Reincarnation
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Peace komla. Absolutely fantastic post. ! idea
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Peace Komla,
Indeed good post, and i agree with a lot of things, but i agree not with your understanding of reincarnation being the oldest understanding of humans. This is simply not true. It was an old greek philosophy that was spread and eventualy influenced Buddhism and Hinduism. Can you prove your claim by showing proofs of thinking found in ancient scriptures and thinking? And also have you read the latest understandings of reincarnation stories? I believe myself people can talk with conciousnesses that have moved back to the universe conciousness, or they can pick up the resonance of the deceased persons in the Quantum field. I keep an open mind about it..
Read my post and give your idea
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5417
Peace
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Peace be with all of you.....well brothers reincarnation has always existed trought time but unfortunately that belief has been changed just like many other religions.The gospel(the injil,like you call it),has been changed trought time but it contain some incredible passages about it,i don't know if any one of you has read it before,if not i suggest you to do it.Jesus(isa),spoked many time about reincarnation but only in parables,infact many of what he has said are still not understood until this days(the quran tells you that Jesus will be a sign for the hour if i'm not mistaken),in the injeel(the gospel),he speaks about the return of the prophet Elijah,through john the baptist(you call him Yahya,if i'm not mistaken),his disciples asked him how would they realise his return,but jesus simply told them he already came,but they did not recognise him.(let me explain this,it was rather the same soul,that habited the body of Elijah that came back again on earth in a mission to teach back human again),now like i've said resurection is a common belief to christians.By the way if all simply because of their belief that Jesus resurected again in a body on the third day.Now what people seem to misunderstand is the spiritual body,which we call the perisprit and the physical body,most people tend to mix this up(and i understand,because it's only a materialistic way of seeing things),but wen you will resurect,it's only to find again your real you in spirit,the body is nothing but a cover for you to feel the materialistic world,just like wen an astronote has to wear a special suit for him to go to space as well a swimmer has to wear a special suit for him to go to the water.Well....i'm maybe going out of subject,this was just to give an exemple.because if you go with logic,will it make sens to you to believe in a soul(to have that belief,is to actually believe in a spiritual world),but wen you tell me that resurection is in a physical form is to actually deny the spiritual world(and all your pain,your joy is only physical and nothing else and nothing more).Now for those who believe that reincarnation is also the fact to come back as an animal,well...first of all,i respect that belief because it shows you how to appreciate all the creations of God from a fly to a lion,and with that belief,those who carry that appreciate every life more than most people who claim to detain the whole truth......according to their religion.Now....there is no regression,again if God is so mercyful why would he put us in a state of high consciousness to a state of low consciousness,with that how can we learn from our mistakes,if you have done something wrong,well won't you need all your counsciousness to feel the guilt of your action???? and later on repent. Bthe way if all of you make your researches you will find out that the real christians used to believe in reincarnation,but everything changed after the coming of the popes and all those clergies,who changed that belief because it did not suit them,to make their story of jesus resurected in body credible they had to adapt that whole belief of resurection.
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Peace,
I have done research on this, i study it. I'm a theologist, and no you are wrong on this. Only a small group believed in this, the Essenens. And this was of their background, they were influenced by the Stoicins. So they took it with them into Christianity. The Nazarenes, the group that really belonged to Jesus, didn't believe in reincarnation. Also is the understanding of reincarnation from your point of view, a made-up dogma. Like true monotheism is found everywhere on earth, in all cultures the One true God, the All, is acknowledged by all cultures, even though most only focus on their made-up idols, also all believe in resurrection or passing on of their 'souls'. This is common with all cultures around the whole globe. So the true monotheism and belief in the next life is common and can be traced in all cultures. Reincarnation is only found with Buddism, Hinduism, Sikhism, some Christian sects and some other religious sects. And all of them are influenced by the same group of Greeks, the Stoicins.
Also in the old understandings of rebirths, it meant that the same kind of persons would be born on earth every time again and again, not the same souls, the kind of persons. Like the Buddha will be reborn again and again on this earth, not the same soul, the same obligation will be given to a new soul. So the same 'job' will be passed on again and again.Peace
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peace be with you...good you have done your research so did i,i've studied this as well,without forgeting i am born in a christian family,than if indeed you did study this than you would know also about a christian group called "Cathar" in the middle age,and i suppose you've also read the gospel,sice you've made your researches,in one of your post you asked me to show you in any scripture if reincarnation was indeed there,so all i did was to refer you to one of the passage so you can take it,and tell me for yourselve what you think about it.Now...i am not here to convince with my belief and say who is wrong and not,because this is what most people do in religion arguing,discussing,debating without coming to a common understanding,i will also bring you scientifical proof indeed that scientists are now interested in that issue of reincarnation,but that is not the issue,let me tell you why...to be able to believe is not necessary to see but to understand,infact wait...let me make you a whole resume of this issue since you did study,so i suppose you know,but i'll just refresh you on that incase.
RESURECTION AND REINCARNATION.
