Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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What's a shame? That you don't understand premises in logic when dealing with contradictions in a book that claims to have none? Or that the subject matter is drifting from the subject as is usual?
No not at all. but you start out with setting a debate frame that says i cant use normal human logic. Then please tell me, what kind of a logic, does Quran require?
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I was talking to Enquirer ABOUT Enquirer.
sorry i misunderstood then.
As for the Quran being my idol, that's your opinion which shows you do not adhere to the Quranic concept of 'ilah' , 'rabb' ,'deen' and 'ibada'. No problem though, that's your business, only that I don't share your approach.
ok, so how about concepts such as fred, k?rlighed, forst?else, indlevelse ?
Are you argueing by using half arabic, that it can only be understood in arabic. Now think hard, because if you say yes, you have proven my point.
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Peace savage carrot. Why do you feel the need to tell people what they can and cannot address,it might not be relevent to you,but to others it may be.
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Peace mquran. Are you my spokesman? You struggle to interpret my words,never mind a 1400 year old document...
Enquirer is asserting that SOME people claim the quran permits no other path or true revelation.
By the way how do you interpret 385 and 319 in the light of your obvious pluralisitic,tolerant,open-minded opinionsWow, what a total lack of integrity. I've already explained to you your 'contradiction' claim and you can't even deal with it. Quoting 3/85 and 3/19 shows your narrow interpretation of 'al-islaam' and 'aslama' not to mention your inability to follow what's being discussed in this forum. It's obvious that your level of research is very shallow and that I am very sorry to say.
Listen, thanks for your participation but I really cannot waste my time with people like yourself.
If you wish to forward me a full list of contradictions, kindly send it to [email protected] and I will publish them along with my responses when I have the time. Till then, i'm sure you can find another victim whose time you can unduly waste with your rants. Peace.
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Explain to me your definition of 'human' logic. How does the fact that the quran being in arabic negate the fact that it is for mankind? Does mankind have a universal language? Any language is as good as the other to give concepts that are universal.
Why didnt God chose mandarin? that would cover way more people at one time? Why does all the messages that stay come out of the same limited area? Is europeans not godly enough to receave messengers and messenges?
Brilliant 'human' logic. Are you really asking the question that all the messages that stay come out from the same limited area and then at the same time why didn't the quran come down in mandarin? Didn't the messages stay regardless of the language? Are people not aware of these messages? Can the messages not be translated? Or should a language magically stay the same throughout time and this language should gradually take over the world and thus God will have more bang for His buck lol If only God would send His angels wink
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ok, so how about concepts such as fred, k?rlighed, forst?else, indlevelse ?
I don't know them and so obviously do not evaluate my being by them.
Are you argueing by using half arabic, that it can only be understood in arabic. Now think hard, because if you say yes, you have proven my point
I am saying, the concept of 'idol' as you apply it doesn't work in my world-view which I try to make Quranic. I root my semantics in Quranic text and to me, making the Quran my idol would be to kiss it and put it on top-shelves. What I do is to try to follow it and this, ACCORDING TO QURANIC WORLD-VIEW, is the worship of Allah. So by this, i disagree with your judgement. Peace.
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Quoting 3/85 and 3/19 shows your narrow interpretation of 'al-islaam' and 'aslama'
MQ, this would be funny if it wasnt so sad. So YOUR interpretation is the one that isnt narrow?
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ok, so how about concepts such as fred, k?rlighed, forst?else, indlevelse ?
I don't know them and so obviously do not evaluate my being by them.
Are you argueing by using half arabic, that it can only be understood in arabic. Now think hard, because if you say yes, you have proven my point
I am saying, the concept of 'idol' as you apply it doesn't work in my world-view which I try to make Quranic. I root my semantics in Quranic text and to me, making the Quran my idol would be to kiss it and put it on top-shelves. What I do is to try to follow it and this, ACCORDING TO QURANIC WORLD-VIEW, is the worship of Allah. So by this, i disagree with your judgement. Peace.
peace
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Explain to me your definition of 'human' logic.
nice try. its not MY definition. The definition is a=a at all times, based on the data presented. So if a=a, then a=a aswell. Wich is why my arguemtn of "from God" is p?erfectly valid within the framwork of human logic as defined by our history.
How does the fact that the quran being in arabic negate the fact that it is for mankind? Does mankind have a universal language? Any language is as good as the other to give concepts that are universal.
