Quran Only- What The Hadith Acceptors Misunderstand- The Myths
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peace noprogressive and all,
my mother tells me that your "quran alone" movement is unsuccessful because you are uncertain about praying towards the masjid-ul-haram(the k'aaba). my reply is that by saying that the METHOD of salat found in the quran is also a way of saying that the quran is not complete, fully-detailed and hadith adds on the quran. if the quran is complete, how to perform salat is not fully described in the quran because allah doesn't tell us to PRAY facing the sanctuary if you see verse (2256) it never says in the qura that you would be punshed for not praying the traditional salat because the traditional salat comes from the hadith not the quran.
my confusion is that if some of you say that salat should not be performed the traditional way then why in the quran allah addresses "O you who believe, if you rise to attend the contact-method, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative."(56)? why allah tells us to pray "u'doo/wash certain parts of the body" before performing salat? is the hadith completely wrong? is part of it right? are the sayings of the prophet directly from the quran? what about the month of ramadhan? the reason why i ask so many questions is because one day i know when i go back to my religios place of "bangladesh" my imam will ask me why...? my reply will be so weak and ineffevtive that i feel that society will reject me...
i feel that's the beginning of a new problem...
peace, rifat
The Matter starts from the assumption or thinking that
Hadith is additional to Quran. And prophet only said what is said in quran.
If Hadith is needed then quran is incomplete.
If quan is incomplete then our faith lost.To just jeject the need of Ahadith, Quran only believer has to prove that quran is complete, to prove that quran is complete, he has to change the every verse interpretation which in any means tell to pray similar to traditional manner. He has to change the meaning of Qibla, Masjid, Masjid-ul-Haram, angles. He has to prove that the order of Allah to follow the prophet is actually indirectly saying that to follow Allah actuallly.
The wrong assumption starts when you say Ahadith are additional to quran and contradictory.
Actually all problem of completeness of Quran and Ahadith is solved when we read the verses about to follow the prophet as it is "that we should follow prophet".
When some book is written then it contains some background knowledge also, some further reading reference also, those further readings are not actually something additional or contradictory But the detailed explanation for the reader. so, Along all direct orders, Allah says follow prophet, so when we follow prophet also...that means quran is completing itself. Ahadith are the classnotes of the text book (Quran).
If Allah would mention each and everything in Quran then it would be consisting of thousands of volumes unable to be handled by human beings. so the solution process was, Quran+Sunnah+Fiqh.
Quran the divine revelation.
Sunnah the detalied workshop.
Fiqh for the futuristic inventions and matters.For just one example
If some muslim says I think blood transer to other person is ok according to Islam.
Other would say according to my understanding its not ok.
Third person would say something else.so no way of uniting muslims, as every muslim will have its own interpretation.
Now where the solution to this problem is in Quran, How? Quran says follow prophet and prophet says if there will be something in future about which you will not have direct instruction the you will do "Ijtihaad".
Other wise there is no way for muslims to unite.
Sincerely,
VirtualEye. -
Peace,
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To just jeject the need of Ahadith, Quran only believer has to prove that quran is complete, to prove that quran is complete, he has to change the every verse interpretation which in any means tell to pray similar to traditional manner. He has to change the meaning of Qibla, Masjid, Masjid-ul-Haram, angles. He has to prove that the order of Allah to follow the prophet is actually indirectly saying that to follow Allah actuallly.Change meaning? VE, maybe the original meaning was changed by the hadith, ever thought of that? And you haven't understood the difference between following the prophet, and following reports written down 200 years later. There is a big difference between those two.
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When some book is written then it contains some background knowledge also, some further reading reference also, those further readings are not actually something additional or contradictory But the detailed explanation for the reader. so, Along all direct orders, Allah says follow prophet, so when we follow prophet also...that means quran is completing itself. Ahadith are the classnotes of the text book (Quran).But you don't have proof the Hadith are to be trusted. You just assume they are to be trusted, that is the argument. As Quran says itself it is complete.
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If Allah would mention each and everything in Quran then it would be consisting of thousands of volumes unable to be handled by human beings. so the solution process was, Quran+Sunnah+Fiqh.This is contradicting, because first you say God didnt mention everything in the Quran, because otherwise it would be thousands of volumes, and then you say He did say all those things and it is spread out in thousands of volumes......
And secondly, why do you believe all those details are neccesary? You are demanding the exact same thing as the people of Moses with the calf. Asking and waisting your time on trivial details. And by thus losing reason and progress.
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Quran the divine revelation.
Sunnah the detalied workshop.
Fiqh for the futuristic inventions and matters.Funny as the Quran, only says the prophet was given Quran, and the prophet will only complain people has deserted the Quran (2530) And you and other people say we must follow the prophet, by following thousands of books, all made by man, that rely on reports based on hear-say written 200 years later. And were forbidden with the first rulers, as they were burned every time.
