Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Mr zenje,i see that your definition of 'brothers and sisters' or 'nice guy' is purely on your arbitrary sectarian criteria...
Just like Mr. Peace and GoodWillHunting's criteria for calling people 'intellectual' and 'mature'.
i also see that you and others have not refuted the verses i claimed were inconsistent when taken literally...
This guy is turning into another Apple Pie. He hasn't even responded to all the posts completely refuting his illogical and made up fantasies.
I am glad that people of your intellectual incompetence have no real political power,and that western liberal democracy(although not perfect.) stops people of your mentality from propogating your extremist,illusional,inhumane,sectarian pipe dreams.
Dear God! This is just such an emotional outburst, western liberal democracy yet...
What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Emotion again? What benefit do these outbursts give us in the discussion seeing as how the refutations are completely ignored by this poster?
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Peace darbari. My sincere advice to you is start looking around the world and within yourself for answers. Your logic is totally circular.If you want to believe the quran is perfect,scientific and complete in its literal form,then im sure one day you will get a rude awakening.
If our 'real life observations' are limited well then how can you say science agrees with the quran to justify the quran is correct? I could just say well science(or real life observations.) is limited anyway,so that doesnt prove the quran is correct?
I would understand your position more if you people defending this books literalism would just say we believe it because of 'faith' and our 'feelings' and not justify it by desperate,illogical,and intellectually shallow,anti scientific assumptions based on conjecture.
Peace all.show us the contradictions , enquirer . i see that u avoid replying whenever someone posts the verses of the Koran . again ,u didnt comment on the verse that i posted .
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Peace all. Whoever wants to say im avoiding this or that or whatever... well thats fine,thats your opinions... I have posted the contradictions,and if i see anybody refute them properly then i will discuss or accept their findings. I reserve the right to discuss with people i want to...No compulsion in the deen hey.
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Peace all. Whoever wants to say im avoiding this or that or whatever... well thats fine,thats your opinions... I have posted the contradictions,and if i see anybody refute them properly then i will discuss or accept their findings. I reserve the right to discuss with people i want to...No compulsion in the deen hey.
excuse me mister
it is not like we want you to be a muslim, i don't want that really, the verse you mentioned is about compulsion in religions not compulsion in debates, ironically the debeate is started by you, however based on your flawed logic there is no compulsion for us to respond to your allegations as well, but at least we showed respect and answered you, not sure enq that you realize and understand what you do exactly? is it you man made god guiding you?
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peace ab and savage carrot.ab You asked me if i could take your offensive ...now you are crying about rules and such like...The truth is more potent than your little 'offensive'...Will these rules entail not swearing,threatening to slap or calling people enemies of allah with flimsy evidence like you have done?....Not soo tough anymore are you?... I know you cant refute much because you probably need to take more time to think outside of the box. You seem to be able to dish out abuse,but cant take much criticism back can you?
And savage carrot,what have you said about ab swearing,branding and threatening to slap people?(never mind your own sarcasm.) Are the rules only for yours and abs comfort and agenda?...And you people are supposed to be the peaceful people of justice with allahs universal words?... Sectarian double standards. You need to grow up... -
What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Did I? There you go with the putting words in other people's mouths thing, to preach your agenda. You know, you really don't have to, you've already proved yourself a hypocrite.Peace darbaari,
why dont u just quote the verses ? if u are having trouble finding the verses , this might help http//www.submission.org/quran/webqt.php
He has already denounced the book many times. (Note the hypocrisy - Most of his posts when he joined are filled with quran vers numbers and references.) Here's some verses that talk about his kind...-
And if Our revelations are recited to them, they Say ?We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!?
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And if Our clear revelations are recited to them, you see hatred in the faces of those who have rejected. They are nearly close to attacking those who are reciting to them Our revelations! Say ?Shall I inform you of what is worse than this? The Fire, which God has promised to those who have rejected. What a miserable destiny!?
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He hears God?s revelations being recited to him, then he persists arrogantly, as if he never heard them. Give him news of a painful retribution.
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And if he learns anything from Our revelations, he makes fun of them. For these will be a humiliating retribution.
Isn't it amazing that a "1400 year old book" talks of people in this era?
And isn't it even more amazing that a person who holds his conscience as his god, claims that other people who follow God and His words are egotistical?
I personally believe our conscience is our god.
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Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
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Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?
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Enquirer- Emotional outbursts do you no good. Address the issues if you can.
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Peace all. I will repost a previous post in this thread as nobody seemed to tackle it...which should have been easy given some people have gods perfect clear words available in book form...
