Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Did you even care to read my last post to you and re-read my reply #412 or do you need eyeglasses or better yet resurrect Aristotle to improve your comprehension level. Your above responses are just WINKS at best, nothing else. Get it?
I have read them because unlike you, I want to discuss. Sadly, reply 412 doesn't acknowledge the INVALIDITY of your first critique. If you were sincere, you would first admit that your first critique is wrong and wasn't based upon anything but faulty translations. Secondly, you'd also admit that your total lack of Arabic wouldn't be helpful for the 'suralikeit' website.
When are we going to discuss 'essence of nature' ? I have a good laugh everytime I type it. You're good at coining terms but just display hot air when it comes to backing up, huh?
LOOK WHO'S TALKING!
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I believe Danish Enquirer and Agentxxx if keep posting against Qur'an deserve no reply. Ahmad Baghat has spend so much of his time explaining in detail the contradictions posted by Agentxxx and he still side with the people who post nonesence against Qur'an. People who believe Qur'an is the not from God will keep disrupting the discussion for the satisfaction of their ego.
Salam,
I don't think these are against the Quran. Though we have the right to critically evaluate the book whether it is from Allah. I believe it is from God because there are no contradictions in it. However, the understanding of the people of the past slighted clouded the meaning of it, especially when it come to translations. I think we need to reinterpret the Quran always, to the situation/circumstances that we are in.
Peace
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I believe Danish Enquirer and Agentxxx if keep posting against Qur'an deserve no reply.
wtf?!
Ahmad Baghat has spend so much of his time explaining in detail the contradictions posted by Agentxxx and he still side with the people who post nonesence against Qur'an.
That may be how you see it. What i observe is that the "explanation" is mainly ad hoc posting of verses, and when people protest and tell why they disagree, the argumentation provided loops. Or turns into nothing but nitpicking, wich is why i personally chose to step down. It would seem that nothing good comes out of it, other than make come to the point of nonsensical ad hominem posts.
People who believe Qur'an is the not from God will keep disrupting the discussion for the satisfaction of their ego.
you just pulled that one our of your butt didnt you? I dont think people are saying that the book is not divinely inspired as many other great works. But i object to the notion that it should be the word of God 11. Tell me this, why is it that everything has to be coded in a way so you have to spend anormous amounts of time deciphering it, when it ALL comes down to some very simple ethical rules, that people who are aware figure out book or no book anyway.
dont kill, dont steal, dont waste you time on imaginary things, walk in peace etc. How come it always has to be made as cryptical as possible and wrapped into things that makes absolutely no sense, that makes sure to devide people into groups with each their pet truth, so sure of themself and their truth that other people dont deserve an answer to questions e.g.
Why is it that speaking outloud against a view on the Quran is so bad? I have seen nobody argue against the Quran as a message, but that is how it is taken for some reason. Why is it an attack?
peace
Whipping of porn actors? why? what is reasonable about whipping anyone?
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I believe Danish Enquirer and Agentxxx if keep posting against Qur'an deserve no reply.
wtf?!
Ahmad Baghat has spend so much of his time explaining in detail the contradictions posted by Agentxxx and he still side with the people who post nonesence against Qur'an.
That may be how you see it. What i observe is that the "explanation" is mainly ad hoc posting of verses, and when people protest and tell why they disagree, the argumentation provided loops. Or turns into nothing but nitpicking, wich is why i personally chose to step down. It would seem that nothing good comes out of it, other than make come to the point of nonsensical ad hominem posts.
People who believe Qur'an is the not from God will keep disrupting the discussion for the satisfaction of their ego.
you just pulled that one our of your butt didnt you? I dont think people are saying that the book is not divinely inspired as many other great works. But i object to the notion that it should be the word of God 11. Tell me this, why is it that everything has to be coded in a way so you have to spend anormous amounts of time deciphering it, when it ALL comes down to some very simple ethical rules, that people who are aware figure out book or no book anyway.
dont kill, dont steal, dont waste you time on imaginary things, walk in peace etc. How come it always has to be made as cryptical as possible and wrapped into things that makes absolutely no sense, that makes sure to devide people into groups with each their pet truth, so sure of themself and their truth that other people dont deserve an answer to questions e.g.
