Just another forum <---say it isn't so!!
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Lote-TreeI really do miss that fun part and the excitement part.
Then you should go to Disneyland or Alton Towers. This is a forum where people discuss their ETERNAL FATE. Does that sound like idle banter to you?
Many people did come here to join in this fun and excitement and I enjoyed welcoming new people here on this forum. I felt that something important was happening here that young people are thinking for themselves and that forum is indeed making people thinking for themselves. It was indeed making people Free Minds. It was indeed "unplugging" people from mental slavery (to use a Matrix example).
Thinking for themselves is great. Sadly, they're also being taken for a ride by people who PRETEND to question certain things but will readily skirt the issue if ever questioned.
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Most people on this forum i feel,post in a reasonably decent manner...There is a small minority who use profanity,insults,accusations and a dogmatic, 'we are believers,you are not' attitude...
This is your own insecurity talking. Even when I use the word 'rejector' , I qualify it with 'of the divinity of al-quraan'. Are you or are you not such a person? Don't let your own insecurities fool you into thinking i've condemned you to hell.
In the real world i can meet these kind of people every day...My aim is not too hate these people,as that can make me unjust to them.....However in the real world there are certain civil standards required of peoples behaviour which should be 'loosely' adhered too...I dont think we need quranic justifications for this....Its pretty obvious...
No, your aim is to waste their time. To accuse their religious beliefs of falsehood AND NEVER vindicating your claims.
I feel this forum is a great place to post ideas on the good and the bad of religion... And good feedback can be gained on these issues,even if the feedback is constructively critical...I feel the atmosphere on the forum recently has deterioted to the extent that several posters seem reluctant to post,or enter discussions....I feel this is mainly due to the behaviour of a few KNOWN (MQURAN and AB,and a few others.) individuals who insult,use profanity and are too emotional/dogmatic in their SUBJECTIVE views...The strange thing is the two main guys i am referring too actually have SOME decent ideas and knowledge...They just lack the understanding of how to dicuss respectfully...
Ok, why don't YOU teach me how to be respectful? I will follow exactly what you say. Lets then debate. We'll then see how sincere you are.
fyi its RUDE to ask people to answer then completely blank them or does your 'ethos' say its ok ?
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten arent we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
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This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Thank you JM, excellent questions. I would advise everyone reading the thread and posting to please carefully think before doing so. The good response is not equal to the bad response.
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Peace,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn\'t allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief.
That is a good and correct observation which will be rectified.
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Peace,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn\'t allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief.
That is a good and correct observation which will be rectified.
IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.Peace
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten aren?t we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
man, this is funny, i hope FM has not really became kindergarten
please call the baby sitter, come on this is one hell of a funny comment O0 O0 yuck
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I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten aren?t we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
man, this is funny, i hope FM has not really became kindergarten
please call the baby sitter, come on this is one hell of a funny comment O0 O0 yuck
AhmedBahgat,
Comments like the above are in no way constructive. They are in fact suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise, there is no other way to describe it.
And before making other similar comments regarding this post, I would like you to take a moment to think of your attitude. I doubt that you are acting like this in real life because it would bring you much trouble, surely it is much safer behind a computer screen.
Anyway, I know I could win if I bet a million $ on your response to this post... Please show me that I am wrong...
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IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.Agreed. I would even recommend preventing these people from posting comments to distract people who advocate al-quraan.
The sad thing about this all is, I have actually learnt a lot from books such as
- A Perfect Quran? by 'brother mark'
- What the Koran really Says by 'ibn warraq'
Which helps in order to understand the mechanism of Quran-rejection, the philosophical underpinnings etc. I'd love to have a free discussion with one who rejects the divinity of al-quraan but sadly, they're not for fair-play. They are here to propagate and why they be given that right in a Quranic forum?
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- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
Not at all. Hostility should be for 'mufsid fil ardh'/people who cause discord in the land. Such people aren't doing harm by being hostile to al-quraan per se but by stopping the dialectic process. It's actually constructive to be sceptical, but constructively sceptical. We had critics here who claim al-quraan enforces BRIGANDAGE and booty (and then claimed they studied al-quraan intensely).
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
No, indeed not but I understand AB's frustrations. AB's such a guy who's forthright , whatever his viewpoint is. I really respect him for that. For a guy who's comes out with it all the time, speaking to people who duck and dodge can be frustrating. Whatever the case AB, better watch the language because some people will use any excuse to see you out and we can't have that. Too few people supporting the Book as it is.
