please clarify the concensus of opinion

ignoramus

salam brothers and sisters

i am new to this site and i have tried sifting through the mass of knowledge on this issue, but i am even more confused than before!

may i humbly request the SITE OWNERS or senior people involved in the running of this forum to provide some pinned article outlining what is the consenus of opininion on

what salat is
how it should be performed (if performance of such a thing is possible)
the timings of salat

i am sure the answers are on here somewhere, but for someone like, and i imagine most people, it is incredibly daunting trying to sift through voluminous posts justifying and detailing opinions. for myself, insha'Allah, i will examine the details later, but right now, i need to start with the basics.

many thanks & salam

unknownuser

Salam ignoramaus.

And welcome to the forum )

Ignoramus wrote

salam brothers and sisters
i am new to this site and i have tried sifting through the mass of knowledge on this issue, but i am even more confused than before!

David says

Everytime we see reality and that the truth it is different than what we have taught all our life, we become very confused. I was just confused like you an others at this forum in the beginning. But i was patient, and continued praying to God to show me the way, and i never gived up and continued searching for the truth.

Ignoramus

may i humbly request the SITE OWNERS or senior people involved in the running of this forum to provide some pinned article outlining what is the consenus of opininion on

what salat is
how it should be performed (if performance of such a thing is possible)
the timings of salat

i am sure the answers are on here somewhere, but for someone like, and i imagine most people, it is incredibly daunting trying to sift through voluminous posts justifying and detailing opinions. for myself, insha'Allah, i will examine the details later, but right now, i need to start with the basics.

many thanks & salam

David says

When i first found Islam based on God alone/Monotheism, Quran alone. I was confused like i mentioned earlier in this post, but i read almost all the articles at free-minds.org and rationalreality.com etc, and all things suddenly became clear. God showed me the light. Alhamdullah.

When it comes to your question, i will answear them or give links to them. One by one

When it comes to your question nr 1) and 2) and 3)

You can read what salat is in this articles, and these articles will answear all your questions

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm

You asked, how many times a day Salat should be held?

In Quran God says that Salat should be held 3 times a day. Morning, afternoon, and night.

Morning Salat - Fajr (2458, 11114)
Afternoon Salat ? Wusta (2238, 177
Night Salat - Isha (2458, 11114)

and as you maybe know, Salat is not the most important thing according to God in the Quran. here is an article about what is greater than Salat

http//www.free-minds.org/books/shah6.htm

The Salat that Shia and Sunni Imams and Scholars has taught us, is actually not the real one.

As you probably know, all Hadith collecters were persians, and persians zorastrians, muslims, jews and christians lived with eacother in the muslim world in the past. Therefore when we examine history and ritual prayer in zorostrianism we find many things that compares with ritual prayer in sunni and shia. Read this interesting article below

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0

Your friend David

ignoramus

salam David

thank you for replying.

i think the whole concept of Qur'an sans Hadith is daunting. although officially my parents are muslims, i was brought up in a pseudo westeren household; my father has never prayed, given charity or even admitted to the existence of God and gambles and drinks alcohol. i found islam elsewhere and consider myself a convert, although the conversion was over the period of many years.

for me, the Qur'an in itself is proof in itself of its divine origin, but somehow i feel i have been brainwashed into believing the mainstream of opinion on hadith, because that is what everyone told me when i tried desperately to learn about the Qur'an. i started praying salat 2 years ago and have been steadfast in it, praying the usual 5 times as well as tahajjud. over the past 2 days it has occured to me that it just does not make any sense, and i am just being a sheep.

the fact is that over the past 2 years i have prayed and prayed in total sincerity because i thought i was pleasing Allah. now i am worried because i do not know what is the truth. i believe the prophet Mohammed was perfection and i would like to follow his manners and habits to a tee. Allah says in the Qur'an to obey the messenger, but how do we do that? the question of salat is of the utmost importance to me because i feel there is something vital missing without it. now the process of trying to answer that question begins!

sorry to go off topic, but i am extremely worried, because i still beleive that there is a possibility that the bulk of conventional salat may in fact be what the prophet practised. matters are made more difficult because i think if i dare question the authenticity of hadith or modern muslim traditions, i fear for my life! i already get strange looks in the mosque because i do not wear a hat and wear usual western clothes instead of the fancy frocks everyone else is wearing and i do not feel compelled to recite the usual arabic phrase at the slightest mention of the Prophet, may Allah give him the best of paradise and preserve his GENUINE traditions.

also, the general feeling i get from the 2 days of research i have done is that those who follow Qur'an sans ahadith seems just as zealous as the mullahs! i personally do not condemn anyone's opinion and will listen to any argument and opinion, jewish, muslim, pagan or george bush. the hope is to apply my limited intellectual powers to reason through the arguments.

salam
anon!

Wakas

peace,

Firstly, it is normal to be confused (or perhaps more correctly, not have THE answer) when researching something. I personally do not see confusion as a bad thing, although I used to. Always remember to stick with what is solid (e.g. do good deeds, be honest, charitable etc) and slowly build up your knowledge on other things as you progress.

what salat is
how it should be performed (if performance of such a thing is possible)
the timings of salat

Here is a list of information on "salat" from 'al quran' that as far as I'm aware, there is very little disagreement about
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/quran_on_salat.htm

The biggest obstacle many here have had to overcome when trying to understand various Quranic issues was viewing things through the lens of their own pre-conceived notions.

unknownuser

Salam Ignoramus.

