Did Lot offer her daughters for sex?
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oh yeh he was a very good jew, he created the atomic bomb that killed thousands and thousands of innocent humans
he must be in heaven now
And his creation electrcity has save the lives of million and millions and improve the lives of million and millions.This Jew benefited every one regardless of religion ethinicty and creed.
a typical atheist statement, nothing new really, sorry
A typical Islamic statement ,nothing new really,sorry.
a baseless and unfounded statement, Allah created thel anguages and it is up to Him to choose which one to use to send His messages, and I?m sure He used more than one language for His consistant messages to humanity that were sealed by the Arabic Quran
Unfortunatlly almighty was unable to protect those messages and was only able to protect the Arabic one as Muslim claims yet there is Hafs and Warsh versions to disqualify that claim.
For the sex issue, yeh you are right, the corrupt Bible discriminate between men and woman for no logical reason, now show me how the Quran did the same, I can show you how the bible did it and I?m sure you will agree, now I?m not saying that the bible "as is now" is the true inspiration of God, in fact it is not after it got corrupted by sick humans
Why should i care about Bible.Quran and Bible looks same to me alot of illogicall things combine with some good thoughts.About the discrimination b/n man n woman in Quran certainly i will show you some proof .
002.228
YUSUFALI Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).There are other verses too but for the time being i think you should take care of the above verses.
yeh right, the man made god you made according to your own desires, well, what you are going to say to the real God when He hold you responsible for your belief?, I mean if it comes true, you know the theory of propability still give it a chance logically speaking
but I know what you will say
?I?m guilty my God, is there is a way out?
Ok i,m still better even if i made God according to my own desires unlike you who belives on a God created on the desire of a person who lived 1400 years ago.
if you laughed, I guess you should thank me for making you laugh
if you cried, then you have to take what I said very serious indeed
Ok i will prefer to laugh thanks for that.
excuse me, the probability is 100% correct, if you have a bag with red ball and a white ball in it
what is your bloody chance to randomly pick the red ball?
A child will answer 50%
Not sure mate, did you go to school or you left early as many western kids do?, just kiddin bro
Thats why a child is a child and an adult is an adult.What if some one make a hole in the bag and all of the balls are gone what will you pick out from the bag than a white or a red ball ?
You are excused but the probability is still a probability likeliwood of something happening for which conditions are necessary. If condition changes the probability will seaze to exist.
what did your god do to you?, did he just created you then left you alone?
Well my God left me with a conscience which is a guidence for me to live my life.
Did your god create the earth?, and if so, did he tell you that in a book that he sent you?
My God has left me with undenible signs .I feel love but i cant see it or measure it.Do you need a book to learn what is love.In the same way i feel God but i cannot see that God or touch that God but still i know that there is a God.
When you answer these questions, I will take your god seriously
For me its enough that i believe and i don,t need to force it on any one.
Now regarding the required belief alonge with the good deeds
Well if you think this is injustice then bad luck, what are we going to do if our god is really unjust god and he is just playin with us?, can you do anything about it if it is the case?, please let me know if you can do something about it when you discover that so i will try and do it with ya but I'm sure whatever it is, it will fail. aren't we dealing with a God?
If the God is unjust than what can i do but the problem is we all are left with wealth of love and compassion which increase when you spend it .When you explore this wealth than you have peace of mind and a peacfull soul can go through any ordeal.
which god first?
For me Allah ,Eswar,Khuda etc etc is name of the same God regardless of what they literally means.
that is the manipulation the similar like you keep blabbering it, this is in fact not true at all, it is just a lie, because satan can?t be blamed as the Quran told us, see, Allah told us the truth in advance
Good for you but do you really need a book to learn about that.
I believe Allah described the test we are taking now as a competition indeed, I need to win to save my arse if you don't mind
Good luck than.
not sure if it is the same belief really, are you sucking at my belief?, just kiddin again
bro, you are free to believe in what you want but that does not mean I should not convey the message to you, especially if the message is not from me, it is like thanks but no thanks from your end,
Well at least i said thanks.