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EnquirerPeace AB and Mquran...IM not attacking yor off-line characters....I dont know you guys well enough...But i will say its my OPINION that you two have created a bad atmosphere on the forum...I have given proofs of your infractions in bad language and general hostility, to the moderators....I also think that these are not baselees 'accusations' against you and mquran....Many people can see the on-line attitude of you two....Im not alone in questioning you approaches...
Enquirer, let me remind you of your most beautiful introductory post to me. It's so beautiful that Kahlil Gibran himself would be moved to tears
Peace mquran. Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society? Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes? Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?
How arrogantly you came in. And this, my good man, was my response
Peace and blessings upon you.
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Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society?Yes i do.
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Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes?Yes I do.
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Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?Not there.
Question does this make al-quraan deficient or is your categorisation system itself deficient. If you feel al-quraan is deficient, why don't you produce a coherent treatise like it?
You see, Enquirer. I answer questions directly as I'm not afraid to. And was I IN ANY WAY impolite? Now Look at your response to this
Peace mquran. If you say you put the quran before your own eyes/minds verification process,then how do you know that your mind is correct in verifying that the quran is correct? Would you allow whippings,right hand posession and amputations in todays western societies? Yes,i feel quran is relatively deficient, in that it does not explain or answer every question in life.(but then why should a mans words do all that anyway?) I feel it can be a useful book,but not the permanent,perfect,complete constitution for all times. You claim that the quran is a coherent treatise? Well not for many people...,a lot of 'quran only' posters have not even come to a uniform agreement on what salat is...,never mind how to treat the quran as a 'coherent treatise'.
Ok,here is my small,incomplete,subjective,fallible,deficient treatise for success;
'Keep your minds open,and keep doing good deeds.'...
Thats as coherent as any verse of the quran is...So you can stop these LIES , sir. I'd be more than happy to play nice with you as soon as YOU PLAY NICE first. Don't pretend to be some holy saint when you're really here to cause fasad.
I hope Layth really does enforce discipline on you and your associates who keep trying it on.
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MQuran relax. Don't you know that they are doing this to have fun? I really don't take them very seriously and most of the time ignore them because they will not understand a single word of Allah until they have faith that this whole message is from Allah the Creator of this Universe and our Lord.
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Peace,
IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.This has now been done...
Thanks !
I think that, when someone does not want a thread to be polluted by non quranic opinions, he should write something like this "(Responses based on the quran are expected)".
I did it there
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5680.0Then, if someone posts an opinion that is not based on the quran, the initiator of the thread may ask the moderator to delete this post (for being out of topic).
Peace
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Off the topic. Ahmed Bahgat we are not allowed to be funny. Brother be serious. ;D
IHMO, to be funny may not be our first concern on this forum.
In the contrary, we shall strive to be serious, patient, and humble. -
this is what the problem is The people who do not believe every word of the Quran to be divine are labelled the "Quran rejecters" and "enemies of the Quran" and "kafirs." And these people are worse than the "traditional muslims" because they at least believe the Quran to be from God.
I don't understand why questioning the Quran's divinity is such a big crime. The only thing that results from questions is answers. If people do believe that the Quran isn't from God, and you do, then show them.
What reveals a person's identity is not what questions they ask, but how they ask them, and more importantly, whether they want the question to be answered, and even more importantly, whether they accept the answer or not if the answer is clear and is proven.Questioning is not a crime.
There are too many people on this forum who believe that they KNOW the truth. And because of some reason, their understanding of the Quran has to be the best understanding. And because their understanding is the best understanding, and it dictates that the Quran is from God, then it has to be from God.
We are not discussing, most of the time, proven facts. We are discussing beliefs. We are discussing interpretations of a book. There should be no one on this forum who believes they know without a shadow of a doubt that their interpretation is the best one. Unfortunately, there are. And those people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.
The only way we can have constructive discussions on this forum is if people actually want to learn. If everyone has made up their mind, then there is no point. And those of you who are enlightened and are here only to preach your views without the intention of gaining anything, you shouldn't be here. -
Salaam PM
And if this is how it is gonna be, I am considering walking away too.
That would be sad. I hope you are not - you are too good a muslim and this forum needs people like you.
Hello Lottree
I hope you will not leave. Although when I first entered this forum it was to oppose you re- quran being anti-democratic debate and we may have exchanged some unpleasentries (& if I did then apologies). However I have come to enjoy your antics(regardless of how much I might disagree with you), I consider you to be, in our outlook & actions, to be far better muslim then many who claim to follow the Quran. It will be sad if people like you leave.
Surely our belief in Quran is not that weak that we cannot accept criticism or critical analysis from those who are not convinced by it.
Is the intro in the forum not welcome peole of all beliefs?Open minded debate is healthy for all.
Peace and Good will to all sun
regards