Why is it that speaking outloud against a view on the Quran is so bad? I have seen nobody argue against the Quran as a message, but that is how it is taken for some reason. Why is it an attack?
peace
Whipping of porn actors? why? what is reasonable about whipping anyone?
;D
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Magi
You certainly did not understand what I am saying. It will be of no use to respond to your post.
this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
peace
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;D man you were better person with Noah name. You got it wrong again.
and you are again telling me that im wrong without clarifying. So i take it that arrogance is a trait of people who really understand the Quran, right?
Its funny how people who really understand the Quran, forget the most simple instructions in all their understanding of the Quran. what happened to "when greeted with a greeting, greet better or atleast equally". Is that only for people who are in the right team?
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Hi Magi
Sorry did not greet you properly. How are you doing my friend? )
Peace
dont worry about it, you proved a point of mine well by not doing it in the context ). Dont worry. Now could you please humble yourself, to tell me why you think im so wrong?
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Magi/Noah this is so arrogant i can hardly belive it. You are telling me that i dont understand what youre are saying, but upfront decide that im not worth clarifying for. Is this a reoccuring theme that you have found somewhere in the Quran?.
I don't think this is what KGB meant. However, if he did, I do understand his frustration. This forum thanks to a great level of freedom afforded has attracted the wayward stragglers of the net. People who have nothing better to do than to heckle, to troll and to generally belittle the beliefs of others. You might not be one of them, but you do have a similar worldview to them which rejects authority. I thus wonder why you're here for al-quraan proposes authority of the messenger to the believers.
I think that at the end of the day, its ridiculous to waste time when the other party has nothing better than 'look who's talking' as his counter-response. I'm here to deepen my knowledge of al-quraan. I have much to learn and if others want some information I have, they're welcome to it as well. What I'm not here for is the type of off-handed treatment al-quraan has recieved at the hands of some people here, even those claiming acceptance.
I understand KGB's frustrations. Some of us here are here to learn, not to waste our time with people unwilling to learn.
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peace all
this thread is such a waste (of time).
I say we start a new thread, and instead of all those emotional responses and name calling, let's address each alledged contradiction one by one. Let someone post a possible contradiction and let's discuss that first and then move on to another.
I don't think a thread like this is of any use, because if we here cannot have a common agreement on what the quran says, how can we decide whether something is a contradiction or not?
too much name calling, and not enough discussion. And then there's the language. No wonder only a few people have been posting in this thread. -
For the benefit of all, I shall once again for the last time, re-post my reply #412 addressing my concerns, hence this time mquran won't have any difficulty comprehending or dodging them. I shall make it even CLEARER by highlighting in bold and underlined for him to respond to.
For example, lets take point 1
I asked Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-Mighty?
His reply 11/14 has NO phrase 'fail to meet the challenge'. That came from the Danish's Official Storage of Lies Produced to Comfort Himself in His Rejection.Firstly, his reply is totally out of wack and not even close to what I am questioning.
Secondly, he brings about 11/14 which has nothing to do with my question. My first point was to do with the challenge itself as in 11/13 and NOT "failing to meet the challenge" as in 11/14, which is the another concern.
Thirdly, he brushes off without explaining himself regarding his own invented response.
Lastly, he brings about the extra baggage and nonsense as in italics above which again has nothing to do with the question asked.How am I suppose to move on in replying back with such disgusting and unethical way of discussion he brings about whilst boasting that he wants to "discuss" in proper manners and his mutterings about 'hit and run' and not addressing his points, resurrecting Aristotle, etc., etc.
Mquran's work is cut out by responding to the very first "underlined" statement below to begin with. If he still persists in playing games by dodging issues, brushing off without explanation, injecting extra baggage, bringing other issues irrelevant to discussion, then he's simply not worthy of any discussions with me.