Of course man, I want to win according to Allah guidance sent to us, but my winning is simply avoiding hell, I was never really looking forward to the garden neither to sleeping with hoor eins in there, I fear God with every single atom in my body that He created and consequently I can?t imagine myself burning in hell for eternity, I love Him very much though, because "at least" of the followings
- He is not going to throw the people He created in Hell regardless while He can do this easily
- He told me exactly what He is going to do with me if I do whatever
- He promised me with mercy for my sins if I believed in Him and not insist on the sin
- He promised me with some other unbelievable rewards
- And He sent me the guidance in a book to help me through this struggle of a very tough test
So why I should reject Him and loose?
I will be a dumb bum if I do
Salam
Well i was just discussing things to share thoughts but not to stop you from doing good if you think you need fear to do good well than i,m not going to stop you. Atleast you are trying to get the best out of Quran .
Best of luck.
Peace
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oh yeh he was a very good jew, he created the atomic bomb that killed thousands and thousands of innocent humans
he must be in heaven now
And his creation electrcity has save the lives of million and millions and improve the lives of million and millions.This Jew benefited every one regardless of religion ethinicty and creed.
not sure if he invented electricity, but again, if I kill 1000 innocnet people and give money to another 1000 people, would that make me a good man?
a typical atheist statement, nothing new really, sorry
A typical Islamic statement ,nothing new really,sorry.
A typical atheist reply to my typical islamic reply, nothing really new lol
a baseless and unfounded statement, Allah created thel anguages and it is up to Him to choose which one to use to send His messages, and I?m sure He used more than one language for His consistant messages to humanity that were sealed by the Arabic Quran
Unfortunatlly almighty was unable to protect those messages and was only able to protect the Arabic one as Muslim claims yet there is Hafs and Warsh versions to disqualify that claim.
Excuse me the Almighty gave the humans the responsibilty to protect the first scriptures but they failed drastically, therefore Allah took charge in reserving the last message, it is not like He was taken by a surprise, lol , no, no, it was all part of His plan to give us a lesson, that lesson is simply "humans can get flawed with ease", the creation of Adam and Eve story is similar, that one has a great lesson according to His mighty plan as well
For the sex issue, yeh you are right, the corrupt Bible discriminate between men and woman for no logical reason, now show me how the Quran did the same, I can show you how the bible did it and I?m sure you will agree, now I?m not saying that the bible "as is now" is the true inspiration of God, in fact it is not after it got corrupted by sick humans
Why should i care about Bible.Quran and Bible looks same to me alot of illogicall things combine with some good thoughts.
at least to have an idea about the good thoughts, don't tell me you have read them thoroughly though?
About the discrimination b/n man n woman in Quran certainly i will show you some proof .
002.228
YUSUFALI Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.004.034
YUSUFALI Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).There are other verses too but for the time being i think you should take care of the above verses.
excuse me bro, can you do it professionally at least?
what do you want me to respond to exactly?
can you explain the verses above to me and show me where you think the discrimination is?
yeh right, the man made god you made according to your own desires, well, what you are going to say to the real God when He hold you responsible for your belief?, I mean if it comes true, you know the theory of propability still give it a chance logically speaking
but I know what you will say
?I?m guilty my God, is there is a way out?
Ok i,m still better even if i made God according to my own desires unlike you who belives on a God created on the desire of a person who lived 1400 years ago.
again, a basless statement with no concrete proofs to support it, i really hate it when i discuss matters with those who can't back up what they bloody say, I end up calling them big mouth
now can you please prove to me that the God of the Quran is created by man?, i.e. can you prove to me that the Quran is created by man?
thanks
if you laughed, I guess you should thank me for making you laugh
if you cried, then you have to take what I said very serious indeed
Ok i will prefer to laugh thanks for that.
no worries, but I'm sure if you continue to discuss matters with me, i will make you laugh a lot lol
excuse me, the probability is 100% correct, if you have a bag with red ball and a white ball in it
what is your bloody chance to randomly pick the red ball?
A child will answer 50%
Not sure mate, did you go to school or you left early as many western kids do?, just kiddin bro
Thats why a child is a child and an adult is an adult.What if some one make a hole in the bag and all of the balls are gone what will you pick out from the bag than a white or a red ball ?
lol
i have to say that was clever, but you missed the point mister shifty lol
no cheating please
You are excused but the probability is still a probability likeliwood of something happening for which conditions are necessary. If condition changes the probability will seaze to exist.
elboratin please, no, don't worry, i got you, you mean like making a hole in the bag which has changed the conditions, fine bro, let's apply propability again, we have 2 chances based on 2 chances
we start with the propbability of you making a hole or not which has to be 50 50
and we have another probabilty of 50% to pick the red ball
the final propability will be
1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 = 25% to pick the red ball
so how probability failed exactly? it only decreased the odds bro, and my odd is still better than yours for sure
what did your god do to you?, did he just created you then left you alone?