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For just one example
If some muslim says I think blood transer to other person is ok according to Islam.
Other would say according to my understanding its not ok.
Third person would say something else.so no way of uniting muslims, as every muslim will have its own interpretation.
Now where the solution to this problem is in Quran, How? Quran says follow prophet and prophet says if there will be something in future about which you will not have direct instruction the you will do "Ijtihaad".
First, we must this decision on scientifical rules and ethics of the goodness of the deed, which will give enough indications if it is for the better or not. This cannot be judged on books written in the middle-ages.
As by thus all the scholars will, and are now differing on this. So your pretentious argument that fiqh will solve this is ignorant, as now still all scholars differ on organ-transplantation and blood-transfusion.That is why it only can be a scientifical and ethical matter, which the Quran says easy enough, that we must do the best for society.
Peace
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peace arnoldyasin,virtualeye,
i have several more questions.
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you see not all the "important" members of this site have the same opinion because their opinion is affected by their view of life. their knowledge of the scripture is therefore is not the same. how did i arrived with this conclusion? t found a verse in the quran that is directly telling the believers that when we recite the scripture, we provide a barrier amongst you and those who do not believe(sorry for not citing)... this led me to think why even if someone has "mastered" the quran has different opinions because that is his/her reflection of life.
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when i said to one of my friends, "i believe there is no need of hadith, because everything is detailed in the scripture and etc..." his reply was oh yeah, the quran is confusing because every time god mentions a command he says "WE" not "I" thus implying god is plural rather than singular... i couldn't reply to his question because he caught me off guard.
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quote from edip yuksel's article
To observe prayer one must make ablution (443; 56). Ablution is nullified only by sexual intercourse or passing urine or defecation. Ablution remains valid even if one has passed gas, shaking hands with the opposite sex, or a woman is menstruating. A menstruating woman may observe contact prayers, contrary to superstitious cultural beliefs (56; 2222; 6114-115).
what part of the quran tells youablution is nulified only by sexual intercourse or passing urine or defacation? what part of the quran tells you ablution remains valid even if one has passed gas, shaking hands with the oppsite sex? i agree with the menstration prayer for women because it is supported by the scripture...
brother arnoldyasin, i have read about every salat article even before i registered in this site. in fact i conducted a brief mental study on the "positions" of the people in this forum using the criterion. my mother and my family was shocked by the knowledge i had obtained because i used the criterion to simply tell them that the purpose of the quran is to improve your character and know god.. that is why i was ignorant of the salat because i felt that salat was a medium for acheiving those goals and they lost to my argument on that one! simply, i quit this forum for about a month or so because my family urged me to "rifat, concentrate on your studies, study islam when you retire or something" that statement makes no sense to me because my life-long passion about learning the ways of god is nullified by their command (if i follow it).
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arnoldyasin, did you know that there was another member in this forum that states "salat = reading". can't you wonder, if everyone here is following "GOD ALONE" then why arnn't they certain on what they are propagating why can't they be unified? my conclusion is either they have limited knowledge on the quran or the languge of the quran itself is somewhat confusing to them
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what verse in the quran tells people to interpret the quran any way they want? you view the "ant story" differently because your viewpoint changed from the knowedge you have obtained... while others feel it is only an allegory... do you understand the one point i am tryin gto get across from all this?
in my opinion, the quest for certainty and truth supercedes the directive from god of performing the salat...
peace, rifat
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MrHumble2. when i said to one of my friends, "i believe there is no need of hadith, because everything is detailed in the scripture and etc..." his reply was oh yeah, the quran is confusing because every time god mentions a command he says "WE" not "I" thus implying god is plural rather than singular... i couldn't reply to his question because he caught me off guard.
What did you reply or would you reply to your friend in the end?
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peace mquran,
when god mentions "we" in the quran it is simply implied that the message has gone through the angels to the prophets thus "we" becomes appropriate in that sense because the messengers are a unit working for allah the messengers are carring the message of allah that's why it has been said we. my friend replied, if the message of the prophet is the word of allah then why don't you believe i the hadith? my reply was shall i seek other than allah as a judge when he has sent this scripture "FULLY DETAILED". then his reply was then why is the quran " so ambiguous"? i couldn't reply to him then but later, as i read the quran i realized that the stories, and examples are just details thus supporting the PURPOSE of the quran...
havn't you heard of the expression, "it's the inside that counts"
)
peace, rifat -
when god mentions "we" in the quran it is simply implied that the message has gone through the angels to the prophets thus "we" becomes appropriate in that sense because the messengers are a unit working for allah the messengers are carring the message of allah that's why it has been said we.