Thats the thing. It is hard to swap languages at an older age, and become so good at them that you understand details. I can read here that a lot of the understanding of the Quran is in fact in the details. So where does that leave me? in the hands of other peopels interpretations. If God truely send a message for all to read, dont you think all would have it in their own language, or would that be too hard for God?
Brilliant 'human' logic. Are you really asking the question that all the messages that stay come out from the same limited area and then at the same time why didn't the quran come down in mandarin?
nice try 2, so what is the flaw here in your oppinion? Is it a fact that it comes out of the same little areas? bnecause it is a fact that the first line containing mandarine had nothing to so with the text after the period?.
Didn't the messages stay regardless of the language?
oh yes, the catholic church are a blazing example of this.
Are people not aware of these messages?
they are? where?
Can the messages not be translated?
apparently not. tell me good sis, what is salat?
Or should a language magically stay the same throughout time and this language should gradually take over the world and thus God will have more bang for His buck lol If only God would send His angels wink
No i dont want angels, i want something that makes sense, altso when im not forcing sense into it. its not something unreasonable to demand, is it?
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Peace mquran. You can tell someones integrity through a computer screen? WOW. I thought only allah knows whats in the hearts... D
I suggest you evaluate yourself critically,and control your emotions...im sure the quran would say something similar too...or are only your interpretations valid?... D Ps;an idol doesnt just have to be a rock my friend,it can be an unverified,dogmatic mindset as well. -
Salaams all , Magi,
Magi said "It is states that it is a Quran in arabic for all mankind"
Hey magi where does it state this -- As i can't find this anywhere?
Thanks - anybody.
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peace savage carrot. What magi is saying is correct,why would god send a universal message in one language when we all speak different languages...
The universal language is conscience my people,we all possess a natural inclination to try to do right...Even the quran suggests this. Why should we be at the mercy of dogmatic people who have little clue about gods messages except their own linguistic tools and intellectual dogmas and desires? ps;what is an angel? And what is salat in this clear book? -
Salaams all , Magi,
Magi said "It is states that it is a Quran in arabic for all mankind"
Hey magi where does it state this -- As i can't find this anywhere?
Thanks - anybody.
It doesnt state so in the same verse, but according to the book we shouldnt isolate verses. Both statements are to be found within the pages, and you know it!
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peace all. 3;85 and 319 seem to be in opposition with 262 and 569. Any takers to resolve this?
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nice try. its not MY definition. The definition is a=a at all times, based on the data presented. So if a=a, then a=a aswell. Wich is why my arguemtn of "from God" is p?erfectly valid within the framwork of human logic as defined by our history.
Human logic as defined by history? You can't be serious? Tell me good sir before harping on about people posting verses like shit from a newborn, is this 'history' accurate? Is this history something that can be unequivicably proven like 2+2=4?
Thats the thing. It is hard to swap languages at an older age, and become so good at them that you understand details. I can read here that a lot of the understanding of the Quran is in fact in the details. So where does that leave me? in the hands of other peopels interpretations. If God truely send a message for all to read, dont you think all would have it in their own language, or would that be too hard for God?
I don't know why everyone thinks 'this is what God should do' as opposed to what is. Is God not in control? You don't need to be in the hands of other people. Read and educate yourself. We all can. This is not just about a book. This is about anything you do. You put so much energy into tracing histories, why not put that energy into understanding the message and after understanding it to put it into action? We don't need to be bound to studying it endlessly. I think it's more about what motivates and interests people.
nice try 2, so what is the flaw here in your oppinion? Is it a fact that it comes out of the same little areas? bnecause it is a fact that the first line containing mandarine had nothing to so with the text after the period?.
You put them both together in the same para, obviously if you had thought them out...why post such inane questions? The flaw is outlined in my post which you respond to next.
oh yes, the catholic church are a blazing example of this.
Most of us believe that whatever came down before the quran got corrupted in practice and/or textually. The practices after the quran came down got corrupted, but some of us do not believe the quran is corrupted. Thus the thread about contradictions in the quran.
they are? where?
Oh look! Here! roll
apparently not. tell me good sis, what is salat?
Link/Bond/Connection, try PRL.
No i dont want angels, i want something that makes sense, altso when im not forcing sense into it. its not something unreasonable to demand, is it?
We see what we want to see. If something makes sense for one, there are ten others it won't make sense to.
