Why no record of prophets in europe,australasia and america?
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AB, before I respond to your above post, can you please tell me
- How you understand 41/53 (relative to my nonsensical understanding)
well, i explained how 4153 is understood according to its clear arabic words, regarding your understanding, i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, if i thought wrong then I'm sorry, but if I thought right then it is you who have a lot of explnation to do regarding that word "Ayaat"
- What you understand by the word 'ayat' being an Arab.
Thanks.
I don't really care bro what is the origin of the word Ayat, the word is common Arabic word that means miracles, and the singular form is Aya and it is feminine and also used a lot in arab countries as names given to the daughters
Thanks
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ABwell, i explained how 4153 is understood according to its clear arabic words, regarding your understanding, i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, if i thought wrong then I'm sorry, but if I thought right then it is you who have a lot of explnation to do regarding that word "Ayaat"
I was talking about 41/53, so yes im afraid you misunderstood. However, 41/52 also speaks about al-quraan, using the word 'kaana' and the pronoun 'hi' in 'bihi'. If you disagree , would you mind explaining why?
I don't really care bro what is the origin of the word Ayat, the word is common Arabic word that means miracles, and the singular form is Aya and it is feminine and also used a lot in arab countries as names given to the daughters
Common Arabic? How nice. Can we talk about UNcommon Arabic, that is the Arabic of al-quraan please? If 'ayat' means 'miracles', can you
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explain what you understand by 'miracles' ? Uncommon events or supernatural events?
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give me an example of 'ayat fil afaaq' as mentioned in 41/53.
thank you )
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ABwell, i explained how 4153 is understood according to its clear arabic words, regarding your understanding, i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, if i thought wrong then I'm sorry, but if I thought right then it is you who have a lot of explnation to do regarding that word "Ayaat"
I was talking about 41/53, so yes im afraid you misunderstood.
You damn right I know that you were talking about 4153 here is your comment
KGB, God Himself is telling us that his ayaat (including those about Musa, Isa etc) appear in our souls (41/53). So how can it be nonsense?
now the above is absolutely non sense , how I will see what happened to Moses in my soul?, man you come with some weired idea from another planet sometimes
so now it is clear that your are the one that explained wrong as well misunderstood
However, 41/52 also speaks about al-quraan, using the word 'kaana' and the pronoun 'hi' in 'bihi'. If you disagree , would you mind explaining why?
I didn?t mention 4152 , can you please stop trying to confuse me?, YOU AND ME WERE TALKING ABOUT 4153,
Here is the two verses in arabic
(52)
(53)if 4153 menas by Ayaat the verses of the Quran then the second part of the verse must reflect that and should refer to the Ayaat ?Inaha? not to the Quran ?Inahu?
I don't really care bro what is the origin of the word Ayat, the word is common Arabic word that means miracles, and the singular form is Aya and it is feminine and also used a lot in arab countries as names given to the daughters
Common Arabic? How nice.
How maniulative you are Mquran?, you look professional to me, I didn?t say these two words only I said the word is common Arabic word, now read it again and I?m sure withouot being manipulative you will know that the common was describing the word not the arabic, haha nice try though but very shifty
Can we talk about UNcommon Arabic, that is the Arabic of al-quraan please? If 'ayat' means 'miracles', can you
You can talk with you self this new language you created called uncommon arabic, I only mean a common word mister smart
- explain what you understand by 'miracles' ? Uncommon events or supernatural events?
a Miracle is a miracle
Uncommon events or supernatural events
2. give me an example of 'ayat fil afaaq' as mentioned in 41/53.The knowledge of the big bang, the embryo phases of creation knowledge, all these are miracles that the Quran talked about and was discovered in the Horizons i.e. in the future
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ABYou damn right I know that you were talking about 4153 here is your comment
Did you now? How interesting. Then why did you say i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, in reply 113 above?
now the above is absolutely non sense , how I will see what happened to Moses in my soul?, man you come with some weired idea from another planet sometimes
It's certainly not from your planet, I grant you. However, this in itself doesn't make it 'absolutely non sense'. In fact, I'm quite happy to not be on your planet.
so now it is clear that your are the one that explained wrong as well misunderstood
if so, then why did you mention 41/52 above?
I didn?t mention 4152 , can you please stop trying to confuse me?, YOU AND ME WERE TALKING ABOUT 4153,
You did, im afraid, in reply 113i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong,
now if 4153 menas by Ayaat the verses of the Quran then the second part of the verse must reflect that and should refer to the Ayaat ?Inaha? not to the Quran ?Inahu?