Well my God left me with a conscience which is a guidence for me to live my life.
yeh that is according to your chemical reactions, see, this is called your desires, sometimes these desires are low btw
Did your god create the earth?, and if so, did he tell you that in a book that he sent you?
My God has left me with undenible signs .
come on bro, we can't make the signs for ourselves, otherwise we will end with as many gods as humans on earth
I feel love but i cant see it or measure it.Do you need a book to learn what is love.
great and I'm sure you do and most people do, only the very low humans don't, and sure we don't need a book to know what love is, it is in our instincts and even in the animals instincts, that is something the true God inserted in us when He created us, we only need a book to know that God not to know love, that God will hold the ones who cause mischief on earth responsible, what your god is going to do to those who make mischief on earth and don't love others?
In the same way i feel God but i cannot see that God or touch that God but still i know that there is a God.
that is another instinct inserted in us, like love exactly, now, God does not want us to leave it to our own desires and He is telling us who He is exactly, life goes on the same for me and you, we love each other and we believe in the true God, not gods i make and you make for ourselves
When you answer these questions, I will take your god seriously
For me its enough that i believe and i don,t need to force it on any one.
likewise here bro, i don't force it on others, but at least you should tell others the message of your god, unless you concede that your god is a self made god according to your own desires and hence it can't be a message for others
Now regarding the required belief alonge with the good deeds
Well if you think this is injustice then bad luck, what are we going to do if our god is really unjust god and he is just playin with us?, can you do anything about it if it is the case?, please let me know if you can do something about it when you discover that so i will try and do it with ya but I'm sure whatever it is, it will fail. aren't we dealing with a God?
If the God is unjust than what can i do
exactly, neither me can do anything either nor anyone for that matter, He is a God, not a weak human
but the problem is we all are left with wealth of love and compassion which increase when you spend it .When you explore this wealth than you have peace of mind and a peacfull soul can go through any ordeal.
That is one of the things the true God told us about, see, you are really a loser because your life will be just the same when you believe in the true God, you already know all the true instincts inserted in us, now it is your onus to know the true God, but don't escacpe into the simple illsuon of self made gods as many humans do
which god first?
For me Allah ,Eswar,Khuda etc etc is name of the same God regardless of what they literally means.
see, you already have the instinct, now you need to put things together to bed, this is just an advice, nothing more
that is the manipulation the similar like you keep blabbering it, this is in fact not true at all, it is just a lie, because satan can?t be blamed as the Quran told us, see, Allah told us the truth in advance
Good for you but do you really need a book to learn about that.
for the existance of satan and his progney, yes I needed a book because I can't see them for real, now God confirmed to me where this evil comes from and how I should avoid it, in addition to I need a book to know the true God, but I agree that the book must be proven first that it can't be by a man, and if proven then it has to be by what it claims about itsself
it is like me an you in a pub and someone found 100 bucks, then shouted who lost money?, only one person from the pub came forward and said it is my money, therefore it has to be his, if more than one claimed to own the money then we have a problem, so please prove to me who else claimed to have authorised the content of the Quran?
I believe Allah described the test we are taking now as a competition indeed, I need to win to save my arse if you don't mind
Good luck than.
Likwise, we are all equal in this very tough test incured on all of us
not sure if it is the same belief really, are you sucking at my belief?, just kiddin again
bro, you are free to believe in what you want but that does not mean I should not convey the message to you, especially if the message is not from me, it is like thanks but no thanks from your end,
Well at least i said thanks.
my pleasure
Of course man, I want to win according to Allah guidance sent to us, but my winning is simply avoiding hell, I was never really looking forward to the garden neither to sleeping with hoor eins in there, I fear God with every single atom in my body that He created and consequently I can?t imagine myself burning in hell for eternity, I love Him very much though, because "at least" of the followings
- He is not going to throw the people He created in Hell regardless while He can do this easily
- He told me exactly what He is going to do with me if I do whatever
- He promised me with mercy for my sins if I believed in Him and not insist on the sin
- He promised me with some other unbelievable rewards
- And He sent me the guidance in a book to help me through this struggle of a very tough test
So why I should reject Him and loose?
