Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
-
Peace MQ and Danish
I skimmed through the commnets quickly and will respond later Toady to danish argument
For MQ, thanks bro for the support you gave me agianst danish malicious, false, misleading, and fabricated lie, that I lied about the Quran, if I made a mistake then that is not a lie mister smart danish, however I can assure you that my mistakes are min and will never go beyond the count of your fingers in one hand, it is simply because I follow the literal Quran
Salam
Since MQ failed miserbaly, only to bring about his frustrations and OUTCRY, I will await for MQ's "master" to respond in exactly the manner I requested earlier in my last post, which got neglected again, and I very much doubt, that learning from your recent past encounters, it would be of any "authentic" value, unless you adhere to basic elementary discussion ethics.
As I mentioned much earlier, you're pretty good in Arabic grammatical linguistics and language, and that's all there is to it. In other words, no substance to understanding and refelcting upon the very "grammatical linguistics" you bring about. For example, the LIE that mquran and you bring about and support each other, out of merciless bickering and no substance whatsoever, accusing others for the same. Now check out this thread, when mquran confessess that you NEVER LIE about Al-Quran and let the forum members decide http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5264.30
AhmedBaghat's and mquran's outcries and lies and a twisted version of mquran to support Ahmed as he cunningly puts it as "weakness of the FACT" along the lines of GOD's Words instead of "LIES", can be easily exposed and witnessed throughout this forum.
As far as I am concerned, mquran, AhmedBaghat and their likes, are the worst enemies of Quran themselves. If you don't believe or trust me, read their past and current posts with diligence and just be patient. I'll expose them in their own manners in which they confess. Perhaps many are not aware and time will tell. "Politics in Religion" within this forum alone, next heading coming soon. That's all for now.
-
As far as I am concerned, mquran, AhmedBaghat and their likes, are the worst enemies of Quran themselves.
I agree with Ahmed Baghat on what he says regarding Qur'an.. I respect and certainly of the same views that Qur'an is errorless like MQuran. It is sad to know that we are the enemy of Qur'an. ;D
-
As far as I am concerned, mquran, AhmedBaghat and their likes, are the worst enemies of Quran themselves.
I agree what Ahmed Baghat says. I respect and certainly of the same views Qur'an supremecy like MQuran. It is sad to know that we are the enemy of Qur'an. ;D
Instead of making such outwardly flowery claims, refute my points in the manner requested earlier. No need for dodging and sweating it out without any substance whatsover. Just refute what I said earlier in its proper context and at http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5264.30 when it defies TRUTH as per your Quran.
Is there anyone on this forum, other than mquran, AhmedBaghat and his cronies, who would like to educate me on my concerns in proper ethical discussions??? Assuming that I've gone astray or a total newbie, now EXPLAIN in detail your relevancy in contrast to my claims mentioned earlier, in order to bring me back to the belief that Quran IS the actual WORDS OF GOD and nothing else.???
-
Hello all,
Hello Danish
AhmedBaghat?s fetish and frustrated lengthy rebuttals were perplexed and steamed out in both the cases I presented above,
Hehe, look mister danish, you even could not respond to it and acted like a child by posting further crap about the Quran without resolving the previous matters, this tells me that you are exactly as what MQ said, you always have a runner then come back later with more crap and non sense, I refuted your non sense fair and square, remember when I told ya we must have judges?, now you now mister cry baby cry why the judges are required, to stop you from crying my dear friend because I knew in advance that this is what you will do, cry baby cry
venturing out in circles to distinguish time periods and events in which those verses speak of, with a touch of tasty fruits and rotten blah blahs, and guilty of core concerns unresolved. I hope this time he won?t sweat as much for it?ll make it simpler in his case, for time, place and event mustn?t be a concern because
You are the one who is Guilty as charged, and I charged you with Kufr but I won?t force any punishment on you because I can?t neither I want to, I will leave this to Allah, but Allah told me in the Quran to tell you that the hell fire is really hot, I can produce a flash movie for you so you can have an idea, I will try to make it the one hell of a hell movie as close as possible to the descriptions in the Quran, would you like that mister hot?