Sounds like you love to mercilessly bicker for crying out loud, rather than presenting a coherent and meaningful refutation or even a decent discussion, which is your's and Ahmed's norm. Talk about 'hit and run'? You bet, scares the heck out of me from "people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin".
What 'merciless bicker'? Why don't you address my points? Instead of bluffing your way through this discussion? If you want to bluff, put on a sunni costume and teach at a madressa. You can make up anything you like there as long as it deifies Muhammad.
Here are my points for you again, which of course you will never dare to step up to
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11/14 has NO phrase 'fail to meet the challenge'. That came from the Danish's Official Storage of Lies Produced to Comfort Himself in His Rejection.
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22/51 is from ANOTHER context, nothing to do with sura challenges.
And as for your points
Point 1 is your opinion. Nothing concrete at all.
Point 2 is for clarification. Im asking you HOW does it show weakness?
Point 3 is your opinion yet again (a substitute for hard facts, obviously).
Point 4 has been proven false due to your fallacious interpretations, thanks to your total lack of scholarship on the issue.
Point 5 I have answered. There's no possibility of meeting the challenge, according to Al-quraan.
Point 6 is false once again due to your false interpretation.
If you're genuine, why don't you disprove my corrections of your facts? Why just stand on the soapbox with nothing but soap?
Present the translations of the verses in question which YOU THINK is best and EXPLAIN them, not with surfaced fancy winks, as in, ?22/51 is from ANOTHER context, nothing to do with sura challenges.? This is neither a refutation nor an explanation to my points, but simply brushed off, and that is what is called a bluff and an empty soapbox, a rhetoric. Now read the following very carefully once again, as I am not willing to repeat and educate a thickheaded in repetitious and un-relentless manner, or else you certainly need to resurrect the scribes in 8015 who compiled the Quran in its current fashion to give you a logical answer (not Aristotle).
Now, Mr. Ahmed, you are at your liberty to bring any or all translations that exists today including the literal one (whatever that means), heck bring your own invented one and see if anyone can patch-up the above 3 verses for me in a consistent, coherent and non-contradicting fashion.
If quran is GOD?s words as allegedly claimed, then please clarify the following concerns
- Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-mighty?
- Doesn?t the challenge to bring 10 surahs or even one for that matter, reveal weakness in GOD?s words by itself in which it speaks?
- Why the challenge in the first place? If GOD guides people whomsoever HE wills, then the question of challenge, whether met or not, shouldn?t arise? It seems a forced issue.
- If challenge is not met, then one should believe in it without incurring hell, but when one tries to challenge, one goes straight to hell. Isn?t this called, ?double standards??
- What is the reward for meeting the challenge and why?
- Why the contradiction and inconsistency?
- Once again, 8015 comes into play, as elaborated earlier.
NOTE ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.?
And here is the challenge met for not one but all ten in Arabic (with English translation on some)
http//suralikeit.com/REMINDER Don't miss out on the one underlined above, give detailed explanation to my points with authority and make sure you read the link (challenged met).
Final note I will not respond to your frustrations, bickerings, brush-offs and incomplete renderings of flowery zesty nature and your cries will simply sit and rot along with you.
I edited to insert my "quote" and "your cries".
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Danish
are you still crying bro?
ok man how about this, why not you prove to us the "Sura Min Mithlihi" means "from the language point of view only"
I'm trying to make it easy for all to understand
now if you will come without any proofs then i advice to chuck a U turn and go back to do some home work first
Thanks
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peace AB,
can you please tell me the literal meaning of the word "surah?"Peace bro
to be honest man there is no literal meaning to the word surah that I know of other than the folllowing
Surah is the feminine form of Sur which means "Fence", however there is no such thing called a feminine form of a Sur "Fence" in arabic, therefore the word Surah is unique and was newly produced to the arabic language via the Quran, and the traditionists understood it as a Quran chaphter
This is another clue actually because Mithlihi is masculine and Allah has refered to Himself using the same exact word "Mithlihi" in another verses, now we have the word Min before it then it means from mithlihi i.e. from a god like Allah if there is any, and sure Allah asked them to bring him forward if they are truthful
Peace