I will be a dumb bum if I do
Salam
Well i was just discussing things to share thoughts but not to stop you from doing good if you think you need fear to do good well than i,m not going to stop you. Atleast you are trying to get the best out of Quran .
Best of luck.
Peace
thanks bro and I was doing the exact same, discussing things and share thoughts, at least with you i found it interesting than with others
Salam be with you
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Dear bro "AB? and "Naxus?
I have seen your argument bro ?AB? and your missing the point all the time. You yourself said that the Quran is proven by its miraculous Arabic language, so why didn?t you just make that point to ?Naxus? and explain your position? As ive said before on the forum, once a book is proven to be true, we can rely on what it tells us even if we do not understand it as yet. An example would be 2130 in the Quran. People like ?Naxus? in the past would have said ?WHAT? Heavens and he earth were one unit before? HA HA HA, what irrationality?? and yet here we have the scientific evidenc today that it happened. At least this should have awakened ?Naxus? to think that this Quran has a HIGH PROBABILITY of being correct but the ignorance continues. Moreover GOD has released another proof, the mathematical pattern based on no. 19, in 1974, to boost the faith of the believers and to prove to the disbelievers that this Quran is really the word of GOD. By rigorously applying the scitnfic method bros Edip Yuksel, Bahman, Richard Voss (Phd), myself and others have come to the conclusion that this pattern is way too much to be a coincidence or to have been put their by humans. Thus with proof we now believe the Quran is true and this gives us the benefit to perhaps even derive things from it which are yet unknown but may soon prove themselves to be true in the future. If we would work on the information from Quran beforehand instead of ignoring it we may just GW make a breakthrough discovery sometime in the future. But if we keep trying to interpret the Quran allegorically or don?t trust it at all in certain verses we may NEVER PROSPER and those big scientists would overrun us while we would be totally dependant on them. GOD Bless! -
Dear bro "AB? and "Naxus?
Peace bro
I have seen your argument bro ?AB? and your missing the point all the time.
sorry bro, i'm not sure which point i was missing?
You yourself said that the Quran is proven by its miraculous Arabic language, so why didn?t you just make that point to ?Naxus? and explain your position?
ok that is what i was missing then lol
mate, i was not debating this issue from the first place, i was just having a friendly discussion with him, i hardly debate the existance of Allah or the Quran is the word of Allah any more unless there is a challenge but i could ont see any, just the old used by date ranting and i'm sick of it, i made my point exlai ing my position and that was all
regarding discussing the superiority of the Arabic langugae in the Quran, I can only do this with at least a native arabic speaker, to do with anyone else it will be a waste of both times, but this is not somethin i'm interested in anyway bro
As ive said before on the forum, once a book is proven to be true, we can rely on what it tells us even if we do not understand it as yet. An example would be 2130 in the Quran. People like ?Naxus? in the past would have said ?WHAT? Heavens and he earth were one unit before? HA HA HA, what irrationality?? and yet here we have the scientific evidenc today that it happened. At least this should have awakened ?Naxus? to think that this Quran has a HIGH PROBABILITY of being correct but the ignorance continues. Moreover GOD has released another proof, the mathematical pattern based on no. 19, in 1974, to boost the faith of the believers and to prove to the disbelievers that this Quran is really the word of GOD.
here we go bro, this is something i would like to discuss and debate if required, how about you convince me slowly that 7431 really means a scientific miracle based on the 19 number and not a fitnah to those who follow it?
if you agree, i will be glad to make rules and judges in advance with you to control the discussion if you prefer,
By rigorously applying the scitnfic method bros Edip Yuksel, Bahman, Richard Voss (Phd), myself and others have come to the conclusion that this pattern is way too much to be a coincidence or to have been put their by humans.
come on bro, i can show a pattern of number 1 in the quran, and i can also show a pattern of number 2, but again why not this was planned by Allah to be a fitnah to the ones who believe in code 19?, i guess we have only sura 74 to tell us as such or the contrary, and i hope you can answer all my questions regarding 7431 and any related verses
Thus with proof we now believe the Quran is true and this gives us the benefit to perhaps even derive things from it which are yet unknown but may soon prove themselves to be true in the future. If we would work on the information from Quran beforehand instead of ignoring it we may just GW make a breakthrough discovery sometime in the future. But if we keep trying to interpret the Quran allegorically or don?t trust it at all in certain verses we may NEVER PROSPER and those big scientists would overrun us while we would be totally dependant on them. GOD Bless!
