new "Criticism on the Quran" discussion category
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salam administrators .
how about this ?(quote from http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5550.msg83244#msg83244 )
salam moderators and all .
how about creating a seperate category(title="Criticism on the Quran" for discussion on these "contradictions" . where different "contradictions" can be discussed in seperate threads . because addressing many so called "contradictions" in a single thread can be difficult . what do u all say ?I second that, the muslims should have an organised way to reply to these alleged contradictions
Salam
I agree.
Good idea. The problem is finding critics. Enquirer will simply turn a deaf ear once you answer. You need someone with integrity, honesty and open-mindedness.
I too support the suggestion of having a seperate category as has been posted. The title is quite good as has been given 'Criticism on the quran'. This will stop threads with the same issues spouting all over the place as has been currently seen. Next time we see these issues, those threads or people can be asked to take it down to the category in question, therefore keeping the forum organized. Thanks Fahad!
p.s. welcome Nadia )
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Peace darbaari
I agree with this idea in principle. However, in practice, there aren't many active members here and adding another subforum, it seems like not many posts would even be made. Just check out some of the other subforums on here for examples.
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Peace all,
i don't agree to this title
some may think that quran is attacked, while others see it differently
i'd rather say "critical anaylis of possible quran application/interpretation today"...or something like that
lk
this new category would actually be for those who want to attack the Koran . mainly for those who reject the Koran's divinity . if they want to point out "contradictions" and "inconsistencies with modern age" etc and discuss different "contradictions" in separate threads , they can do it in the new category .
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Peace,
I see elke's point. How about 'critical analysis of the quran'? I would say the existing threads already about this would fill up the category nicely let alone new stuff which (if the past is anything to go by) would be abundant.
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Salaamun alaikum,
Elke's 'application today' presupposes that al-quraan has a previous mode of application yesterday, today and tomorrow. Al-Quraan makes no attempt to temporalise its teachings and so believers in al-quraan (who say 'we hear and we obey' should adhere to that. I'm not against the existence of the issue as a critique, only in the title. The title needs to be neutral, not pro or against.
I think 'Critical Analysis of Al-Quraan' should be a good title. Moreover, I propose the categorisation according to
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criticism of al-quraan's historiography (its compilation, text, versions etc) and answers
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criticism of al-quraan's legislation
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criticism of al-quraan's philosophy (bringing al-quraan into the philosophical arena and as Nadya so aptly puts it, pushing it to its limit)
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contradictions in al-quraan
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Peace all,
I'm not against the existence of the issue as a critique, only in the title. The title needs to be neutral, not pro or against.
Exactly.
I think 'Critical Analysis of Al-Quraan' should be a good title. Moreover, I propose the categorisation according to
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criticism of al-quraan's historiography (its compilation, text, versions etc) and answers
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criticism of al-quraan's legislation
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criticism of al-quraan's philosophy (bringing al-quraan into the philosophical arena and as Nadya so aptly puts it, pushing it to its limit)
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contradictions in al-quraan
Excellent breakdown. I hope we can all agree to this category and it's sub-levels so to say.
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Peace all,
I'm not against the existence of the issue as a critique, only in the title. The title needs to be neutral, not pro or against.
Exactly.
I think 'Critical Analysis of Al-Quraan' should be a good title. Moreover, I propose the categorisation according to
-
criticism of al-quraan's historiography (its compilation, text, versions etc) and answers
-
criticism of al-quraan's legislation
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criticism of al-quraan's philosophy (bringing al-quraan into the philosophical arena and as Nadya so aptly puts it, pushing it to its limit)
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contradictions in al-quraan
Excellent breakdown. I hope we can all agree to this category and it's sub-levels so to say.
this version has my vote aswell.
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Peace all,
Criticism, contradiction or however you may call it, the real problem exists in people?s dogmatic orthodox mindsets having unrelenting and contemptuous composure. As mentioned earlier, the only possible way to understand quranic injunctions, is with open-mindedness, objectivity, scientific and logical relevancy in order to critically analyze the subject without buffering and buttering up Allah and mocking/taking HIS name in vain (emphasis on bold underlined), else there?s really no point even talking about it.
I can only maintain my respect towards Quran to be an excellent historical book to be read, understood and reflected upon of its contents which speaks in its own given time in the past, present and present continuous form with obvious errors, like any other book for that matter. Repeating myself here as a reminder to those desperados who are quick to revolt by venting out their tantrums, spewing hatred filled slogans, slamming verses at others? faces, condemning them to hell, calling them disbelievers and enemies of Islam, etc., etc., only reflect upon themselves, and the subject matter being discussed and analyzed to begin with becomes a statemate. The first person to jump in as such is AhmedBaghat, followed by mquran, the construction of discussions being portrayed is quite delegatory and enchanting, without substance.
Can't stand the heat in the "contradictions and inconsistencies in the Quran" section, talk about creating another venue to push its limits. Let us see how far it goes.
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peace danish. Very well put. I agree with almost all of what you have said....