Sorry, I cannot agree with you here because 2/23 uses the word 'our servant'. We're to become only servants of Allah, not of his agents.
my friend replied, if the message of the prophet is the word of allah then why don't you believe i the hadith? my reply was shall i seek other than allah as a judge when he has sent this scripture "FULLY DETAILED".
Good one.
then his reply was then why is the quran " so ambiguous"? i couldn't reply to him then but later, as i read the quran i realized that the stories, and examples are just details thus supporting the PURPOSE of the quran...
Ambiguous ? I wonder what examples he would use here ?
havn't you heard of the expression, "it's the inside that counts"
In al-quraan, our inside (imaan) must equate our outside (islaam).
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peace mquran,
then what does god mean by "we". maybe that is why i couldn't get my family and friends to reject hadith simply because i failed to demonstrate that quran alone is enough or is there a disease in their hearts?
peacce, rifat
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Sorry, I cannot agree with you here because 2/23 uses the word 'our servant'. We're to become only servants of Allah, not of his agents.
If you fully follow this bogus theory you are saying,,,,then you should never thank any person in life who did good to you or helped you. Because that helping person is the creation of Allah, and was happened to help you by the wish of Allah, so you should not thank him, and should say him that "I am not thankful to you" and you should just I thank Allah. right?
If we can thank a person who just helped us in this temporary world matter then why cant we be thankful and grateful to the person who was made the source of our eternal success???
To believe in Quran, you had to trust the prophet (SAW) that he is saying truth. You had to depend upon the saying of Prophet, because Allah did not send the revelation to you.
I am in debt of all generations who were source of transfering the word of Allah and sunnah of Prophet to me. I thank them all, And I thank Allah, without the permission of whom I would not be given the light of right path.
Sincerely,
VirtualEye. -
peace virtualeye,
To believe in Quran, you had to trust the prophet (SAW) that he is saying truth. You had to depend upon the saying of Prophet, because Allah did not send the revelation to you.
doesn't that make you wonder why would enemies of islam change the hadiths. after all, the quran is the sayings of the prophet because if the prophet kept his mouth shut then there would be no such thing as muslims and so on...
do you see what i am saying?
peace, R-man
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peace virtualeye,
To believe in Quran, you had to trust the prophet (SAW) that he is saying truth. You had to depend upon the saying of Prophet, because Allah did not send the revelation to you.
doesn't that make you wonder why would enemies of islam change the hadiths. after all, the quran is the sayings of the prophet because if the prophet kept his mouth shut then there would be no such thing as muslims and so on...
do you see what i am saying?
peace, R-man
My point in it is that,,,,Quran also came through "Messenger", our Prophet Muhammad (SAW). so we somehow are thankful to him also and certainly thankful to Allah also that he sent the Blessings to the universe in the form of Muhammad (SAW).
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peace ve,
My point in it is that,,,,Quran also came through "Messenger", our Prophet Muhammad (SAW). so we somehow are thankful to him also and certainly thankful to Allah also that he sent the Blessings to the universe in the form of Muhammad (SAW).
supporting the prohet does not mean thanking him. isn't the prophet a mere human like us? all that he did was because that his solely mission, which is to deliver the quran and nothing else.the universe is not in the form of mohammed, if it was then there would be no people of any other faith besides islam. do you not understand. the quran is enough for a simple living, it contains no bulls*** nor any superstitions like those "so called sayings of the prophet which the liars invented to divert the muslims of this world" sunnah cannot be performed by everybody because the sunnah tells you to eat certain types of food, wear certain types of clothing move i a certain way. the sunnah puts you i a deadlock that everybody lives one life. wouldn't life be boring if everybody did the same things(no diversity?) there would be no such thing as democracy in this god gifted world if everyone thought in the same manner. if now you insist that quran alone is not enough(which preomotes diversity) and there is a need for sunnah then here is my suggestion virtualeye
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go to another forum which is based on sunnism(no free speech)
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stay in ths forum and learn and open your mind
peace with concern, rifat
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peace ve,
the sunnah puts you i a deadlock that everybody lives one life. wouldn't life be boring if everybody did the same things(no diversity?) there would be no such thing as democracy in this god gifted world if everyone thought in the same manner
That is why I say that its the "Wish" or Nafs which compels the Quran Only people...because 90% or them living in non-muslims countries and nutured and living along the generations of Bastards, they find it rediculous to follow sunnah.
They want to mention a lot of quranic interpretations and at the same time they want to watch movies also,,,,they want to socialize with their Girl friend and boyfriends ,,,,they want to dance in clubs also......They feel it rediculous to use viel,,,,as they see themselves from the eyes of other,,,not the wish of Allah.And btw, who the hell told you that I support sects and their websites??? I believe in Ahadith which are authentic,,,not sectarianism of shia and Brailvi etc....