The Quran challenges mankind to bring a (one) surah like it (223 and 103
Is this an alleged contradiction or what mister hot?, can?t you present your comments in a more logical way so the dumb can follow it?, or your comments are only for the smarts mister smart?
I hope you understand what the challenge is from the first place
Are you still on that Trip?
Now mister mister, or mister hot whatever you like to be called, Sura like it must follow the following criteria
- it has a similar content
- it has to be from a god
Now I?m sure you were not aware of point 2, but logically speaking mister hot, did the Quran explicitly said that the sura like it must be in the content? NO, IT NEVER DID, therefore LIKE IT must be in any aspect that the two will be compared including the author identity and both authored must be gods so we can compare them and which one has authored the best content
now that non sense in the link you posted, I was aware of it ages ago mister hot, can?t be admissible because simply they are made by a bunch of humans and not by a god as well the Arabic linguistics are weak, funny as well full of errors, the content is total nonsense despite they they stole many verses from the Quran to make it sounds like it while total non sense are inserted in between, how the hell a non Arabic speaker like you can compare the two from the language point of view? Also is it translated into English so you can judge its content?
Now let me make it easier for ya to understand
The Quran says about itself this is a book authored by the God and it challenges humans/jinns to bring ?Ietto? a sura like it, now that sura must be by a god as well, or we can?t compare the two indeed
Now it will be hard for the believers to confirm that the author of the Quran is the God and it will be hard for the losers to bring a sura like it from a god, therefore the challenge can?t be met and the outcome is really simple
The believers believe in what they believe and the losers believe in what they believe, it is not like the condition yo believe if only when to fail to bring a sura like it
Khalifa
If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.Yusuf Ali
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.Pickthal
And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave, then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful."Progressive Muslims"
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.?Original Arabic Text?
(23)
(24)-> See, EXACTLY AS I SAID, the condition is ? call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful?, NOW THAT WITNESS MUST BE THEIR GOD WHO MADE A SURA LIKE IT, did you get it mister smart?
-> That is why Allah said in 224 ? But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it),?, because He knows that there is NO OTHER GODS WHO WILL PRODUCE A SURA LIKE IT
To be continued?.
-
Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."Yusuf Ali
Or do they say, "He forged it"? say "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides God, if it be ye speak the truth!"Pickthal
Or say they He hath invented it ? Say Then bring a surah like unto it, and call on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful."Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say he invented it? Say "Then bring a chapter like it, and call upon whoever you can besides God if you are truthful!"(3
-> Mister smart, as I said before and was confirmed in 223, it is confirmed here again in 1038, the sura like it must be from a god and that god must come to witness and prove that he is the author ?Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides God, if it be ye speak the truth!?
Not satisfied, the Quran further challenges to bring yet another 10 surahs instead of one in precisely the same manner as in 1038
Well, the challenge was 10 suras like it and from a god, that god must also come to witness and prove that it was him, the due to the failure the challenge was reduced to JUST ONE SURA and that is a mere 3 verses from a god
Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated," tell them, "Then produce ten suras like these, fabricated, and invite whomever you can, other than GOD, if you are truthful."Yusuf Ali
Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call whomsoever ye can, other than God!- If ye speak the truth!Pickthal
Or they say He hath invented it. Say Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!"Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say "He invented it!" Say "Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."?Original Arabic Text?
(13)
(14)-> Again and again and again, the first challenge for 10 suras must be from a god and that god must come and witness that it is from him as a condition to be truthful ?Then produce ten suras like these, fabricated, and invite whomever you can, other than GOD, if you are truthful.?
Clearly in it says ?If they fail to meet your challenge,?because Allah knows that there no gods who will author 10 suras like it but Him, then Allah added ?then know that this is revealed with GOD's knowledge, and that there is no god except He. Will you then submit??, see the inclusion of ? there is no god except He?, is the outcome of the failure of that challenge because they will fail to bring their gods who authored 10 suras like it, NOW I ASK YOU DANISH ? Will you then submit??