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...You mean these verses?
1776-77 And they nearly frightened you to drive you out of the land. But in that case, they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone. This is the way of those whom We sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
The sunnat of Allah here is that ?they would have shortly been destroyed after you were gone? . there is no change in this sunnat .
3543 Arrogance on earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in God's way, and you will not find any bypass to His way.
Sunnat of Allah in this verse is that ?the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them? . there is no change in this sunnat .
4822-23 And if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor. Such is God's way with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's way.
The sunnat of Allah in this verse is ?if the rejecters had fought you, they would have turned and ran, then they would have found neither an ally nor a victor.? . there is no change in this sunnat.
How does this sunnat contradict with these events u mentioned
'What about the quran saying that allah doesnt change his ways(or sunnat or laws.) and then jesus being born without a father,adam with no father or mother,a stick turning into a snake,the splitting of the sea into two firm mountains,jesus speaking as a baby,fire not burning abraham,jonah in the belly of a whale etc...
the three verses I posted above do not say that Allah will not do any thing extraordinary .
is there a contradiction here ?! tell us .
Can you all confirm and verify these events literally?...( remember 17;36.)
What do u think 1736 says , please tell us .
I was under the impression that some on this forum quoted 1736 to make sure you verify/know something before you follow it...Is that correct? Ie; 'Dont follow that of which you have no knowledge'?
yes , and the koran is the knowledge .
276 Verily, thou receivest the Qur'an from the One Wise, All-Knowing.
any thing or event that is mentioned in the verses of the koran is the knowledge . so 1736 is about things outside the koran .
your claims are not supported by 1736 .
looking forward to your reply .
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All mankind doesnt speak arabic, and few people who didnt grow up with the language will ever master it to a degree where "evidence" such as linguistic quality makes any sense.
Here is one more stupidity of Magi..
Is there a worn inside you which does not let you stay calm? If god has used arabic language then what is problem whith you?
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I dont have a problem with it at all. I have a problem with retards who claim that one language cannot be translated into another, with full meaning avaible.
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Good post Fahad, hope we will see some 'attempt' from the OP at least...
viartualeye- I hope you can read Magi's response, I think he has clarified himself, no need to call him 'stupid', infact if you want you can take a lesson from 'enquirer' and call posts stupid, we won't think the person is, promise!
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Peace darbari. ok,you say these sunnat of allah are specific to just those verses,so i wont discuss that with you...(im sure many 'quran only' would disagree,and it would be nice of them to explain the verses if they think/agree that allah does not ever change his sunnat or laws.) Ok,then explain those list of strange literal occurences like a stick turning into a snake,virgin birth etc,etc...
Most especially what does sujood to adam mean when you should only do sujood to allah alone? Any takers?... -
Peace agentxxx. My brother i find your honesty and humbleness very refreshing.You seem to be on a path to discovery and learning. Reality is a great 'teacher' and destroyer of 'illogical' interpretations.A true message from god is never unclear to a sincere mind...I dont think anybody needs so-called strong 'beliefs'...They need open-minds,strong verified practical universal logic,and practical good morals...
Take it easy and peace. Ps;you have a very mischievious sense of humour...when is our first cricket match,boss?... -
peace enquirer,
Peace agentxxx. My brother i find your honesty and humbleness very refreshing.You seem to be on a path to discovery and learning. Reality is a great 'teacher' and destroyer of 'illogical' interpretations.A true message from god is never unclear to a sincere mind...I dont think anybody needs so-called strong 'beliefs'...They need open-minds,strong verified practical universal logic,and practical good morals...
Take it easy and peace.peace and God bless
Ps;you have a very mischievious sense of humour...when is our first cricket match,boss?...
thank you and we can start playing as soon as this thread ends
sorry brother i got all mixed up i thought it was sis s-c, i am sleepyyyyyyyy, ??? i got it right now.
peace.
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Peace bro agent,
It wasn't me...I'm currently writing a post to you ;D
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Enquirer- Emotional outbursts do you no good. Address the issues if you can.
Good morning sister, the enemy is now tryin to stir the air between the both of us
I'm sure he will fail because we are brother and sister but he is not our brother
Salam
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Peace bro agent,
Sis here are some of the inconsistencies that I find hard to comprehend, please note that I have never claimed to be an intellectual, I am just an average humane being
I think you would find it strange for someone to claim to be an intellectual here without being quite emphatically put down from different fronts, so no worries.