Nonsense. 41/53 begins by saying 'sanoorhim ayaatina FIL AFAAQ wa fil ANFUSIHIM'. If Allah shows AYAAT to you in these 2 places, how can they be ayaat of al-quraan?
How maniulative you are Mquran?, you look professional to me, I didn?t say these two words only I said the word is common Arabic word, now read it again and I?m sure withouot being manipulative you will know that the common was describing the word not the arabic, haha nice try though but very shifty
AB, I couldn't care less for you, your hyberboles or your common arabic nonsense. I'm only responding to you because i'm interested to know why my statement is nonsense. Your only response to that was the 'different planet' comment. That's the limit of your 'professional debator' persona.
a Miracle is a miracle
Uncommon events or supernatural events
I see. So if ayaat are contained in al-quraan and it says things like 'be good to your parents', the next time I'm good to my mum and dad, that's a supernatural event? Shall we call some paranormal investigation team?
The knowledge of the big bang, the embryo phases of creation knowledge, all these are miracles that the Quran talked about and was discovered in the Horizons i.e. in the future
Haha, so you can see the big bang in your AFAAQ and NAFS? That's some afaaq you have there, AB!
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ABYou damn right I know that you were talking about 4153 here is your comment
Did you now? How interesting. Then why did you say i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, in reply 113 above?
It seems your english is another thing from another planet like your arabic exactly
now the above is absolutely non sense , how I will see what happened to Moses in my soul?, man you come with some weired idea from another planet sometimes
It's certainly not from your planet, I grant you. However, this in itself doesn't make it 'absolutely non sense'. In fact, I'm quite happy to not be on your planet.
Unfortunatly you live in the same planet that I live in and we will continue to live together on it regradless you like it or not, but I?m sure on the JD we may be worlds apart
so now it is clear that your are the one that explained wrong as well misunderstood
if so, then why did you mention 41/52 above?
obviously you are not smart enough to realize that it was a typo, here is what I said again
well, i explained how 4153 is understood according to its clear arabic words, regarding your understanding, i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong,
see I was talking about 4153 from the start after in the second instance above it was a mistake, and that is the max you can do just looking for typos and making an issue of it
I was taking about 4153 all along up to my comment above and including that comment above, 4152 above is a clear typo and is obvious from the start of my bolded comment above that I was talking about 4153, can you please stop wasting my time, thanks?
I didn?t mention 4152 , can you please stop trying to confuse me?, YOU AND ME WERE TALKING ABOUT 4153,
You did, im afraid, in reply 113i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong,
Yeh yeh, well done bro
now if 4153 menas by Ayaat the verses of the Quran then the second part of the verse must reflect that and should refer to the Ayaat ?Inaha? not to the Quran ?Inahu?
Nonsense. 41/53 begins by saying 'sanoorhim ayaatina FIL AFAAQ wa fil ANFUSIHIM'. If Allah shows AYAAT to you in these 2 places, how can they be ayaat of al-quraan?
hehe, the verse says ?Ayatina? Ii,e the Iyaat of Allah, if it was the Ayyat of the Quran it has to be Ayatihu, you lack arabic severely bro
How maniulative you are Mquran?, you look professional to me, I didn?t say these two words only I said the word is common Arabic word, now read it again and I?m sure withouot being manipulative you will know that the common was describing the word not the arabic, haha nice try though but very shifty
AB, I couldn't care less for you, your hyberboles or your common arabic nonsense. I'm only responding to you because i'm interested to know why my statement is nonsense. Your only response to that was the 'different planet' comment. That's the limit of your 'professional debator' persona.
Haha mate, again you must be from another planet
a Miracle is a miracle
Uncommon events or supernatural events
I see. So if ayaat are contained in al-quraan and it says things like 'be good to your parents', the next time I'm good to my mum and dad, that's a supernatural event? Shall we call some paranormal investigation team?
I don?t know what you are talking about, that is why I don?t like discussing anything with ya, you just waste my time really, you sound from a different planet to me, and I mean the planet of non common sense which is your planet
The knowledge of the big bang, the embryo phases of creation knowledge, all these are miracles that the Quran talked about and was discovered in the Horizons i.e. in the future
Haha, so you can see the big bang in your AFAAQ and NAFS? That's some afaaq you have there, AB!
the Affaq means the future mister smart, not the horizon
good night as I don?t have more time to waste
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ABIt seems your english is another thing from another planet like your arabic exactly
Did you or did you not say i thought you mean 4152 is talking about the verses of the Quran (Ayaat) which is 100% wrong, in reply 113 above?
If you did, then it was you who introduced 41/52 into the discussion. Be honest enough to admit it, please.