You may ask me why the hell this does not apply on the Quran, why the Author of the Quran should not come and give a witness that it is from Him?, well, because the Kuffar are the ones who are challenging NOT US, we only convey a message for God sake, it is their arrogance and denial that is stopping them and consequently the onus is on them to prove their claim without any doubt, we don?t need to prove that the Quran is from Allah, we only believe in it and you should only reject it but not to bloody rants like divorced wife who does not want to let go, that the Quran is not from Allah, and you can bring a sura like it, well, if you can then YOU HAVE TO BRING THAT GOD TO GIVE A WITNESS THAT IT IS FROM HIM and you will never be able to do it so why not shutting the hell up?, you can only reject and we can only believe, and that is what the Quran said exactly in 1040, a couple of verses after the 1038 challenge
39- Nay, they reject that of which they have no comprehensive knowledge, and the final sequel of it has not yet come to them; even thus did those before them reject (the truth); see then what was the end of the unjust.
40- And of them is he who believes in it, and of them is he who does not believe in it, and your Lord best knows the mischief-makers.
(39)
(40)-> See, you reject it despite after 1400 no one came with a sura by another god like it? - Nay, they reject that of which they have no comprehensive knowledge?, at least Allah is telling us that that you and the likes like you are uttering nothing but utter non sense because you lack the knowledge mister Danish ? of which they have no comprehensive knowledge?, what you are doing mister Danish is exactly like many losers before you in the last 1400 years ? even thus did those before them reject (the truth); see then what was the end of the unjust?, Allah knows that despite all that it will end with a bunch of rejectors and a bunch of believers ? And of them is he who believes in it, and of them is he who does not believe in it,?, that is what both of us can do bro, however I?m sure this bit in the verse is about you? and your Lord best knows the mischief-makers.?
To be continued?.
-
Mr. Ahmed, the un-smart,
Read and understand what I requested for, to mquran, KGB and yourself earlier. If you can't, then forget about it. I'll understand your pain, frustrations and sweating to exercise your senses. I am not going to circumvent around you and your cronies, like you do at Haj. This clearly shows yours, mquran's and others' weaknesses in proper refutations and ethical discussions.
-
If the challenge is not met, then we must acquiesce to the following without being punished
But then, lo and behold, if the challenge is made, they are sent to hell; so much for the challenge in the first place
As for those who strive to challenge our revelations, they incur Hell.(51)
Your ignorance is really horrendous, 2251 is not talking explicitly about the Quran verses rather all the signs including the Quran, but yes for you after seeing that no one came with a sura like it by another god for 1400 years and you insist in following Satan then ? they incur Hell?, and ?they? includes you and satan and many other like yous
And here is the challenge met for not one but all ten in Arabic (with English translation on some)
http//suralikeit.com/Shove it until you bring the god who authored it to be a witness if you want us to believe that you are truthful, EXACTLY AS ALL THE CHALLENGE VERSES TOLD US
Now, Mr. Ahmed, you are at your liberty to bring any or all translations that exists today including the literal one (whatever that means), heck bring your own invented one and see if anyone can patch-up the above 3 verses for me in a consistent, coherent and non-contradicting fashion.
I slam dunked you three times mister hot, where is the other god of the above non sense to give witness AS PER THE THREE VERSES to make us believe that they are truthful?
If quran is GOD?s words as allegedly claimed, then please clarify the following concerns
- Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-mighty?
The 10 suras challenge was not met then it was reduced to 1 sura and still for 1400 years is not met because we need that god who authored the sura like it to give a witness if you want us to take you as a truthful man.
- Doesn?t the challenge to bring 10 surahs or even one for that matter, reveal weakness in GOD?s words by itself in which it speaks?
No it reveals the weakness of the Kuffar like you because for 1400 years you failed to bring the god who authored these suras like it, this is one condition in all 3 verses if you want us to believe that you are truthful.