However,I also hope that some of the posts that i have read are not a true reflection of the 'real' posters 'real life' behaviour,and i hope the 'negative' atmosphere is only because of mistakes in approach from all sides (including myself.) and misunderstandings......even if/when there are fundamental differences in beliefs/ideology,i still maintain that we can be civil and constructive with each other in order to maintain peace and benefit...(even if that means ceasing 'dialogue' in 'unproductive' discussions,for a while'.)
peace all. ) -
peace danish. Very well put. I agree with almost all of what you have said....
However,I also hope that some of the posts that i have read are not a true reflection of the 'real' posters 'real life' behaviour,and i hope the 'negative' atmosphere is only because of mistakes in approach from all sides (including myself.) and misunderstandings......even if/when there are fundamental differences in beliefs/ideology,i still maintain that we can be civil and constructive with each other in order to maintain peace and benefit...(even if that means ceasing 'dialogue' in 'unproductive' discussions,for a while'.)
peace all. )Agreed, friend. ) Just so that everyone contends that we are discussing the relevancy of a "book's" contents in the manner conveyed and presented, hence its criticism.
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peace all,
i asked one of my sunni friends, why don't you think the quran is perfect. his reply was "first of all the quran was written in old arabic. second of all, modern language and the human way of thinking changed accordingly with society. the quran is ambiguous because when a verse is upholded it has more than one meaning and it serves more than one purpose... that's the importance of hadith because it not only portrays the life of mohammed but also clarifies the glorious revelation sent to prophet mohammed(pbuh) by angel gabriel. didn't you read the surah "read, read in the name of your lord who created from a clot..."(surah 96) which is thought to be the first revelation.. he told me that's why hadith is important because without the hadith the deen/religion is incomplete". i told him about this site but he refused to accept what i told him but he wasn't ignorant in the least, i failed to REASON with him.
i am having problems with my quran alone, because even though i studied the scripture and gained the main ideas of the quran i failed to demonstrate it to my family. because of my failure, one day i told phoenix1 at school that i quit free-minds because they are not certain on an issue. in fact, people ,like me, in this site, do not quote directly from the quran.
why did i enter this site in the first place? as soon as phoenix1 told me a lot of stuff about this site at school my intuition told me thathe might be on to something. he told me to register right away but then i held back and started to read the quran myself i also tried to study this site and i found some shocking info's that totally contradicts the sunni style of life! so, in front of the astonishment of my mother(i used to pray a lot) gave up the salat. and i was utterly confused. reading the quran changed my "inner chemistry". i gave up a lot of opinions/prejudices i held in my chests as an exposure to the recitation of the quran. the last four months might seem like the turning point of my life. because what i learned made me think rationally and i found this "new islam" to be quite fascinating. because everybody in this site is so unique and free. tha'ts why i gave up sunnnism because i thought that using the quranic perspective i saw life totally amazing because it answered a lot of questions i held in my chests. then how could you still say this book which is popwerful enough to burn "diamond stone" contradicts itself?
peace, rifat
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Peace,
I support the idea given by brother "Darbaari". GOD Bless!I don't and you can't, because to bring about criticism and contradictions and at same time conjuring "an attack on the quran" and its "divine contents" becomes meaningless to further discussions. All-in-all, it confesses a blind faith.
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Peace danish. I have just read through many of your 'previous' posts on the forum,and must say you have asked many,many excellent questions and made many excellent insights into the reality of 'what is the qurans role' and the role of other scriptures. I think sometimes peoples 'sensitivity' when discussing the quran and/or their beliefs hinders a productive dialogue...I will take comfort from the fact that some on this forum do not automatically assume a person is a 'disbeliever' or a 'bad' person just because of differences in opinion or beliefs...Personally i am of the current view that 'theoretical' beliefs have a huge spectrum for tolerance and diversity (given the 'subjectivities' and different experiences/understandings of humans.) ,but that it is behaviour which is really important,as beliefs without 'decent' behaviour are almost irrelevent....I try to have respect and tolerance for quran only,sunni,buddhists,christians,hindus,atheists,agnostics,humanists,secularists,etc.. Its only when these ideologies start producing 'harmful behaviour' that i feel i have to criticise,deflect or defuse the 'harm'....I know harm can be a subjective word,and can vary slightly in different contexts,but i think a lot of people will,deep down,know what 'harmful behaviour' is...
peace all. -
DanishThe first person to jump in as such is AhmedBaghat, followed by mquran, the construction of discussions being portrayed is quite delegatory and enchanting, without substance.
The reason why THIS is the extent of your response Danish is because you are and always have been one without substance. If you had any substance, you wouldnt have been afraid to tackle my questions which simply rip open that empty slogan-throwing rhetoric of yours
'no religion' , 'no dogma', uttered by a dogmatic , religious (being fanatical about a belief IS religious and you are both fanatical AND dogmatic about being not dogmatic and religious) person like yourself is LAUGHABLE. You can't even dare to DEFINE your own terms ? Wow.
Seriously if the irreligious camp can only field proponents of this calibre. Sunnism and Christianity will win over humanity easily.