Unfortunatly you live in the same planet that I live in and we will continue to live together on it regradless you like it or not, but I?m sure on the JD we may be worlds apart
You're sure that we may be worlds apart? Sure and may? Sorry, but in English, that's nonsense. If you're certain of something, that precludes probability
obviously you are not smart enough to realize that it was a typo, here is what I said again
Good, so it was your mistake. I don't like to assume anything, AB. I take Quranic discussion seriously.
see I was talking about 4153 from the start after in the second instance above it was a mistake, and that is the max you can do just looking for typos and making an issue of it
I really wasn't. I thought you were using 41/52 as a platform for understanding 41/53. I'm not interested in your petty and childish games, I'm afraid.
hehe, the verse says ?Ayatina? Ii,e the Iyaat of Allah, if it was the Ayyat of the Quran it has to be Ayatihu, you lack arabic severely bro
I see. So the ayaat of al-quraan are NOT the ayaat of Allah? Whose ayaat are they then? As for 'lacking Arabic severely' if being like yourself means having beliefs like 'parts of al-quraan are history', then I think you have things backward. You can keep your Arabist tendencies. I don't need your racism to understand al-quraan.
I don?t know what you are talking about, that is why I don?t like discussing anything with ya, you just waste my time really, you sound from a different planet to me, and I mean the planet of non common sense which is your planet
Well if you don't like to explain yourself, don't. Save us all a lot of time. I actually thought you had something substantial to say but guess nothing's changed.
the Affaq means the future mister smart, not the horizon
LOL, nice one. Can you prove this please. The word 'ufk' is used in 53/7 to mean horizon. Please show me where it means 'future'. Or are you seeing big bangs in your soul now ?
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I don't speak read or understand Arabic but I can read the and understand the English translations and look into word for word translations to better understand the message of Allah. Qur'an fundamental part which is the basis of our faith is very clear and simple to understand. The problem here is people are trying to change that simple fundamental verses by giving their own interpreation of allegorical verses. The Qur'an clearly tell us that this message was send as a revelation to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and there are plenty of clear verses in Qur'an to verify. The other claim that Qur'an is centuries old is again very wrong concept getting promoted. Qur'an does say that Allah send all the Prophets with same message does not mean that they come up with the Qur'an. The simple message which all the Prophets brought was to Follow and Worship One God this was the main message which is consistant. The previous messages are replaced by Qur'an but the message is the same which was given to Prophet Abraham.
This is my understanding and I know its going to make certain people very angry.
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This is my understanding and I know its going to make certain people very angry
Why would your understanding make anyone angry? I respect your right to your understanding.
Qur'an fundamental part which is the basis of our faith is very clear and simple to understand. The problem here is people are trying to change that simple fundamental verses by giving their own interpreation of allegorical verses. The Qur'an clearly tell us that this message was send as a revelation to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and there are plenty of clear verses in Qur'an to verify. The other claim that Qur'an is centuries old is again very wrong concept getting promoted. Qur'an does say that Allah send all the Prophets with same message does not mean that they come up with the Qur'an. The simple message which all the Prophets brought was to Follow and Worship One God this was the main message which is consistant. The previous messages are replaced by Qur'an but the message is the same which was given to Prophet Abraham.
I'm sorry KGB, but I can't agree as there is no proof for
- al-quraan being descended for the first time to a man named muhammad.
- that al-quraan makes a difference betweeen 'literal' and 'allegorical' verses.
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KGB The prove is in Qur'an. The simple clear message can't be mataphor. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) can't be a metaphor. The clear verses which says that Qur'an is Allah revelations to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) can't be a metaphor.
I see how you're looking at things. My understanding was like yours till I read verses like 3/84 which speaks of 'revelation' (inzaal) as something which is 'alaina' (on us). Further, 6/114 speaks of al-kitaab mufassal (al-quraan itself) as being inzaal 'ilaikum' (to you in plural). Revelation isn't about the first time al-quraan came down to whatever his name was. It's about us achieving pointers from Allah NOW. See 42/51 for evidence of this.
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MQuran
384 the message is revealed to us through Prophet Muhammad (SAW) just like the message was revealed to previous nations through their Prophets Abraham, Ishmael, Musa, Isa.
6114 you is not us. That "you" is referenced to Prophet Muhammd. Read 6112 -6113 - 6114 together which makes it clear.
4251 are you getting direction revelations from Allah?
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KGB384 the message is revealed to us through Prophet Muhammad (SAW) just like the message was revealed to previous nations through their Prophets Abraham, Ishmael, Musa, Isa.
If that were the case, why are we told to say 'on us' (alaina) when it wasn't on us? Surely we're not told to lie by Allah?