I wish I was like you, brother ahmed, brother zenge and all other bros/sisters on the forum who have a very strong belief, unfortunately my own understanding stands in my way. I cannot pretend to have a strong faith in the book because that would be hypocrisy. So I try to be honest to myself as well as the others on the forum and express my views in the light of my own understanding of the book at the present moment.
Please don't try to be like someone else, you are what you are and that is what makes you unique. We all have our doubts and being honest about it and trying to learn is quite enough as it is.
Let me see if I can try and help resolve these issues that are problematic. I'll address what I can and in some places link you to previous discussions about it as more opinions with evidence are better than just one. I'm sure others can help as well. It is friday night and I would like to take in a movie as well )
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Alkhabeethatu lilkhabeetheena waalkhabeethoona lilkhabeethati waalttayyibatu lilttayyibeena waalttayyiboona lilttayyibati ola-ika mubarraoona mimma yaqooloona lahum maghfiratun warizqun kareemun
The cheaters/wicked (F) (are) to the cheaters/wicked (M) , and the cheaters/wicked (M) (are) to the cheaters/wicked (F) , and the good/pure (F) (are) to good/pure (M) , and the good/pure (M) (are) to the good/pure (F) , those are being made innocent/pure from what they are saying, for them (is) forgiveness and generous/kind (reimbursement).
To me, this looks like a general principle that can be violated due to any number of reasons because of what a man or woman might choose to do. It doesn't mean that it is set in stone and that it must always happen, as a human's free choice plays into their lives. It means that these 'types' usually end up with each other but there are exceptions which are also shown. In cases of exceptions, it becomes a trial for them, just like we have any type and number of trials in our lives. Could it be that these men or women wanted to marry these people at the time and found out later what a mistake they made? We don't know the entire circumstances of their lives, but we do know that things like this happen all the time. Therefore, it becomes more important to know the people that one would want to spend their lives with and not just that but who we keep company with etc. Like the saying, 'like is to like'.
- Creation-
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BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonuCreating marvelously without precedent the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth and if He ordered/accomplished a matter/affair , so but he says to it "Be." So it will become.
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Wama amruna illa wahidatun kalamhin bialbasari
And Our order/command (is) except one as/like a twinkling/quick glance with the eye sight.
I would like to state that the be is a process, not magic emphasized by 'so it will become'. This process might seem different depending on our perspectives which are time dependent. God is outside time.
Here is a thread that may help further-
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4448.0
41 9. Say What! do you indeed disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in TWO PERIODS, and do you set up equals with Him? That is the Lord of the Worlds.
4110. And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in FOUR PERIODS alike for the seekers.
4111. Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said We come willingly.
4112. So He ordained them seven heavens in TWO PERIODS, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.There are different vantage points regarding time and space. These periods can be pointing to them. Additionally there was some discussion about the lower heaven etc in some category recently, might I suggest a search? It is not a contradiction in any case.
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Faqadahunna sabAAa samawatin fee yawmayni waawha fee kulli sama-in amraha wazayyanna alssamaa alddunya bimasabeeha wahifthan thalika taqdeeru alAAazeezi alAAaleemi
So He ordered/accomplished them (as) seven skies/space(s) in two days, and He inspired/transmitted in every/each sky/space its matter/affair/order/command, and We decorated/beautified the present world's sky/space with lights/stars and a protection/ observation , that (is) the glorious'/mighty's , the knowledgeable's predestination/ evaluation .
- Is Jesus Alive?
Please refer to the link below, I tend to agree with Joe/The Nabi and Tay on this one-
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1293.0
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Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni
And I did not create the Jinns and the human/mankind except to worship Me
7179-
Walaqad thara/na lijahannama katheeran mina aljinni waal-insi lahum quloobun la yafqahoona biha walahum aAAyunun la yubsiroona biha walahum athanun la yasmaAAoona biha ola-ika kaal-anAAami bal hum adallu ola-ika humu alghafiloona
And We had created/seeded to Hell many from the Jinns , and the human/mankind, for them (are) hearts/minds they do not understand/learn with it, and for them (are) eyes/sights they do not see/look/understand with it, and for them (are) ears they do not hear/listen with it, those are as the camels/livestock, but they are more misguided, those are the ignoring/neglecting .
I do not see any contradiction. God created jinn and men so that they serve Him. They rebel/choose not to and end up in hell.
In all these, it is essential to take in all the book and it's facets to learn the most from what one verse is saying. It gives powerful concepts when put together.
I hope this has helped.