doesnt have to be mullahs and Imams, Pirs etc. . they hardly ever quote from the koran.peace.
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Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all. -
Peace darbari. Some of the peole who remind with the quran justify hand-choppings,floggings,sex slaves,blind irrational beliefs etc... Are these the people of knowledge?
peace all.peace.
hand cutting is the punishment for theft and flogging for adultery . sex slavery is wrong concept . what blind irrational beliefs ?they are ppl of zikr if they dont contradict the zikr .
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Peace darbari. Hand-cutting and floggings are irrational beliefs in todays society,as are some of the inheritance laws,marriage laws,laws of dealing with non-muslims,scientific and moral incompleteness of the book,historical contradictions etc.. The belief in everthing being from god,yet evil being from ourself is irrational and contradictory when interpreted traditionally. How do we know when the zikr(reminder.) is contradicted? What is the criterion for judging the book itself? (i hope your not going to say the book judges itself? ! shock D .)
The language of the quran is sometimes obscure,unclear and limited.
peace all. Ps;what is salat and hajj in this clear book? D -
salam.
Peace darbari. Hand-cutting and floggings are irrational beliefs in todays society,as are some of the inheritance laws,marriage laws,laws of dealing with non-muslims,scientific and moral incompleteness of the book,historical contradictions etc..
people might consider hand cutting and flogging irrational . i dont care . what has it got to do with "ahluzzikr" ?
The belief in everthing being from god,yet evil being from ourself is irrational and contradictory when interpreted traditionally. How do we know when the zikr(reminder.) is contradicted? What is the criterion for judging the book itself? (i hope your not going to say the book judges itself? ! shock D .)
u are not asking for the proof again , or are u ? ?
The language of the quran is sometimes obscure,unclear and limited.
peace all. Ps;what is salat and hajj in this clear book? Dsalat is the 'daily prayers' . i havent studied hajj yet . and have to study salat properly .
salam.
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Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief? Im just making you aware of something,not insulting you. )
Peace all. -
Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief? Im just making you aware of something,not insulting you. )
Peace all.Salam
Exactly! Thats what I am trying to say that we have to consult the people who know, so that we can have our problems solved. Going back to the people who know the Quran is OK, but these experties are not restricted to people who know the Quran. I think people of remembrance can be anyone, because anyone can remember lol . If it say people of furqan than I will think about people who have the knowledge to judge, and eye for detail etc etc, which obviously has to include the Quran as it is furqan (Criterion) from the Creator who knows.
Anyway most of the translators have translated "the people who knows".
And we will stick to that, as it makes perfect sense.Peace
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Peace darbari. So you dont know what haj is or what salat is properly,yet you believe in all the verses of the book? Why? Isnt this believing without study or verification, ie blind belief?
how is it blind belief ? i dont believe in any particular understanding of hajj . but i believe that the book is from God . cuz that is the first thing that i studied .
what u are saying is like "since u havent studied a topic of a particular book , hence the book cannot be from the author that it claims to be from ." !
peace.
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Peace Darbari. Ok,so you are telling me you havent studied all this book,yet you claim it is all from god and are willing to place your whole life-view on it?.... Do you see my point?
What are the bits that you studied that made you think it is all from god?
Peace all. -
peace.
Peace Darbari. Ok,so you are telling me you havent studied all this book,yet you claim it is all from god and are willing to place your whole life-view on it?.... Do you see my point?
you didnt see my point.
What are the bits that you studied that made you think it is all from god?
u are always either diverting the current topic to "how do u know it is from God" or ignoring and not replying whenever your understanding of the koranic verses is proven incorrect .
i have compiled some 'bits' here
www.geocities.com/thewisekoran/signs.htmi hope u find them helpful.
peace. -
Peace darbari. The main problem with your theory that science,history etc..confirms the quran, is that you only take the science that either agrees with the quran or that you can fit a verse into by intellectual gymnastics or re-interpretation of the related verse.
Let me ask you...,if science/history actually disproved a verse would you still believe in the whole quran or reject the clear science/history? Please dont say no science has ever contradicted the quran,beacause some science does. The arguements of historical accuracy are also flawed because much history contradicts the quran. I feel you guys only agree with studies that agree with the quran and reject those that disagree with it...Thats not open-minded or unbiased,is it?
Peace all. -
peace enquirer .
the problem is that this is a Koranic forum and most members already believe in the divinity of the Koran , so it is u who will have to disprove the Koran . we dont have to prove its divinity everytime u r caught contradicting the Koran .
p.s. if i find that a established fact seems to contradict the koran , i will take my time , read about it and if i cant refute it , then i will reject the koran
edited
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Salam,
I think its not just the quran and its conformity with scientific facts! The science or what ever in the Quran needs to be researched on. There are researchers around doing their jobs whether they follow the quran or not. I really think that we should ask the people who know, and these are experts in their fields, whether they believe in Quran or not. Scientific/logical research I believe ultimatly arrive/discover the truth.
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Don't you think that this understanding (asking people of the Quran) lead people to the Mol-Vs, Imams, Pir, Holy man and into the folds a monastic believe. I myself see people having questions are going to these people who are not helping them. Perhaps you should give me an example/cheracter of the people of remembrance. Who are these?
peace.
ahluzzikr would be include anyone who can remind using the koran . it doesnt have to be mullahs and Imams, Pirs etc. . they hardly ever quote from the koran.peace.
Very true
Peace
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Peace darbari and bmbmm. Darbari,now that i know your position,i see you are trying to keep an open-mind,...which is very heartening to see. D (which was the basis of my posts to you.) Take it easy and peace.
Bmbmm,i agree lets see what experts in various fields can come up with that is true/verifiable,...it doesnt matter whether they know quran or not,knowledge is knowledge. Ps;What new scientific discoveries have quranic scholars come up with in the last 800 years? shock
Peace all. -
ahluzzikr would be include anyone who can remind using the koran
Where is the evidence for the above ?
Peace
381 Suaad, and the Quran that contains the Reminder.
peace.
Salam Darbaari,
I like your open-minded approach too lol I agree the quran contain the reminder, so as my lap-top and my phone. My lap-top reminds me when the bettery is full or when it is down. Just joking lol Anyway ahluzzikr does not include who remind with anything else, such as the sun, stars or the moon?
Peace
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I like your open-minded approach too lol I agree the quran contain the reminder, so as my lap-top and my phone. My lap-top reminds me when the bettery is full or when it is down. Just joking lol Anyway ahluzzikr does not include who remind with anything else, such as the sun, stars or the moon?
no. ahluzzikr doesn not include those who remind with anything else such as sun,moon etc .
peace.