- Why the challenge in the first place? If GOD guides people whomsoever HE wills, then the question of challenge, whether met or not, shouldn?t arise? It seems a forced issue.
The challenge is because Allah knows that dumb deaf and blinds as well ignorant will come and challenge the message of the Allah to humanity and in the process they mislead zillions, therefore Allah is exposing those to us because they will fail to bring the god who authored the sura like it to give witness that he did as such and in this case I will take them 100% truthful, this is what all the 3 verses said not me, read them again mister smart
- If challenge is not met, then one should believe in it without incurring hell, but when one tries to challenge, one goes straight to hell. Isn?t this called, ?double standards??
The challenge has nothing to do with the belief, it is only designed to expose the lies of the ones who say that here is a sura like it, what they missed in the three verses that we need that god who authored the sura like it to come forward and give witness that he is the god who did it and when this happens, one of the conditions will be met, then we need to go through the content and the language aspect comparisons, now look at you, you are still ranting so far you never brought to us the other god who authored the sura that you think it is like it, until then you will be considered nothing but a ranter and a time waster
- What is the reward for meeting the challenge and why?
The challenge can?t be met as Allah told us because there will be no other god to produce a sura like it, you rant too much bro
- Why the contradiction and inconsistency?
That is a lie by an ignorant bound to horrible destination, I?m not cursing you, I would like that you join us to a possible way of avoiding that hell of a punishment, the path you are choosing now will only secure a horrible seat in hell for you
- Once again, 8015 comes into play, as elaborated earlier.
Once again mister deaf, 8015 is talking about the angels, you have no bloody point whatsoever and has always been slam dunked
NOTE ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.?
Now let?s consider the Quran is right and Allah is the Author, then
Me and mquran ?The Liars? will be entitled to Allah forgiveness, but the likes of you will only rotten in hell, See, still me and mquran as liars and Quran believers will be in far far better situation, in fact even if Allah doesn?t forgive our lies we still far better than you, let me convince ya
In math we have something called infinity which means a huge number that can?t be known
If you subtract any known number from it, the result stays Infinity (whatever huge the subtracted number is)
So for argument sake me and mquran as liars will be put in hell a limited time for our lies, you on the other hand will be put in hell for Eternity = Infinity
So if me and mquran will have our rectums barbecued in Hell for let?s say 10,000 years, now let?s see the difference between those years we will spend and what you will spend in Hell
Infinity ? 10,000 = Infinity
Holy Moly Danish, you are a clear cut loser indeed
Salam Dunk Danish
-
Holy Moly, Mr. Ahmed with a "slam dunk".
You are truely a hypocrite and a BIG LIAR, along with mquran and a few others. Let the forum members witness how certain ahadiths are GOD'S WORDS as per your admonitions and then I will crush your above tricky yet alluring and fancy analysis of my concerns. Have you read and met the CHALLENGE, MR. god of MQ? Have you answered my concerns in sequence and did you bring about YOUR TRANSLATIONS of the 3 verses in questions WITH EXPLANTIONS refuting my claims. I guess not, just vent, bicker and sweat out to discredit your own self and make it look good. What a pathetic way of discussion.
-
Danish
Why would you believe anyone's words when are are refusing to understand and accept the words of God?
Are anyone's words GOD'S WORDS? Ahmed confesses that salat is mentioned in ahadiths? Are ahadiths GOD'S WORDS to believe in the methods and instructions of salat? Can Ahmed bring step by step methods of salat performed by the sunnies and shias to be found in ahadiths, let alone in the Quran to become GOD'S WORDS? If they are found in ahadiths, would they automatically become GOD'S WORDS as well? Why isn't there anyone in this entire forum to discuss my concerns in the manner requested? WHY are some venting and sweating out, something that is NOT asked for?