6114 you is not us. That "you" is referenced to Prophet Muhammd. Read 6112 -6113 - 6114 together which makes it clear.
If that were the case, it would be 'ka' which is in singular and not 'kum' which is in plural.
4251 are you getting direction revelations from Allah?
That's within the bounds of my personal experience. What we need to look at here is the linguistics of it. Was Allah addressing messengers here? If so, why - since he did use 'ya ayuhan nabi' like in 66/1- did He not say so here? 42/51 is clarifying modes of revelation and no human being is excluded from it.
As ever, I respect your disagreement. Thanks for a meaningful discussion.
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MQuran
I will leave the Arabic grammer part for the people who had the knowledge of language. I don't know much Arabic and am certainly not a person to explain the grammer.
6111 Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, they are not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah's plan. But most of them ignore (the truth).
6112 Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it so leave them and their inventions alone.
6113 To such (deceit) let the hearts of those incline, who have no faith in the hereafter let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may.
6114 Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
The reference clearly here is Prophet Muhammad (SAW) which is very clear to me after reading this message. You is clear reference to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) not us.
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WOW you two are ruthless!
LOLKGB gazak Allah kheir for posting up 384
My humble opinion is that the 'us' referred to in that aya means all mankind... for the believers this message (the quran) is news of glad tidings and for non-believers it is a warning. That still doesn't prove that the Prophet Mohamed was not the deliverer or MESSENGER of that message.
This whole 'quran is all one big allegory' is very confusing and has way too many holes in it. Quran is made very CLEAR and understandable to all mankind. But the allegory business is making each aya extremely confusing and contradictory. Much like the sunni way of complicating God's Word so much that you HAVE to go to an Imam or Sheikh to get a fatwa because the religion is no longer accessible to anyone else. And that's the beauty of quran. As KGB stated, we can read any translated quran and with a good arabic dictionary and some igtihad all is made clear.
MQ, there are instances of God showing mistakes of the Prophet Mohamed (a human who errs and repents as we all do) 1774-75 is a good example to start off with. Again, to recap if the code-name "Mohamed" was just a set of characteristics we need to work for in order to reach a level with God or an experience, then there would be no room for depicting mistakes and errors. If I want to tell you the characteristics and qualities of a good student, I won't all of a sudden interject with mistakes and mishaps. If however, Mohamed is a real person, it makes complete sense to keep some mistakes as lessons and as proof that he was only human and God forgives. And lets not rain on Prophet Mohamed's parade too much... Prophet Moses killed someone and repented! He walked with Al-Khidr and argued with him all along not showing patience! I don't see any of these instances as metaphors for an archetypal personality that we must access in order to reach a higher realm and possibly gain status of prophethood...
But as you stated in a previous post MQ, we can certainly agree to disagree. There is no room for fighting, as these are all our humble opinions. Can anyone speak out of 100% certainty of what happened over 1500 years ago?? Or what will be our fate in our future eternal lives? There are however beginning points we all need to agree upon. As an arabic speaker I can tell you AYA definitely is Miracle every single time it is mentioned. The verses of the quran are Miracles that none can immitate! That is why we call ayat el quran verses but the true meaning is miracles. By the way this is not an Arabist thing. It is easier for arabic-speaking people to access meanings of words, that doesn't mean they are the ONLY ones who can.
PEACE
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OOHH Just thought of a great example.
Surat el Shuaraa (The Poets) repeats over and over how each featured prophet came to the people as a plain warner. And each people said how can we follow INSAN (man) like us! He eats like us and drinks like us, he can't be a messenger from God. Unless there is an allegorical meaning for insan, you're out of steam on this allegorical archetype business. I Invite you to read the sura and keep an open mind without trying to find a way to defend your point.
PEACE SALAM
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Peace all. Aside from historical/factual accuracy,does it really practically matter if we take the prophets as metaphors,'archetypes',or as real messengers?...The point is regardless of what they are/were,....follow them in practical righteous behaviour...Or am i missing something?
Peace all. -
Peace KGB. Well if people follow the different prophets' examples' of behaviour, then they do believe in them,dont they?...
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Peace Enquirer
Qur'an is the last message of Allah and it says no religion other than Islam is acceptable to Allah. We can follow Qur'an what Prophet Muhammad (SAW0 did during his life to achieve salvation.
What would be the fate of those who don't follow Islam? Don't know.
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Well Mquran
you are still going hard on that shit and want to watse my time further, man, i went to bed early because of your uselss discussion and just waked up feeling good, therefore bloody oath no way i will respond to your last comment, i have no time to watse bro, sorry
take care