VirtualEye.
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you forget the sect of sunnies ;D
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virtualeye,
That is why I say that its the "Wish" or Nafs which compels the Quran Only people...because 90% or them living in non-muslims countries and nutured and living along the generations of Bastards, they find it rediculous to follow sunnah.
They want to mention a lot of quranic interpretations and at the same time they want to watch movies also,,,,they want to socialize with their Girl friend and boyfriends ,,,,they want to dance in clubs also......They feel it rediculous to use viel,,,,as they see themselves from the eyes of other,,,not the wish of Allah.And btw, who the hell told you that I support sects and their websites??? I believe in Ahadith which are authentic,,,not sectarianism of shia and Brailvi etc....
VirtualEye.
is it right to prejudge based on limited knowledge about the society in the west? i know plenty of nonmuslims who don't even watch t.v. (because they do not want to get influenced by media. what you said is corrrect for a portion of majority but not all.) are you impling that the members in this site are like that? was that your definition of a "hypocrite". what you say and why you say things are starting to become clear )
surely, a healthy mind always knows what is best for him. and i agree with you on the issue that the western ideology/impression of "free-sex" is definitely not healthy from any moralic perspective.
surely, what you said is correct for some while wrong for others. of course, i could bet you you could find prostitutes in a highly islamic religious society, can't you?
it's all about the individual...
peace, rifat
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peace, i will let the quran do the talking
Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply."
If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean supplied the ink, augmented by seven more oceans, the words of GOD would not run out. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.
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peace "ike" brother,
You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.
what i don't understand is that "the scripture"? what words did allah use in the quran to describe scripture? is it the theoratical quran only(my viewpoint concerning al furqaan which is it contains a brief introduction of all life's laws while we discover them) or real life application? do you know?
peace, rifat
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peace
the word used for 'the scripture' is al-kitab (also true to my best knowledge of the free-minds/progressive translation)
scripture is anything delived to a prohpet by God. That's what makes a prophet different than a messenger, a prophet brings a scripture.
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peace
the word used for 'the scripture' is al-kitab (also true to my best knowledge of the free-minds/progressive translation)
scripture is anything delived to a prohpet by God. That's what makes a prophet different than a messenger, a prophet brings a scripture.
Peace bro
can you please explain to me when a prophet that is also a messenger, how it works?
Salam
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As Salaam Alaikum,
I would like for this thread to be a general clarification of what "Quran Only" people believe. hopefully you all could add on to it.
Myth- Muslims Who Follow Quran Only Don't Belieive in Obeying The Messenger
Those who follow the Quran only do believe in obeying the Messenger! For goodness sakes, in the Quran it say to obey the Messenger! But we don't obey the Prophet through hadiths though. Instead we obey the Prophet Muhammad through what we read in the Quran.
For instance, if you read the Quran you would see that Allah did not directly tell people a number of things. Such as he did not directly tell women to cover themselves, he did not directly tell people to abstain from alchohol, and he also did not tell people to say certain things during salaat, INSTEAD he told the Prophet Muhammad to tell people these things. These are the things that many of us follow, therefore we ARE obeying the Messenger.
Myth- "Quran Only" means you seek no help or advice from anyone else concerning religious doctrine
WRONG.
"Quran only" is not about not seaking help or adivce from other people concerning religious doctrine. What it means is that the Quran is the ONLY religious authority.
We do NOT beleive that hadiths are meant to be followed because we do not believe that the Quran mandates them, therefore we do not follow them! Those of you who accept hadiths believe that they are, but we do not!
We do not accept "religious rules" when these rules cannot be found in the Quran, or when there is no logical reasoning to support a "rule" in the Quran.
ok that's all that I can think of for now.lol
salaam
Salam,
The job of the messenger is "just to deliever the clear message". Now the question is what is the message? What we know is that the message is protected by Allah. The message was completed before the Prophed died. The message is the book/Quran. We obey the messenger by following the Quran and thats all. Although he was a leader as well for his community and its OK for people to listen to him at that time. Today we have leaders as well, whether they are Muslims or not. The Quran inform us to follow those who are in authority.
Me myself was a little confused about the hadith as well. I suggest you read all of it, refer it to the Message (Quran), and hopefully you will reject his corruption. I had to reject it, as what happen is God send the message to the Jew and the Christians, but they corrupted it and likewise the Muslims have been doing the same damn thing. I am glad the Quran can not be changed. The only problem is that the understanding of the Arabic words have been corrupted or been frozen in the past by the understanding of primitive-desert Arabs. Translations are another problem.
Peace
Peace