erxcuse me bro, the Quran is a reminder not a book we spend pur times counting letters, words and whatever
i'm not sure if rashad khalifa spent really time studying the wisdom in it rather to bloody count, this is rediculous man
let's work on 7431 please and convince me if you can, while I admit that it is not your onus but mine, therefore i should put it in other words, help me if you can but by only using logic
Salam bro
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Peace "AB",
erxcuse me bro, the Quran is a reminder not a book we spend pur times counting letters, words and whatever
JK- Did i ever make such a statement. Thats only to get the proof that it is from GOD. Once we have that we can rely on everything it says and thats exactly what weve done.
i'm not sure if rashad khalifa spent really time studying the wisdom in it rather to bloody count, this is rediculous man
JK- If your not sure then just goto www.submissiontv.com and view the clips "The Great Debate Parts A&B" and youll see that RK talks about 90% about the Quran and what it says and only about 10% of code-19 in the last session and that even on demand. So please, no prejudice.
let's work on 7431 please and convince me if you can, while I admit that it is not your onus but mine, therefore i should put it in other words, help me if you can but by only using logic
Salam bro
JK- 7431 can be understood in TWO ways but in my view and many others it doesnt make sense that "the fitnah/trial of the number 19 made the believers increase in faith or convinced the Jews and Christians" while "the number 19 DID INDEED increase the believers' faith, like in my case, and bro Edip knows some Christians and Jews who were convinced based on this nos pattern and so was bro Bahman, a former atheist". So using the facts and logic, the 2nd understanding makes more sense. Btw your claiming that you can make a pattern based on nos 17, 13, etc shows that youve not understood the complete picture of the interlocks. Please read
"Intelligent People's guide to code-19" at www.19.org
GOD Bless! -
Peace "AB",
JK- If your not sure then just goto www.submissiontv.com and view the clips "The Great Debate Parts A&B" and youll see that RK talks about 90% about the Quran and what it says and only about 10% of code-19 in the last session and that even on demand. So please, no prejudice.
Peace bro
I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here
JK- 7431 can be understood in TWO ways but in my view and many others it doesnt make sense that "the fitnah/trial of the number 19 made the believers increase in faith or convinced the Jews and Christians" while "the number 19 DID INDEED increase the believers' faith, like in my case, and bro Edip knows some Christians and Jews who were convinced based on this nos pattern and so was bro Bahman, a former atheist". So using the facts and logic, the 2nd understanding makes more sense. Btw your claiming that you can make a pattern based on nos 17, 13, etc shows that youve not understood the complete picture of the interlocks. Please read
"Intelligent People's guide to code-19" at www.19.org
GOD Bless!Here is the verse just to follow you
And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
(31)
Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow
-
specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here
-
Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed
-
Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"
-
same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates
-
The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle
-
The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik
-
, ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released
and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,
as you can see I stayed as literal as possible
Peace
-
-
Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here
JK- Did you see the Great Debate? If you did then you should know thats RK focused more on the message himself.
Here is the verse just to follow you
And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,-(you put a semicolon to separate at this point but as i told you it can be read both ways and this one is nonsensible) in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
(31)
Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow
JK- Why even mention this? We dont believe in hadith interpreting Quran, right?
- specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here
JK- NO no no no noooo. This is the understanding which doesnt make sense at all since exactly the opposite happened. So did GOD lie according to you? It didnt cause a fitnah but strengthened the belief of the believers.
- Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed
JK- Well bro Bahman Goharzad(www.y19.net) fits perfectly into the above underlined category and he was convinced BECAUSE OF 19 AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE FITNAH OF 19. Mreover it strengthened my faith and i already believed before in the Quran.
- Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"
JK- First you say correctly that specifying the number itself can be, infact is, a conformation to those people and then you mix in the wrong understanding by conclcuing that their assurance is by seeing the prophecy of the fitnah come to pass. But let me tell you NONE of the nonbelievers were convinced by this so called NON EXISTENT FITNAH. No one became a believer as yet by witnessing this so called fitnah but many became believers like Bahman by seeing the pattern based on 19 itself. That should tell you something.
