Food on which no one's name is pronounced?
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Salams
To simply the question lets say that all food could be devided into three groups
Group 1 Food on which Allah's name has been pronounced.
Group 2 Food on which someone other than Allah's name has been pronounced.
Group 3 Food on which no one's name is pronounced.Verse 6145 is telling us not to eat Group 2.
Verses 6118-119 are telling us to eat Group 1.What about Group 3?
Why did Quran not say anything about Group 3. Can we infer from 6118-119 that Group 3 is unlawful?
Most of the beef and mutton available in Canadian non-halal stores are falling in Group 3.
Most web articles on halal food ignores 6118-119.
To me Group 3 is neither unlawful nor recommended by Quran. My confusion is that why did Quran not talked about Group 3?
006145 YUSUFALI Say "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
006118 YUSUFALI So eat of (meats) on which Allah's name hath been pronounced, if ye have faith in His signs.
006119 YUSUFALI Why should ye not eat of (meats) on which Allah's name hath been pronounced, when He hath explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you - except under compulsion of necessity? But many do mislead (men) by their appetites unchecked by knowledge. Thy Lord knoweth best those who transgress.
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Peace,
I am of the opinion that lawful food is that which God's name is mentioned either a) when it is killed, or b) when it is being prepared/eaten.
Therefore, I would say that in your list # 1 & 3 can be one in the same.
What is a no-no is to eat that which has been slaughtered purposely for any other than God.
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Peace,
I am of the opinion that lawful food is that which God's name is mentioned either a) when it is killed, or b) when it is being prepared/eaten.
Therefore, I would say that in your list # 1 & 3 can be one in the same.
What is a no-no is to eat that which has been slaughtered purposely for any other than God.
Peace all.
I disagree with brother Layth's last statement. I don't think it matters who said what while the animal was being slaughtered. I say this for three reasons
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Living in the United States, for example, how am I to know what the slaughterer's beliefs are? This goes against the Qur'anic ayat speaking about God not wanting to make our religion difficult for us. (56)
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Furthermore, it does not even make sense. Why would some person who I have no relation to who slaughtered the meat and sold it to a supermarket where I bought it from matter to me and my beliefs? How are the two even related? Am I to be held responsible for someone else's beliefs? (533
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Finally, God does not run out of words. He specifically didn't mention pronouncing his name while slaughtering. Why is that? Surely, if that's what He meant, He would have said so. Indeed, God took the opposite track. He repeatedly mentions how it's wrong to invent dietary prohibitions (1059)
It makes most sense that we must pronounce God's name on the food that we are about to eat to remember God.
As far as the main question in the thread referring to Group 3, OracleMir, the Qur'an has an answer
6121 Khalifa "Do not eat from that upon which the name of GOD has not been mentioned, for it is an abomination. The devils inspire their allies to argue with you; if you obey them, you will be idol worshipers."
6121 Shakir "And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists."
6121 Sher Ali "And eat not of that on which the name of ALLAH has not been pronounced, for surely that is abomination. And certainly the evil ones inspire their friends with such thoughts that they may dispute with you. And if you obey them, you will indeed be of those who set up gods with ALLAH."
So group 3, or the food on which nothing has been mentioned, is also an abomination. I hope that makes sense. Peace.
Also, I found this article on the main page. It might be of some help http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/dietary.htm
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Peace,
I am of the opinion that lawful food is that which God's name is mentioned either a) when it is killed, or b) when it is being prepared/eaten.
Therefore, I would say that in your list # 1 & 3 can be one in the same.
What is a no-no is to eat that which has been slaughtered purposely for any other than God.
Salams Layth.
There are three distinct instructions found in Quran
- Do not eat food on which other than God's name has been pronounced 6145
- Do not eat food on which God's name has not been pronounced 6121
- Eat food on which God's name has been pronounced 6118-119
So basically you saying by obeying the following rules, the three instructions will be taken care of
1- Do not eat those animals that are slaughtered purposely for any other than God.
2- Eat all other food (except for port, blood etc) by mentioning God name first.Make sense.
I noticed that you are assuming 6145 is talking about meat and 6121 and 16118-119 are talking about general food. By reading the translation of these verses the assumption fits with the context. 6145 is talking about meet in general. While there is no discussion of meet in 6121 and 6118-119; so I take it that these verses are talking about general food.
If this assumption is right then what you are saying is making sense.
Thanks
As far as the main question in the thread referring to Group 3, OracleMir, the Qur'an has an answer
6121 Khalifa "Do not eat from that upon which the name of GOD has not been mentioned, for it is an abomination. The devils inspire their allies to argue with you; if you obey them, you will be idol worshipers."