Ignoramus
i think the whole concept of Qur'an sans Hadith is daunting. although officially my parents are muslims, i was brought up in a pseudo westeren household; my father has never prayed, given charity or even admitted to the existence of God and gambles and drinks alcohol. i found islam elsewhere and consider myself a convert, although the conversion was over the period of many years.

David
Me too. You can read my story of how i came to God alone, in this link. I think we share a lot of common when it comes to searching for the truth. Here is my story

Ignoramus
for me, the Qur'an in itself is proof in itself of its divine origin, but somehow i feel i have been brainwashed into believing the mainstream of opinion on hadith, because that is what everyone told me when i tried desperately to learn about the Qur'an. i started praying salat 2 years ago and have been steadfast in it, praying the usual 5 times as well as tahajjud. over the past 2 days it has occured to me that it just does not make any sense, and i am just being a sheep.

David
Quran tells us that if we follow the majority, they will lead us astray. There are more than 2 billion christians in the world, and there are
over 1 billion Sunni muslims. The followers of Quran alone are not the majority. But that doesnt matter. Prophet Muhammed only followed the Quran alone, and he only called himself a Muslim. He never said he is a shia or sunni.

6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

And interesting think to reflect upon is whether the sunni with 1 billion are the majority, or the followers of God alone with under 1 million. There are more than 4 verses in the Quran that condemns Imams and Sheykhs etc, and many verses that tells us not to divide ourselves in sects.

God gave us a brain so that we can use it, not put it on the shelves. But Imams, Sheykhs and Mullahs doesn't want us to Question them. But as we now, even The Angels were allowed to Question God. There are lots of verses in the Quran that tells us to think and reflect, and use our brains, and reason and self reference etc..

Ignoramus
the fact is that over the past 2 years i have prayed and prayed in total sincerity because i thought i was pleasing Allah. now i am worried because i do not know what is the truth. i believe the prophet Mohammed was perfection and i would like to follow his manners and habits to a tee. Allah says in the Qur'an to obey the messenger, but how do we do that? the question of salat is of the utmost importance to me because i feel there is something vital missing without it. now the process of trying to answer that question begins!

David
By following Quran, and putting its rules in our life, we obey the prophet. The rule of obeying the prophet was very important at the time when the prophet lived, because if people did not obey him, how could they accept his message? so God told people of that time through Quran to obey prophet muhammed. And by following Quran alone we obey prophet Muhammed, because he only followed Quran. Prophet Muhammed act and lived through the Quranic laws. And many verses in the Quran confirms this. This is the only argument Sunni and Shia scholars/Imams use to try to convince people that it is wrong to leave hadith. But their argument is weak, and there 2 great articles written about obeying the messenger at free-minds

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/themessenger/obeygod.htm
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/themessenger/obey.htm

Ignoramus
sorry to go off topic, but i am extremely worried, because i still beleive that there is a possibility that the bulk of conventional salat may in fact be what the prophet practised. matters are made more difficult because i think if i dare question the authenticity of hadith or modern muslim traditions, i fear for my life! i already get strange looks in the mosque because i do not wear a hat and wear usual western clothes instead of the fancy frocks everyone else is wearing and i do not feel compelled to recite the usual arabic phrase at the slightest mention of the Prophet, may Allah give him the best of paradise and preserve his GENUINE traditions.

David
If something is the truth, it can't be threathened. If people wants to threathen something because they don't want you to have free will or think or believe as you wanna, then these people are not Good people. God wants us to love other human beings, not to hate or don't let them think as they want. If i was you, i would have leaved the mosques for a while, and especially never told people what my inner beliefs are. It is very dangerous to always speak your mind. We got to keep silent sometimes, because we never know if people are crazy or can get offended by the things that don't match their beliefs. Many people are brainwashed, and are willing to kill for their fake beliefs, and The truth can hurt them you know. It is very dangerous to speak your innerfeelings to strangers. The only one you can trusts 100% is your own family, and even sometimes our own families can betray us. So we got to keep a low profile.

Peace David

unknownuser

Here is my story

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14385.0

ignoramus

salam David

thank you for sharing your story. it is very interesting and i see many parallels with my own thinking.

i really appreciate you pointing it out for me.

alhamdillah, there are others out there that do not think it is heresy to use one's reason as the Qur'an keeps telling us.

i must admit that i am yet undecided on whether most of the rituals of mainstream islam are completely fabricated and i have an open mind. do you think it is possible that they could have remained largely unchanged since the prophet's (God bless him) time?

God Bless

unknownuser

Salaam ignoramus,

Please go through all the links and discussions referenced in the following post for my current understanding about the timed salaat/connection of the muslimeen according to the Qur'aan

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14695.msg136559#msg136559

We should be patient and connect with/to The God regularly and study the Qur'aan with an open mind and over time everything will become clear relevant to our guidance to the straight path, God willing. We should use all our God given faculties to study The God's message and pray to Him and ask for His guidance, for only The God can guide. Please see my following post for some advice

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14773.msg137145#msg137145

Hope that helps.