- same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates
JK- Again this is a silly claim since my very own faith increased NOT by noticing the fitnah but because of the pattern of 19 in the Quran.
- The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle
JK- In my view and in that of many others the people who are sick at heart include those who isnsist that code-19 is a fitnah inspite of the evidence at hand.
- The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik
JK- Youve got the wrong understanding of that part too. "What does GOD mean by this mathal" can very be understood as a mockery as if to say "So what, this is not any code". RK never made up a new cnoncept. This was integrated into the Quran by GOD Himself. RK only revealed it. Also we never ask what does GOD mean anyways since we know it. YOU are the ones who wondered at it because you probably cannot understand it or something i dont know. Moreover there is NO MANIPULATION at all. This once again shows your ignorance of the pattern. Bro Bahman gave a good example of different gears in a system where a few got disconnected so they are adjusted ?ntil the right plac is found and then voila the system works again. Code-19 even allowed predictions to be made. One such included the word "bastatan" being spelled with sin instead of sad. Bro Edip predicted that based on the code and voila one of the oldest available documents showed that it was indeed spelled with "sin". This is exactly the scientific method my friend and it made predictions, stood test after test without being falsified.
- , ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released
JK- What history record? Are you mixing in hadith again. I understand this part to mean that yes only GOD knows the number of His forces and so He is the one who revealed the 19 ones in this verse, the number of which is seen to be used as a marvellous pattern also.
and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,
as you can see I stayed as literal as possible
Peace
JK- Ever heard about the perpetuality of the meanings of Quranic verses before? I guess not. The meanings of Quranic verses are NOT static, therefore there may have been other understandings of this before. But it is also possible that certain verses are NOT UNDERSTOOD by people in the past like 2130 for example. Same could have been with sura 74 or 7430-35. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
I watched many of his videos man, but sorry could not buy the 19 thingy though, but i bought some of the things he said so no prejudice here
JK- Did you see the Great Debate? If you did then you should know thats RK focused more on the message himself.
Peace bro
I?m not sure as I watched a few over a year ago, and I wasn?t really impressed my friend, but I will have another look and see if I saw it or not
Here is the verse just to follow you
And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,-(you put a semicolon to separate at this point but as i told you it can be read both ways and this one is nonsensible) in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth Allah intend by this?" Thus doth Allah leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind.
(31)
Without referring to the history records about what the prophet and others said regarding this verse, I see as follow
JK- Why even mention this? We dont believe in hadith interpreting Quran, right?
sorry bro if you mean by we ?you and myself? then this is not entirely accurate, as I don?t reject the hadith neither I put it in the same level as the Quran, nor I accept all the hadith, at the end of the day it is for me a mere history record as other zillions of history records that are not religiously based
- specifying the number of the hell angels can be a fitnah to the Kuffar, i.e. it can be about the 19 code advocates themselves , no offence here
JK- NO no no no noooo. This is the understanding which doesnt make sense at all since exactly the opposite happened. So did GOD lie according to you? It didnt cause a fitnah but strengthened the belief of the believers.
excuse me bro. please don?t ask me this silly questions about Allah, now to answer your silly question, I guess you mean that I think that they are not 19 but something else, NO no no no noooo, I believe 100% that they are 19, but the fitnah was evident on the code 19 advocates because they proved verse 7431, there is no way on earth that the true believers are required by Allah to believe in that code 19 as part of the belief, it sounds very laughable indeed
- Alazeen Autu Al Kitab, can be any one who received a book from Allah, i.e. Christians, Jews and Muslims, possibly others, the people who were given a book does not really mean that they are believers rather I see the ones who yet to make up their minds, Alazeen Amanu can be referring to anyone from Alazeen Autu Al Kitab but made up their minds and believed
NO no no no noooo JK- Well bro Bahman Goharzad(www.y19.net) fits perfectly into the above underlined category and he was convinced BECAUSE OF 19 AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE FITNAH OF 19. Mreover it strengthened my faith and i already believed before in the Quran.
I don?t know brother Bahman Goharzad, and before i can say something i have to know who he is first
For you, when you say it strengthened your faith, I believe you just making this up and thinking it strengthened your faith to Allah, but for me it strengthened your faith in code 19 itself which something I see not required to believe in according to many verses in the Quran, as well it made you believe that the Quran was injected with two human verses, see it didn?t strengthen your faith in the Quran, it actually made you doubt it then changing it.