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Next thing we hear will be, God is an idol (wasn't there some poster who said something along those lines?)...no, your mind is an idol, hell whatever you know is an idol.
Thank you for that one. That's exactly what I wanted to say when the question of quran being an idol came up. )OMG! Is the God your idol?... are His words? scared
roll
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Salaams all, Magi ,Enquirer,
Which verses Magi?
and Enquirer said "peace all. 3;85 and 319 seem to be in opposition with 262 and 569. Any takers to resolve this?"
Enquirer Show how they could be in oposition ,please - Thanks?
God Bless.
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Human logic as defined by history? You can't be serious? Tell me good sir before harping on about people posting verses like s*** from a newborn, is this 'history' accurate? Is this history something that can be unequivicably proven like 2+2=4?
no its not accurate, but its all that we have that isnt blind faith!
edit however, this is avoiding the point at hand. sorry, you got me there and diverted the conversation. here is the basic of logic
L03.7 Logical Equivalence
If we have two statements that entail each other then they are logically equivalent. For example, "everyone is happy" is equivalent to "nobody is not happy", and "the glass is half full" is equivalent to "the glass is half empty".
If two statements are logically equivalent, then they must always have the same truth value.
I don't know why everyone thinks 'this is what God should do' as opposed to what is. Is God not in control? You don't need to be in the hands of other people. Read and educate yourself. We all can. This is not just about a book. This is about anything you do. You put so much energy into tracing histories, why not put that energy into understanding the message and after understanding it to put it into action? We don't need to be bound to studying it endlessly. I think it's more about what motivates and interests people.
fair play. So what IS salat and angels. I have studied the older systems, and through them i understand now, that this is no different. In fact, it is nearly the same. To me this says that these storys stay because they are good to learn certain values from, that i belive to have in my life.
Most of us believe that whatever came down before the quran got corrupted in practice and/or textually.
thats good, but can you prove it? Have you got a copy of injeel?
The practices after the quran came down got corrupted, but some of us do not believe the quran is corrupted. Thus the thread about contradictions in the quran.
and there are numerous, but they are to be found in the "evidence" the book suggests. We are to belive in all the books send down, as you say. How can i confirm that they changed? I cant even confirm this with the Quran itself. God chose not to preserve the first copy for some odd reason, that would have eleminated all doubt.
Oh look! Here!
the sunnis state that you arent, so does the jews and xtians. why are they not right? because of your blind faith in a book!
Link/Bond/Connection, try PRL.
I know what it translates into, but what does that mean for me? I am to uphold the contact, how does that work?
We see what we want to see. If something makes sense for one, there are ten others it won't make sense to.
and this is why the Quran fails!
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Salaams all, Magi ,Enquirer,
Which verses Magi?
and Enquirer said "peace all. 3;85 and 319 seem to be in opposition with 262 and 569. Any takers to resolve this?"
Enquirer Show how they could be in oposition ,please - Thanks?
God Bless.
ok since you insist, here are the arab verses. to find the others will take a little longer.
Progressive Muslims (en)
Chapter 12
122 We have sent it down an Arabic compilation, perhaps you will comprehend.Chapter 13
1337 And as such, We have sent it down a law in Arabic. And if you follow their desires after what has come to you of the knowledge, then you will not have any ally or defender against God.Chapter 16
16103 And We are aware that they Say "A human is teaching him." The language of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear Arabic language.Chapter 20
20113 And it was such that We sent it down as an Arabic compilation, and We cited in it many warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause for them a remembrance.Chapter 26
26195 In a clear Arabic tongue.Chapter 39
3928 A compilation in Arabic, without any crookedness, that they may be righteous.Chapter 41
413 A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a compilation in Arabic for a people who know.
4144 And had We made it a non-Arabic compilation, they would have said "If only its verses were made clear!" Non-Arabic and Arabic, Say "For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it. These will be called from a place far away."Chapter 42
427 And thus We have inspired to you an Arabic compilation, so that you may warn the capital town and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering that is inevitable. A group will be in Paradise, and a group in Hell.Chapter 43
433 We have made it into an Arabic compilation, perhaps you may understand.Chapter 46
4612 And before this was the Scripture of Moses, as a role model and a mercy. And this is an authenticating Scripture, in an Arabic tongue, so that you may warn those who have transgressed, and to give good news to the righteous. -
double post