Please re-read my earlier posts to Ahmed and as well as mquran? Why can't you guys stick strictly to what is being asked for; afterall I am concerned of Quran being GOD'S WORDS, nothing else? I am not condemning people to hell, nor have I called them disbelievers of GOD, neither do I get involved in personal attacks unless provoked, and neither do I fancy favoritism. My ONE AND ONLY concern is and has recently been, and that is whether the Quran is GOD'S words or not, by questiong its intent, that is all. And look what I get in return.
Many don't have the slightest idea or an iota of weight of what they are talking about themselves and yet blame and condemn others when hit with questions of quranic critism and that includes mquran, Ahmed and all others who are unwilling and uncooperative to discuss matters in an ethical manner to overcome core concerns, but would rather bring about blah blahs and tuty fruities which the Quran Aloners are reluctant to support. Do people here truely think that Ahmed NEVER LIES about the Quran as professed by mquran? If not, then why don't others confront them of their lies instead of hiding behind bushes and letting the discussion sway away in contempt. These very people will come out abruptly to support them only if they correct and hide when they are proven wrong. Such are the hypocrites and liars which your own "holier than thou" book condemns.
-
Danish
Truth I really don't bother to read your Enquirer Agentxxx posts against Qur'an. I am not interested in your philosphy. You don't believe that Qur'anic verses are the words of God. Fine but don't try to impose your opionion on everyone. Why everybody should the same opinion as yours?
We can exchange views on Tennis. Never again on Qur'an. I don't expect you to believe what I believe and I certainly don't like you try to impose your understanding on me.
-
Are anyone's words GOD'S WORDS?
Of course not, so far only the Quran that claimed to be the exact words of Allah and no one came forward and said otherwise with compelling proofs, those Quran critics are nothing but a bunch of real losers
Ahmed confesses that salat is mentioned in ahadiths?
LOL, mate, your IQ started to drop in my Profiler 2006 DB ?I can email your profile report?, of course salat is mentioned a lot in the hadiths, did I deny that somewhere or did I say, it is from Allah?, look bro you are running in a closed loop, you keep changing the subject to new ones without you conceding defeat for the previous ones, or at least tell me that you decided not to fight it any more, i.e. you throw the towel then we can move to another subject
What puzzles me is the word ?confesses?, why the hell you made it a confession?
Are ahadiths GOD'S WORDS to believe in the methods and instructions of salat?
Did I ever suggest that?
Stop trying to manipulate smartly, in fact you look like an idiot, sorry, it is obvious to everyone even the young ones
Can Ahmed bring step by step methods of salat performed by the sunnies and shias to be found in ahadiths,
Why I have to do that?
I only CONFESSED that I accept the hadith that is qualified by the Quran as a mere teaching from a great man, did I ever said the contrary since I joined?
Now accepting any hadith is a personal choice but is important at the same time, at the time before the prophet the way they were praying was corrupt anyway, so the prophet taught them how it should be done and he was given this licence as a teacher by Allah, NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO REFUTE IT but I will only debate it with any Quran alone and under judges and rules, other than that I don?t want to waste my valued time, THE PROPHET HIMSELF SAID IN A HADITH THAT IF THE QURAN DOES NOT QUALIFY ANY HADITH THEN WE SHOULD IGNORE THAT HADITH
let alone in the Quran to become GOD'S WORDS?
Allah is the only one who claimed to be the Author, if you can?t tell us who are the authors and prove it then you should stop crying and making noise, this is annoying indeed and I don?t want to ignore you yet
If they are found in ahadiths, would they automatically become GOD'S WORDS as well?
Who said the above crap?
Most certainly it is you, I?m sure the sunni even don?t say such non sense, now you bloody changed the subject to the hadith, this tells me that you are running around confused after I shocked you with my last refute to the Quran challenges, LOL, now the Quran challenges is not only that, there is others as far as I believe
- there is one to create a fly
- there is another to bring the sun from the west
and I?m sure there is more, why the hell no ones takes on those challenges then?, because they know they will never be able to even come near that, see this is double standards by the enemy of Allah, but they are confused because we need a sura like it by a god not by a human, why we compare a human book with a god book?, would that be reasonable?, can we compare a Porch with a Fiat?, if you want to do that then fine you have to also create a fly as well bring the sun from the west.
