Quick and simple question to gauge a traditional mindset...
-
peace all,
The following is based on my experience of conversing with traditional Muslims about the whole hadith/sunna and islam/quran issue.
This question quickly helps you to see how the person you are speaking with thinks and whether it will lead to a fruitful/intelligent/beneficial conversation. By fruitful/beneficial I do not mean them accepting your position, I just mean a rational discussion exploring possibilities and weighing up evidence.
Ask them if they admit prophet Muhammad was a human being / imperfect. I prefer the "human being" one, but you could use "imperfect".
By their reaction you will be able to tell how the discussion will go. You get many reactions to this question
Launch into accusations that you do not respect prophet Muhammad or its wrong to say that etc. ---> Almost impossible to be a fruitful conversation.
Refusal to admit this and even utter it ---> Almost impossible to be a fruitful conversation.
Refusal to admit it but will utter it ---> Highly unlikely to be a fruitful conversation.
Reluctantly admit it but follow with Muhammad being the greatest human being of all time. ---> Refer them to Quranic evidence showing "make no distinction amongst prophets", "hassan example, not the superlative ahsan", "told to follow previous prophets, especially Abraham", "examples of his mistakes (albeit minor) in AQ" IF they still insist he is the greatest human being then it is highly unlikely to be a fruitful conversation. If they change it to great rather than greatest then there is a reasonable chance of having a fruitful conversation.
Admit it then follow with a speech justifying their position.
Reluctantly admit it but dont follow with anything.
Have no problem admitting it.
Reply with follow up questions.
etc.I'm not suggesting you ask them this Q straight out, but if it comes up, see how they react.
-
Salam,
Isn't there even a hadith that the Prophet Muhammad said something to the effect that 'even he does not know what will happen to him when he dies' ?
I know some people think Prophet Muhammad to be "perfect".. but that seems to be something some people just do... even with celeberties..
Is it really part of "traditional" thinking that the Prophet Muhammad is perfect or is it something else? It has always been a point within the story of the Prophet Muhammad that he is only a man... a human as you say. This has been an important issue to be presented in light of the divinity status that Christians put on the Prophet Isa. So maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "traditional"? I would think that so called "traditional" and "non-traditional" Muslims would agree on this... ???
-
Peace all,
As far as my experience is concerned, I agree with Wakas that sunnis and shias view Muhammad as "divine" being (plus yet another 13 infallible imams for shias). When I was sunni, I also had that view in my mind because sunni syeikhs taught me that using the quran
533 Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
534 It is no less than inspiration sent down to himOnly after I read quran by myself do I realize that the explanation of sunni syeikhs for 533-4 is far out of context.
-
Peace to all,
Ask them if they admit prophet Muhammad was a human being / imperfect. I prefer the "human being" one, but you could use "imperfect".
By their reaction you will be able to tell how the discussion will go. You get many reactions to this question "hassan example, not the superlative ahsan"
Well most Sunnis will say that he was perfect. Even pointing out parts in the Quran where he didnt follow Gods way they say that that was not a sin/mistake nor a waver in his perfectness. Also if Im not mistaken, doesnt it also talk about others that were given the message but wavered in the Quran? Not mentioned by name though.
Also what is this "hassan example"? Hassan means "beautiful, handsome" in arabic, right?
Salam,
Isn't there even a hadith that the Prophet Muhammad said something to the effect that 'even he does not know what will happen to him when he dies' ?I believe thats from the Quran itself. States that only God will know what happens. The quran even says for him to tell others to do what they do, and he do what he does, and in the end, they will find out who the right one was. Whats ridiculous is that even today there are people that believe that Muhammad told the future.
Say (O Muhammed), "I am no more than a human like you, being inspired that your god is one god.
The day will come when GOD will summon the messengers and
ask them, "How was the response to you?" They will say,
"We have no knowledge. You are the Knower of all secrets."Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what
is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner."Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe."
Say (O Muhammed), "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of GOD. Nor do I know the future. Nor do I say to you
http//www.submission.org/future.html
-
Salam.
Whenever i talk to them and they ask me questions about prophet Muhammad, i tell them that he was a human being but that he also made mistakes, committed sins and they immediately tell me that i'm a kaffir, that i cannot be inside of Islam.
May The Exalted God, The Most Powerful protects us all from the satan the rejected, all bad people and Hellfire.
Peace.
-
peace,
Also what is this "hassan example"? Hassan means "beautiful, handsome" in arabic, right?
3321
Transliteration Laqad kana lakum fee rasooli Allahi oswatun hasanatun liman kana yarjoo Allaha waalyawma al-akhira wathakara Allaha katheeran
Free-Minds Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.You are right, in Arabic "hassan" means beautiful/fair/good/excellent, NOT best/greatest/etc. If it meant the latter AQ would have used "ahsan" which is the superlative, which it does use in other places when it is meant, e.g. 123
Transliteration Nahnu naqussu AAalayka ahsana alqasasi bima awhayna ilayka hatha alqur-ana wa-in kunta min qablihi lamina alghafileena
Free-Minds We relate to you the best stories through what We have inspired to you in this Quran; and before it you were of those who were unaware.The above was the point I was referring to. It is a clear example for everyone who is forethoughtful.
Feel free to study the root, word and all occurrences using Project Root List http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Ha-Siin-Nun = To be handsome, make good, seem good or beautiful, be excellent.
hasuna vb. (1)
perf. act. 469, 1831, 2576
n.vb. 283, 314, 3148, 3195, 1329, 1886, 2711, 298, 3352, 3825, 3840, 3849, 4223hasan n.m. (comp. adj. ahsan, husna; pl. hisan)
2138, 2245, 337, 337, 459, 486, 495, 4125, 512, 550, 6152, 7137, 7145, 7180, 817, 952, 9107, 9121, 1026, 113, 117, 1188, 123, 1318, 1662, 1667, 1675, 1696, 1697, 16125, 16125, 1734, 1735, 1753, 17110, 182, 187, 1888, 1973, 1974, 208, 2086, 21101, 2258, 2314, 2396, 2438, 2524, 2533, 2861, 297, 2946, 3321, 358, 37125, 3918, 3923, 3935, 3955, 4133, 4134, 4150, 4616, 4816, 5331, 5570, 5576, 5710, 5711, 5718, 5924, 604, 606, 6417, 672, 7320, 926, 929, 954hasanah n.f. 2201, 2201, 3120, 440, 478, 479, 485, 6160, 795, 7131, 7156, 7168, 950, 11114, 136, 1322, 1630, 1641, 16122, 2570, 2746, 2789, 2854, 2884, 3910, 4134, 4223
ahsana vb. (4)
perf. act. 3172, 593, 6154, 1026, 1223, 12100, 1630, 177, 177, 1830, 2877, 327, 3910, 4064, 5331, 643, 6511
impf. act. 4128, 18104
impv. 2195, 2877
n.vb. 283, 2178, 2229, 436, 462, 6151, 9100, 1690, 1723, 4615, 5560, 5560
pcple. act. 258, 2112, 2195, 2236, 3134, 3148, 4125, 513, 585, 593, 684, 756, 7161, 991, 912011115, 1222, 1236, 1256, 1278, 1290, 16128, 2237, 2814, 2969, 313, 3122, 3329, 3780, 37105, 37110, 37113, 37121, 37131, 3934, 3958, 4612, 5116, 7744Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 206, 207, 208
