Allah=reality?
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Peace arnoldyasin. I can see this is going to get hevy and detailed now.... elektro )
Isnt everthing immortal and eternal anyway? Why the need for a 'first cause' if we already always existed? Are we the creators of our children? Or do our children manifest/ emminate from us,as a result of us making the necessary conditions for their appearance to us?
Did not our children already exist in another dimension,before they became manifest in this world to us?
Peace all. -
Peace,
We have never "always" existed. We are a result of progress that started in a beginning. So i don't know where this idea comes from, that we always existed. We in our form, our seperate forms, have only been existence since we live. This creation is formed out of God, so the energy that forms us is eternal, but we that are formed have not been eternal, the way the energy forms us and our conciousness hasn't always been there. the building material was always there, but an architect formed us out of this material, out of Himself. So this vision of yours doesn't coincide with science and Quran.
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Peace Arnoldyasin. What is verse 7172 referring to my friend?... And,are we eternal after we are created?... Are you saying god created us out of his own personal self,or out of some eternal energy,or both?
peace all. ps;sorry for soo many questions...I had a feeling you would post in this thread...Is your favourite topic theology? ) -
Peace,
I study Theology at the Amsterdam University...........It is my life............
Literal And when/if your Lord took/received from Adam's sons and daughters from their backs their descendants, and He made them witness/testify on themselves. "Am I not your Lord (E)?" They said "Yes/certainly, We witnessed/testified." That You say (on) the Resurrection Day "That We were about this ignoring/disregarding ."
QXP Your Lord brought forth generations from the Children of Adam, and they have been the living testimony that He creates and provides them with sustenance. "Am I not your Sustainer?" They practically admit, "Yes, verily. We testify." Thus you cannot say on the Resurrection Day, "We were not aware of this."
Maulana Ali And when thy Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their loins, their descendants, and made them bear witness about themselves Am I not your Lord? They said Yes; we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of Resurrection We were unaware of this,
Free Minds And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
This verse is reffering to , my friend, that the decendants of the first peoples always were warned by God through revelations. So they couldn't say they were not warned on the day of Confrontation. So i don't really see what you imply by this..... As it clearly refers to the later people on earth got revelations and clear clues they God is one and the only Sustainer.
God created us out of His energy, but i don't like calling it energy, as God is ungraspable and undescrible. So the 'material' used is eternal, but not the construction made out of the 'material'. We are made out of Him, so we are always connected with Him. He is the All. But has it's own seperate understanding/conciousness. He decides what to share and what not. And through the design in the creation it is clearly shown that we had no participance in this design, we and the rest of the creation are desinged which refer to an intelligence designing us. So God is reality, but also beyond that. And yes, by my best understanding, we are allowed to remain. But He is the only real eternity, and we are only allowed to be. Why is still a mystery, as God is beyond need or wantings, out of love is the only answer i believe.
2888 And do not call besides God any god, there is no god but He. Everything will fade away except His presence. To Him is the judgment, and to Him you will be returned.
So this is the only thing science, logic, philosophy and the Quran accepts as an answer.
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Peace KGB. I am asking about allah talking to mankind (adams descendents.) before mankind (adams descendents.) had been born..This implies man existed before being manifest in our 'earthly' realm/perception. This is the way that i have heard this verse translated in some quarters...
peace all. ps;thanks arnoldyasin for posting the translations of the verse. ) I appreciate you may have a different understanding on this verse... -
Peace all. What has always been,and always will be?.......Reality?
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He is the Alpha and the Omega...
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Salaams enquirer, all,
I believe there is a bit of a confusion here .
The only people who convenented where the israelites and that is who the particular verse is reffereing to - i believe.
look at all the ayah's preceding 7172 - Moses and his people? and it can't be us as i don't remember it taking place!
Wa-ith akhathna meethaqabanee isra-eela la taAAbudoona illa Allahawabialwalidayni ihsanan watheealqurba waalyatama waalmasakeeniwaqooloo lilnnasi husnan waaqeemoo alssalatawaatoo alzzakata thumma tawallaytum illaqaleelan minkum waantum muAAridoona
And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect) Worship none but Allah; treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now).
Wa-ith akhathna meethaqakumwarafaAAna fawqakumu alttoora khuthooma ataynakum biquwwatin waothkurooma feehi laAAallakum tattaqoona
And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (The towering height) of Mount (Sinai) (Saying) "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein Perchance ye may fear Allah."
Wa-ith akhatha rabbuka minbanee adama min thuhoorihim thurriyyatahumwaashhadahum AAala anfusihim alastu birabbikum qaloobala shahidna an taqooloo yawma alqiyamatiinna kunna AAan hatha ghafileena
When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying) "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment "Of this we were never mindful"
God Bless All.
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Peace simple. ok,thats fine if you understand it that way....Im not sure that others agree with that verse only applying to moses and his people though?....Any other points you have regarding the allah=reality theory? Thanks in advance...
Peace all. -
Alpha and Omega mean the First and the Last..........
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Does God=Reality.
We ought to look at the attributes given, does reality fulfil the attributes-qualities.
Is reality always,
Kind, polite, helpful, source of peace- security - safety e.t.c
Truthfully I must say
Allah = Kind plus polite plus truth plus???????all the attributes.
If you can imagine ? which I doubt if anybody can, all these combined into one unit/cup or what ever you will ultimately see/know who/what Allah is ? I believe.
So I believe we can?t grasp the combination of all the attributes and so Allah as well.
Thanks.
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Peace Simple. I like your idea of god... bravo
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These all combined, and you end up with the All............
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peace,
if allah is the first and the last, then arn't we part of fate?
in my sunni days, i used to believe that everything is part of fate except death, marriage, food, birth and (i forgot the other one) -[
what is the quran alone understanding?
peace, rifat
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Peace,
God is the First and the Last and everything in between, God is the All, wherever you look, He is there...
We have a freewill. Everything you do is by your own choice. But people always point to God, that He knows everything and then say, everything is already decided. I ask you rifat;"Even though God knows everything, does that still take away your feeling of freechoice? Do you have the feeling your freewill is gone?" Everything has already its place in the story, death, marriage and so on.........
Because i don't believe we must take in God's knowledge with this. Even though God knows the outcome of our stories, does that influence our experience or choice making? No, i don't believe so. We are still the ones who are reading the book. We must stop pointing at the writer and saying He locked us up in the story.
If i build a house, and i let you walk in by yourself. Do you complain to me, that i already knew which room you were gonna check? That i determined your choices in looking at the house? No. You knew i determined the rooms, did my knowledge of the look of the rooms, made you avoid looking at the rooms? No. So that something is already 'fixed' still doesn't take away, that you want to check the rooms. You want to see for yourself how it looks. This is the exact same thing with life. God build it, but we are still checking all the rooms one by one. Seeing how they look........
Peace
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peace,
guess what, i have found my answers. bravo bravo ...
it is in the quran...
you have to realize the fact WHY we ask questions and... what is the purpose of asking questions... if you do not approach this method then you will never find your answers...
"god knows what you reveal and what you conceal"
"do they not reflect"
peace, rifat