....So group 3, or the food on which nothing has been mentioned, is also an abomination. I hope that makes sense. Peace.
Salams CavemanDoctor
Thanks for pointing out verse 6121. I totally missed this important verse.
So what is your position on 6121? Do we have to pronounce God name while slaughtering the animal or can we do that before eating the food? Verse 6121 do not mention when exactly we are required to do that.
Also, I found this article on the main page. It might be of some help http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/dietary.htm
Thanks for the link to the article.
This article is basically saying what Layth is saying. We can eat the meet on which no-one's name is pronounced at the time of slaughter. All we have to do is say God's name before eating the meat.
Thanks.
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Peace be upon you,
My understanding is as follows-
We are not to take the verse literally. Pronouncing the God's description over food means to take the attribute of the nourisher and eating good nourishing food. If you do not do that then you are automaticlly "dedicating" your food to other than God. This way there are only two choices by way of your actions/choices.
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Salams CavemanDoctor
Thanks for pointing out verse 6121. I totally missed this important verse.
So what is your position on 6121? Do we have to pronounce God name while slaughtering the animal or can we do that before eating the food? Verse 6121 do not mention when exactly we are required to do that.
Also, I found this article on the main page. It might be of some help http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/dietary.htm
Thanks for the link to the article.
This article is basically saying what Layth is saying. We can eat the meet on which no-one's name is pronounced at the time of slaughter. All we have to do is say God's name before eating the meat.
Thanks.
Peace Oracle
For the three reasons I stated in my first post, I don't think it has anything to do with slaughtering. I think pronouncing the name of God should be done when we are about to eat our own food. Why would the slaughterer's beliefs affect mine? Why should I be held responsible for something the slaugtherer did or did not do? It's pretty clear cut to me. It makes perfect logical sense and fits in perfectly with the Quran (i.e. God does not make our religion difficult for us, and more importantly, that we are only held responsible for our own deeds). You are right, that 6121 does not mention when we are supposed to say it so the best interpretation is the one that fits in with the rest of the Qur'an. And I think pronouncing the name of God on food that we ourselves are about to eat is what fits the best, for the reasons I stated.
Finally, I think it is really telling that the Quran, when it speaks of lawful/unlawful food, always stresses that there are those who invent new dietary prohibitions (it mentions the Jews in this regard) and it specifically commands us not to do so.
Peace.
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Peace,
I am of the opinion that lawful food is that which God's name is mentioned either a) when it is killed, or b) when it is being prepared/eaten.
Therefore, I would say that in your list # 1 & 3 can be one in the same.
What is a no-no is to eat that which has been slaughtered purposely for any other than God.
If food was slaughtered in someone else's name, but I thank Allah when I am about to eat it, is it halaal then?
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Anyways I have read through this thread and have taken CavemanDoctor's points, specifically this one "And I think pronouncing the name of God on food that we ourselves are about to eat is what fits the best, for the reasons I stated." into consideration, I feel that it is ok to eat food even if it was killed in the name of someone else as long as you yourself thank Allah when you consume it.
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Pronouncement of the Name of Allah was prescribed for the whole of humanity while slaughtering mammals for food.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/Temp%2001%2022.34.gif
And for each and every generation We declared one obligatory procedure so that they all mention/state the personal name of Allah upon the stout bodied mammals, which He provided them as sustenance, while slaughtering/sacrificing them,
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/022.%20Al%20Hajj/22.34a.gif
since the Iiela'aha of you people is the Only One Iela'aha.Chapter 22
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Bismillah Ir-Rahman Ir-Rahim...
I pronounce Al Lah's name over all the food in the world. -
An excellent article
http//web.archive.org/web/20080528083551/http//www.geocities.com/islamicdiscussions/haramandhalal.htmIt has also been discussed in the past several times, e.g.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8443.0- Maytata is not dead meat but it literally means a dead body or an animal that died of itself. In addition dhabha means sacrifice and does not specifically mean cutting the throat as the Quran talks about Allah providing a dhabha, and talks about the food gained by hunting through a spear and with the help of hunting animals like dogs and eagles as lawful. In addition, it talks about the fish as ?laham,? or meat also just like it talks about land animals. If ?dabha? means to cut the throat, then that means that all the fish the Muslims eat is ?unlawful? as no one does ?dabha? of the fish by cutting their throats.
The gentleman seems totally confused; equates herbivore mammals with fish, does consider animal died of itself different from"dhabha" but ignores the act involved, done one "dhabha" which is slaughter--Qatl--against and opposite to natural death.