Why isn't there anyone in this entire forum to discuss my concerns in the manner requested?
Because what you are showing, is clear cut arrogance which does not make it like a concern from your side, rather you want to look smart but the reality is you look really dumb now, deal with it and stop ranting unless you can prove your crap beyond doubts
WHY are some venting and sweating out, something that is NOT asked for?
I don?t know that I was sweating, did you see me on my web cam?, well if you say yes then you are a liar because I don?t have one, but again the reality is, your eyes are sweating really bad, this is called crying.
Please re-read my earlier posts to Ahmed and as well as mquran?
Oh yeh, please do everyone and give us your opinion
Why can't you guys stick strictly to what is being asked for;
Is it us or you who shifted to many other subjects including the hadith and so far every non sense you say, I produce a logical refute to it that the least is enough to raise certain doubts in your non sense
afterall I am concerned of Quran being GOD'S WORDS, nothing else?
Oh really?, and after all I?m concerned that you should join the right path because you sound like a good man and I donlt want you to suffer in Hell for Infinity
I
am not condemning people to hell, nor have I called them disbelievers of GOD,Well, neither me, but the truth that you should handle is this, Allah is telling you that in the Quran, and told the believers in the Quran to tell you that from the Quran, I can show you the verses if you like mister arrogant?
neither do I get involved in personal attacks unless provoked,
Same here, but any attack on my religion which solely the Quran and all the prophets must be defended by me and that is an order in the Quran, now in these sort of religiously oriented debates you have to expect the heat so please stop crying and deal with it
a\nd neither do I fancy favoritism. My ONE AND ONLY concern is and has recently been, and that is whether the Quran is GOD'S words or not, by questiong its intent, that is all.
Then let?s do it with judges and rules, and as you can see that so far I proved my word that it will be damn hard for you to prove it so what you said before that it is so easy to prove a contradiction in the Quran was nothing but utter BS as I also told you before.
And look what I get in return.
You get in return what you deserve, you are the one who started it any way so be a man and stop crying please then deal with it.
Many don't have the slightest idea or an iota of weight of what they are talking about themselves and yet blame and condemn others when hit with questions of quranic critism and that includes mquran, Ahmed and all others who are unwilling and uncooperative to discuss matters in an ethical manner to overcome core concerns,
Do it under judges and rules because honestly we are wasting our time this way and as everyone can see there are some who cry a lot
but would rather bring about blah blahs and tuty fruities which the Quran Aloners are reluctant to support.
How about your blah blahs and your tuty fruities? Or you are innocent of such act?
Do people here truely think that Ahmed NEVER LIES about the Quran as professed by mquran?
Again no one can prove that but Allah, see you always talk non sense indeed.
If not, then why don't others confront them of their lies instead of hiding behind bushes and letting the discussion sway away in contempt.
Well, I will leave this problem for you and them to resolve, I don?t stick my nose in other?s affairs
These very people will come out abruptly to support them only if they correct and hide when they are proven wrong. Such are the hypocrites and liars which your own "holier than thou" book condemns.
Holy moly Danish you totally lost it
How about you have a tuty fruity?
Salam
-
Salaam
I actually stopped coming back to free minds because of silly wars like this. I probably still should stay away from here, I think.
This seems to be an environment where our most common greeting is just a phrase and nothign else ..... (.But reading this thread it is really very hard to stay away because things are said here that just simply hurt the limits.
Danish, when you claim a relationship to a certain piece of knowledge, be it a human philosophy, a so called sacred book, an experiment of science, you first of all need to establish the internal claims that this piece of knowledge sets.
And you can only claim a real relationship to that certain piece of knowledge when you have acquired enough knowledge and came to consistent conclusions about the internal claim of that piece of knowledge.The qur'?n, in that context, calls only those its champions who trust in its internal consistency and perfectness. This is a basic internal claim of this book and if you ever studied that book you know that!