For me it also strengthened my faith as I saw the fitnah mentioned in 7431 clearly came to pass in 1974
- Specifying the number of the hell angels can be a confirmation to Alazeen Autu Al Kitab (Yet to make up their minds) so they can then believe and become Alazeen Amanu the donlt donbt, the assurance is seeing the prophecy of the fitnah came to pass when the Kuffar suggested that this is a miracle and tried to manipulate Allah words by removing verses from the Quran to suit their fitnah "this is enough to earn them the title Kuffar"
JK- First you say correctly that specifying the number itself can be, infact is, a conformation to those people and then you mix in the wrong understanding by conclcuing that their assurance is by seeing the prophecy of the fitnah come to pass.
yes bro this is how I see it fitting the whole context of the Quran and the message within it.
But let me tell you NONE of the nonbelievers were convinced by this so called NON EXISTENT FITNAH. No one became a believer as yet by witnessing this so called fitnah but many became believers like Bahman by seeing the pattern based on 19 itself. That should tell you something.
how do you know that bro?, I mean that NONE of non believers were convinced by this so called FITNAH?
Firstly, 7431 NEVER said that any non believer will be a believer after seeing the fitnah, it only said that it will be a confirmation, it never said confirmation to what really.
Now for mister Bahman, I guess to believe in the Allah because of code 19 is very shaky indeed and somehow does not sound like faith based on the wisdom in the Quran rather some addition and multiplications according to many non consistent and random criteria, code 19 is a joke bro, I looked at it very carefully man and printed a whole heap of pages and read it more than three times until I concluded that it is a load of rubbish, sorry no offence to anyone.
If you want to convince me, then you have to convince me why the random criteria was selected randomly?
- same with Alzeen Amanu, the doubt will not come to them after seeing the fitnah of number 19 came to pass through the 19 code advocates
JK- Again this is a silly claim since my very own faith increased NOT by noticing the fitnah but because of the pattern of 19 in the Quran.
bro, if there is 1000 code 19 followers who were Muslims then their faith increased after 1974, then I?m sure there will be 19 as much from the rest of the Muslims who had their faith increased after seeing the fitnah mentioned 1400 years ago came to pass on 1974, therefore you can?t use your own self as an example neither to judge anyone?s faith that increased or deceased because simply no one can know that but Allah
- The people who are sick in the heart will reject both sides and will insist that it is not a fitnah nor a miracle
JK- In my view and in that of many others the people who are sick at heart include those who isnsist that code-19 is a fitnah inspite of the evidence at hand.
firstly 7431 called it fitnah not me as a matter of fact, now show me where it says that it is a miracle (sign)
secondly, please discuss the evidence and tell me why R K kept changing the criteria of adding and multiplying randomly?
I tell you why he did it randomly, simply to work out a result of multiples of 19 , this is a joke bro, I?m really surprised that you bought it
Now please take me to the basics and explain to me my concern regarding the criteria, I can show you many examples if you would like to refute it.
- The Kuffar wondered already about that Mathal by Allah and asked themselves what that mathal means? then made up a whole new concept based on the number 19, and in the process they had to manipulate Allah words which is enough to classify them as Kuffar, a kafir is one who belives in Allah but disobey and lie about Him, exactly like Satan, Satan was a kafir not a Mushrik
JK- Youve got the wrong understanding of that part too. "What does GOD mean by this mathal" can very be understood as a mockery as if to say "So what, this is not any code".
well I see it differently, the word mathal does not have to be a metaphor all the times, it can mean that an example of a reminder, the reminder is Hell has 19 angels to guard it and to force the laws inside it, you can see an example of Mathal that mean an example of a reminder in 473
RK never made up a new cnoncept. This was integrated into the Quran by GOD Himself.
LOL mate, this is very inaccurate, I?m sure he created a whole new concept regarding code 19, now I believe if Allah will do such thing called code 19 in His Quran then He will keep the criteria fixed on all multiplications and addition, not change it every time to make up a result of 19(s)
RK only revealed it.