Reincarnation was part of one of the dogmatic belief of jews,in the name of resurection;only the saducees,thought that everything finishes at death,so they did not believe in it.Now the ideas of the jews on that point,like many others,was not clairely define,because they only had a vague and incomplete notion about the soul and the link it has with the body.They thought that a man who has died could come back to life again,without knowing exactly how would that happen.They used to define resurection to what spiritism call reincarnation.In truth resurection suppose the coming back of the body that is dead,in what science even prove itself to be materialisticly impossible,even wen the element of that body has been dispersed and absorbed.Reincarnartion is the coming back of the soul(the real YOU!!),or the spirit in a corporal life,but in another body that has been done exclusively for it,and it has nothing to do with the old body.The word resurection,could be indeed be used for Lazaruth(the one jesus resurected from the dead in the gospel or injil),but not for Elijah,or the other prophets.Than if we go with that belief of the jews that John the baptist(yahyiah)was Elijah,than the body of john could have only been the one of Elijah,because according to the gospel we know john the child as well as his father and mother,Than it could only be John reincarnated and not resurected.
So what i would do i will give you the exact page and chapter of the gospel for you to see it for youself(saint john,chapter 3,;5 from 1 to 12;saint matthiew chapter 11,from 12 to 15......and many more you asked me for proof i did,now for you to find ou). now my question to you is what's the goal of resurection,i challenge you to give me at least 10,if you see any justice in that to burn for eternity,and everything man sees or understand it's always in a materialistic way,now me i can give a thousand reasons for reincarnation,but one of the strongest reson i can give you,it's because only reincarnation explains the infinite justice of God.doesn't it say in the quran that God made man out of his spirit?????so what makes a human,it is rather the soul and the body but withought the soul,can we still call it a human,or a thing.The soul you can interpreted it asyour intellect,but not the body.now....sourate 91 ayat 7 to 10 what does it say?????it only talks about your soul because it's you not the body that you are in. Pecae be with you and sorry if i might have said something that offended you,this is not my intention brother. -
Peace with you all,
Firstly, I want to offer two versions of reincarnations, which i personally believe
One, is the reincarnation that concerns with the aftermath. The Buddhist concept of reincarnation doesn't necessarily acknowledge the term of soul; nor they acknowledge that the soul after which we are born into (either celestial beings, humans, or animals, or lesser and painful existence) are eternal. The buddhist quoted the transformation like from milk to butter, from butter to ghee. The butter is not the same as milk, nor the ghee is the same as butter, but they come from milk.
Peace, that is to clarify those who think we are the same soul after reborn.
While there are some buddhist schools who coined a new term for soul called 'alaya vinnana' or the storage of consciousness; within this theory, they spoke that when our body died, it returned to the elements (maybe that's why corpses are excellent fertilizer) whilst the spiritual elements (the mind) also dissolved (that explains why we forget who we are on the next life) but a tiny seed which stored all the imprints of our lives (which explain the influence of this seed on those who can recall past lives and to the general personality). But Dalai Lama himself spoke that this theory is made upon desperation to search for one speck of element which we people can proudly call as soul or the unchanging foundation. Therefore, this theory is a conjecture.
Reincarnation are complex yet simple, this paradoxical nature of aftermath is perfectly allegorized by the milk, butter, ghee.
There is also another allegory of reincarnation that is of a candle.
Say that a lit-on candle is flaming. Suppose that the life is the flame. Once it is almost exhausted (either of low wax supply, or blown out suddenly) another candle is put so that the flame can be put on the second candle. In this parable, the flame on the second candle is not the first candle, yet it comes from the second candle.Second, the reincarnation of every moment concept. Buddhist concepts are very general because it also taken from watching the nature's cyclic, everchanging nature. So did the reincarnation. The reincarnation in the second concept is the reincarnation of mind. Yes. Everyday, and even every moment, we are undergoing reincarnation.
Buddha ever spoken (Of course I paraphrased this story, and you can question the originality of this story ) of this when he addressed his monks with a question. 'Say, how long do you think one life is?"
One monk answers, "It is as long as eating a bowl of rice."
The Buddha asked for another opinion and he gets the second answer, "It is as long as drinking a cup of water."
The Buddha asked for the third opinion and he gets the final answer according to this myth, "It is as long as one breathe."
The Buddha exclaimed, "Indeed, life is only as long as one breathe."
The Buddha meant that life is just one breathe because the stream of mind (emotion, will, consciousness, memory, and .... sorry i forgot) is always eevrchanging. One moment we are happy, the next ten seconds we can be neutral (indifferent) or maybe crying. One moment we aware of ourselves fully (especially for those who are new with their lover), one moment we are zoning out (or boredom and imagine if we ask people who they are in those zoned out, they would answer 'Ha?'.
Shortly, reincarnation is the everchanging process of mind, plus our body elements (which feed the vermins and maggots and grow into trees from our mere corpse), which is a natural way of how things are,The question which people should put here is that If we are everchanging, is there finality? Or can we progress or not if everything is like maelstorm of change?
Anybody could come with a good answer?Peace to all and thank you so much for reading.
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Peace be upon you all,
Just wanted to add that the Khamitans (ancient egypt) believed and promoted reincarnation, and this is where the greeks and many others came to learn life sciences. I am told that if you master meditation (breathinig, posture, etc) that one can see back to a previous life. But of course I have not confirmed that for myself. But I am indeed practicing meditation and working on my health which is a very important factor in spirituality. If your vehicle is faulty you cant get very far.