Knowing that it is highly ironic when you call those here who try to establish that trust the biggest enemies of al qur'?n, probably in opposition to you who does not try to establish that trust.Critical thinking is allowed, questioning is allowed, but don?t dare to call yourself a follower of al qur'?n when you reject one of its most basic internal principles and don?t call those who uphold that principle enemies of the qur'?n.
This is quite ridiculous and self exposing and I am sure you know that yourself!You are free to be a believer in Allah and His qur'?n or not. Not taking the qur'?n as your map in life does not necessarily make you a bad person.
Believe in it or not. But don?t play games with it and its own established internal principles!Listing your supposed contradictions without their specific contexts shows a lack of of having dealt with the book in a more than superficial manner.
I am sorry to say it that way. I definitely don?t want to join the not so nice language here. But, see, anyone who ahs every studied the qur'?n in detail knows the importance of context and knows that the context defines the precise references of precise words.
Sura is just such a word. It is a word of quranic Arabic like any other. And the way it is used and what it refers to in detail is not conceivable without context.You should take it as a sign when even Ahmed Baghat and mquran agree in opposition to you. You know that they don?t have the same way of getting closer tot he qur'?n but since they at least both studied it they both have an agreement on its internal principles that you missed.
Furthermore, from what I can observe here it looks quite clear to me that both Ahmed Baghat and mquran have much more acquaintance with the original Arabic text than you have.
And that really settles things.
You can not solely rely on translations of others. Even if you quote several of them. Translations are always ideological. Sunni translations somtimes are quite different from Shii translations etc.
You always want others to translate for you.
Why not, if you claim to love the qur'?n, try it on your own, getting into the language?It is your own loss when you always take mquran's inquisitive questions as offensive. Instead of lecturing to you he gives you a possibility to ask your self about the inconsistencies that your viewpoint might have with internal principles of the qur'?n.
Why not just answer the questions instead of starting to talk about liers and enemies??
A good discussion is about answering questions in a sane way and not about averting any need to answer by shouting abuses.
The same applies to Ahmed's way of introducing you to the actual text.
You do know that in general I agree much more with mquran than with Ahmed in my views and that I don?t accept Ahmed?s codification of the Arabiclanguage but still I think his struggle is much more honest than yours here.
He does know his principles.This does not mean that the others here did not maybe sometimes make mistakes in the choice of their tone and words. But there is a very bg difference here
No personal offense to you. Really. Just hope that you might want to think a little bit about these liens.
But I DO feel offended A LOT, and so must anyone else, when I see someone claiming to know the qur'?n but not abiding by its own principles, accusing those who do of being enemies of the qur'?n.
This is really a very very serious offense!bye,
Leyla
-
DanishSince MQ failed miserbaly, only to bring about his frustrations and OUTCRY, I will await for MQ's "master" to respond in exactly the manner I requested earlier in my last post,
If I failed to answer you, could you show us how? Merely ranting it like a mad person doesn't make it true? Are you so devoid of substance that this is the best response you could come up with?
Danish, I feel sorry for you. I guess you're so overawed by the 'technology' and 'progress' you see around you that all this talk of scripture might seem 'pendu-ish' to you. What's even sadder is your lack of ability, willingness and objectivity to consider that you and your 'essence of nature' BUNKUM (yes, that's what it is, BUNKUM and you know it and THAT'S why you refuse to step up with it) might just be no match for The Book of Allah.
Well, exchanges with you and your ilk do help increase imaan, so its not a total waste of time...
-
ABFor MQ, thanks bro for the support you gave me agianst danish malicious, false, misleading, and fabricated lie, that I lied about the Quran, if I made a mistake then that is not a lie mister smart danish, however I can assure you that my mistakes are min and will never go beyond the count of your fingers in one hand, it is simply because I follow the literal Quran
Well, that's one thing I respect about you. You're a true defender of your beliefs. If you believe it, you're not afraid to discuss it, unlike some. Discussing with you is certainly more beneficial than discussing with intellectual cowards.