Yeh Satan also inspires and makes it look good like a revelation, I believe he is clever in pinpointing who are the shaky in the heart and can follow him with ease
Also we never ask what does GOD mean anyways since we know it.
sorry know what exactly?, that the criteria chosen was so dodgy and funny almost all additions and multiplications?, I don?t know really, as what I said is what I can see clearly as a math professional
YOU are the ones who wondered at it because you probably cannot understand it or something i dont know.
not really, let me take you back before 1974
this is when R K was reading the Quran then he reached verses 7430 and 7431. so he asked himself, what Allah means by saying the Hell has 19 guards?, he kept asking the same question and thinking hard then suggested that it might be a code that is hidden in the Quran which is based on number 19 then he spent years adding and multiplying RANDOMLY to prove it, I never said to myself what Allah meant by this? Nor I spent years counting, adding and multiplying numbers from the Quran, I started to look at it after R K said what he said the I tried to qualify it then reached my verdict and I can prove it to you by just looking at the random criteria
Moreover there is NO MANIPULATION at all.
I?m sure there is a lot in the criteria specified by R K
This once again shows your ignorance of the pattern.
ok, but I may ask what pattern exactly?
Bro Bahman gave a good example of different gears in a system where a few got disconnected so they are adjusted ?ntil the right plac is found and then voila the system works again.
yeh, Muslims should take brother Bahman as an example instead of the prophet, what crap is this bro?
Code-19 even allowed predictions to be made.
yeh like the Judgment day prediction, LOL, this is enough to prove that R K was inspired by Satan, sorry
I also guess with random criteria you can bloody predict anything
One such included the word "bastatan" being spelled with sin instead of sad. Bro Edip predicted that based on the code and voila one of the oldest available documents showed that it was indeed spelled with "sin". This is exactly the scientific method my friend and it made predictions, stood test after test without being falsified.
let?s put it again to the test but this time we will only discuss the criteria
- , ? none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He? this bit in the verse indicates that the dispute was how many they are compared to another group, not really why they are 19, which confirms the history records regarding what happened back then when this verse was released
JK- What history record? Are you mixing in hadith again.
is it a crime or something?
As I said zillions of times man, the history records can?t be ignored and must stay as mere history records
I understand this part to mean that yes only GOD knows the number of His forces and so He is the one who revealed the 19 ones in this verse, the number of which is seen to be used as a marvellous pattern also.
marvellous pattern according to random criteria?, this is a joke man, please bro, you have to tell me about the criteria first and why it was randomly made up?
and finally, , ?this is no other than a warning to mankind?, this bit also confirms that it is not about the miracle rather about the hell fire, because code 19 can?t be a reminder to all humanity because prior to 1974 no one knows about it, while prior to 1974 most humans who received a book knew about hell and was a warning to them,
as you can see I stayed as literal as possible
Peace
JK- Ever heard about the perpetuality of the meanings of Quranic verses before? I guess not. The meanings of Quranic verses are NOT static, therefore there may have been other understandings of this before. But it is also possible that certain verses are NOT UNDERSTOOD by people in the past like 2130 for example. Same could have been with sura 74 or 7430-35. GOD Bless!
if Allah wanted a code 19 to be a miracle in the Quran, He is not going to tell us that the number of the Hell angels are 19 and we should work out this non sense, this is very disrespectful to Allah to believe that He inserted such non sense and want us to follow R K otherwise He will throw us in Hell, Allah signs in the Quran are clear and obvious. I?m not talking scientific signs, only the hard core facts like the sun, the moon and many others
Yes I agree that some verses may not be understood properly, but that is based on individual words not a whole new concept from another planet with no merit at all, a child that is good in math must ask why R K kept changing the criteria?
How about we tackle the J day prediction and see what criteria he used, then we move on to the age 40 dilemma?
Peace man
Edited
Fixed many typos
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there would be many problems in believing that lot was offering his daugthers and 1 of them would be numbers! were the number of daughters same as the number of men out there? what about the rest of men if the group outnumbered the daughters? it clearly says 'qawmahu'!
which father would offer his daugthers to men who are craving for men...just so that those men do not sin?
like already pointed out, would it be fair unto those daughters to have to accede to such a preposterous proposal by their father? does god not give women the right to choose whom they want to marry? or were lot's daugther inanimate objects which a thoughtless father would hand over to a bunch of crazed adulterers? what would be the future of such a marriage? would that be anything having to do with islam? all the more coming from a prophet?