-
KGBI agree with Ahmed Baghat on what he says regarding Qur'an.. I respect and certainly of the same views that Qur'an is errorless like MQuran. It is sad to know that we are the enemy of Qur'an
Enemies huh? A guy who claims al-quraan contains contradictions yet refuses to discuss it (hit and run , thats what Danish does) has no credibility, KGB. You can witness for yourself the guts some of these people display. It's an embarassment.
-
Peace Leyla,
Very insightful post, I wish you would post more often but I can understand the hesitancy.
-
Peace all,
Ahmed has once again brutally and cunningly twisted and mocked all three verses, as it is his JOB to do. His entire pathetic understanding and analogies drum beats around ?another god?. He insists once again by his zesty flowery discourses that all 3 verses are talking about another god bringing a ?surah like it? and thus concludes that the challenge cannot be made. Firstly, these verses do not imply an iota of semblance as claimed by Ahmed (see verses below), secondly, none of my claims have been refuted by him but simply twisted around with impressive extra baggage of ?another god?, just like he did earlier twisting and circling around ?separate events and separate times? with some blah blahs, without refuting its core issue. I guess he loves to ?circumambulate? around false dogmas and yell blah blahs. What a stylish frenzy and lollipop treats to heaven.
The Quran was meant for humankind and jinnkind, not ?another god?, LOL. The Quran was written by MEN not ?another god?. The message originated from Muhammad, a human not ?another god?. The challenge Muhammad gave was to his people, not to ?another god?. What the heck are Ahmed and Mquran trying to achieve here? O I get it. The ?master-student? vendetta that teaches their own selves ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.? This crucial statement is going to haunt them forever and thank GOD for exposing it from them.
Note Although the meaning of ?god? can be several, but relevant to the discussion, only a human is venerated as ?god? as in ?a powerful ruler or a despot or a handsome man or a man having superior qualities? (check dictionary), which makes my case even stronger.
Like it or not, your refutations are just mimicries without substance as always and YES, THE CHALLENGE IS MET BY A HUMAN, NOT A GOD, WHICH SPEAKS VOLUMES AND YOU CAN DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT, BUT BICKER WITH FRUSTRATIONS. PERIOD.
Pickthal
And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.
Sher Ali
And if you are in doubt as to what WE have sent down to OUR servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers besides Allah, if you are truthful.Pickthal
Or say they He hath invented it ? Say Then bring a surah like unto it, and call (for help) on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful.
Sher Ali
Do they say,He has forged it ?' Say,Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call for help on all you can, apart from Allah, if you are truthful.'Pickthal
Or they say He hath invented it. Say Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!
Sher Ali
Do they say,He has forged it ?' Say,Then bring ten Surahs like it forged, and call on whom you can apart from Allah, if you are truthful.'ALL the above verses are talking to humans to whom the Quran speaks of, not "another god".
-
Leyla is only here to support her majnu at ANY COST. I remember the cat and mouse play some time ago.
-
What the heck are Ahmed and Mquran trying to achieve here? O I get it. The ?master-student? vendetta that teaches their own selves ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.? This crucial statement is going to haunt them forever and thank GOD for exposing it from them.
Danish, you're some kind of a desperado, aren't you? You need to resort to lies about me in order to feel big. When did I say the challenge is to 'another god' ? AB has his view which I disagree to. Why don't you address MY responses? Because you know, they will end up exposing the hollowness of your points. Why don't you call upon the 'essence of nature' (sic) to help you out there, pal? I really feel bad for those who have the misfortune of knowing you in real life.
A 'sura' is a coherent discourse about something. In this case, 2/21-22 has shown what that is, the existence of the human being in the world. His needs and what he needs to do to fulfil them. Of course, when we read in the unscientific way that you do, all we can come up with this is the typical Muhammadan tale of poetry comparison. It's just so pathetic when you think about it.