Just another forum <---say it isn't so!!
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EnquirerPeace AB and Mquran...IM not attacking yor off-line characters....I dont know you guys well enough...But i will say its my OPINION that you two have created a bad atmosphere on the forum...I have given proofs of your infractions in bad language and general hostility, to the moderators....I also think that these are not baselees 'accusations' against you and mquran....Many people can see the on-line attitude of you two....Im not alone in questioning you approaches...
Enquirer, let me remind you of your most beautiful introductory post to me. It's so beautiful that Kahlil Gibran himself would be moved to tears
Peace mquran. Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society? Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes? Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?
How arrogantly you came in. And this, my good man, was my response
Peace and blessings upon you.
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Do you think all of the quran is literally relevent to todays society?Yes i do.
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Do you take the quran as superior to what you can see/verify with your own mind/eyes?Yes I do.
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Where is bird flu,aids,nuclear weapons,global warming,chemistry,medical breakthroughs,cancer,chemical warfare,social statistics,social research,psychological research,esp,detailed dream analysis,quantum physics,gulf wars,tsunamis,pregnancy tests,pregnancy scans, etc.. directly in the quran?Not there.
Question does this make al-quraan deficient or is your categorisation system itself deficient. If you feel al-quraan is deficient, why don't you produce a coherent treatise like it?
You see, Enquirer. I answer questions directly as I'm not afraid to. And was I IN ANY WAY impolite? Now Look at your response to this
Peace mquran. If you say you put the quran before your own eyes/minds verification process,then how do you know that your mind is correct in verifying that the quran is correct? Would you allow whippings,right hand posession and amputations in todays western societies? Yes,i feel quran is relatively deficient, in that it does not explain or answer every question in life.(but then why should a mans words do all that anyway?) I feel it can be a useful book,but not the permanent,perfect,complete constitution for all times. You claim that the quran is a coherent treatise? Well not for many people...,a lot of 'quran only' posters have not even come to a uniform agreement on what salat is...,never mind how to treat the quran as a 'coherent treatise'.
Ok,here is my small,incomplete,subjective,fallible,deficient treatise for success;
'Keep your minds open,and keep doing good deeds.'...
Thats as coherent as any verse of the quran is...So you can stop these LIES , sir. I'd be more than happy to play nice with you as soon as YOU PLAY NICE first. Don't pretend to be some holy saint when you're really here to cause fasad.
I hope Layth really does enforce discipline on you and your associates who keep trying it on.
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MQuran relax. Don't you know that they are doing this to have fun? I really don't take them very seriously and most of the time ignore them because they will not understand a single word of Allah until they have faith that this whole message is from Allah the Creator of this Universe and our Lord.
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Peace,
IMHO, a specific room should be created in the forum to discuss with the people who reject the quran.
And these people should not participate in quran-based discussions.This has now been done...
Thanks !
I think that, when someone does not want a thread to be polluted by non quranic opinions, he should write something like this "(Responses based on the quran are expected)".
I did it there
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5680.0Then, if someone posts an opinion that is not based on the quran, the initiator of the thread may ask the moderator to delete this post (for being out of topic).
Peace
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Off the topic. Ahmed Bahgat we are not allowed to be funny. Brother be serious. ;D
IHMO, to be funny may not be our first concern on this forum.
In the contrary, we shall strive to be serious, patient, and humble. -
this is what the problem is The people who do not believe every word of the Quran to be divine are labelled the "Quran rejecters" and "enemies of the Quran" and "kafirs." And these people are worse than the "traditional muslims" because they at least believe the Quran to be from God.
I don't understand why questioning the Quran's divinity is such a big crime. The only thing that results from questions is answers. If people do believe that the Quran isn't from God, and you do, then show them.
What reveals a person's identity is not what questions they ask, but how they ask them, and more importantly, whether they want the question to be answered, and even more importantly, whether they accept the answer or not if the answer is clear and is proven.Questioning is not a crime.
There are too many people on this forum who believe that they KNOW the truth. And because of some reason, their understanding of the Quran has to be the best understanding. And because their understanding is the best understanding, and it dictates that the Quran is from God, then it has to be from God.
We are not discussing, most of the time, proven facts. We are discussing beliefs. We are discussing interpretations of a book. There should be no one on this forum who believes they know without a shadow of a doubt that their interpretation is the best one. Unfortunately, there are. And those people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.
The only way we can have constructive discussions on this forum is if people actually want to learn. If everyone has made up their mind, then there is no point. And those of you who are enlightened and are here only to preach your views without the intention of gaining anything, you shouldn't be here. -
Salaam PM
And if this is how it is gonna be, I am considering walking away too.
That would be sad. I hope you are not - you are too good a muslim and this forum needs people like you.
Hello Lottree
I hope you will not leave. Although when I first entered this forum it was to oppose you re- quran being anti-democratic debate and we may have exchanged some unpleasentries (& if I did then apologies). However I have come to enjoy your antics(regardless of how much I might disagree with you), I consider you to be, in our outlook & actions, to be far better muslim then many who claim to follow the Quran. It will be sad if people like you leave.
Surely our belief in Quran is not that weak that we cannot accept criticism or critical analysis from those who are not convinced by it.
Is the intro in the forum not welcome peole of all beliefs?Open minded debate is healthy for all.
Peace and Good will to all sun
regards -
salaam
in our outlook & actions
oops! should have been your
regards -
I also accuse you of hostility against the Quran on a Quran based forum, you have to know bro, this place is not really for you unless you listen and shut your mouth, now would shut your mouth is a bad language?, oh yeh we are in kindergarten arent we?, please call the baby sitter to comfort you
This reply raises in mind 2 questions (for the moderation team)
- Should hostility against the quran by someone justify hostility against him ?
- Are comments like " please call the baby sitter to comfort you" to be welcomed ?
Peace
man, this is funny, i hope FM has not really became kindergarten
please call the baby sitter, come on this is one hell of a funny comment O0 O0 yuck
AhmedBahgat,
Comments like the above are in no way constructive. They are in fact suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise, there is no other way to describe it.
And before making other similar comments regarding this post, I would like you to take a moment to think of your attitude. I doubt that you are acting like this in real life because it would bring you much trouble, surely it is much safer behind a computer screen.
Anyway, I know I could win if I bet a million $ on your response to this post... Please show me that I am wrong...
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i could not really understand your message therefore it will be ignored
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Peace brother Ahmed,
Please avoid responding to messages you choose to ignore. Thanks!
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Peace brother Ahmed,
Please avoid responding to messages you choose to ignore. Thanks!
Thank you sister
i was just trying to tell him that I read it and it was utterly ridiculous that's all
cheers
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Sister nadia
Please be aware that this guy whatever his name is has an addiction to pick on my posts since I joined, i.e. from day 1, therefore i have no respec to that person and it will be a better advice that you tell him not to direct any comment to me because if people will mock me I will mock them back and even harder
cheers
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I'm very sorry to see that Peacefulmuslim left the forum. She contributed constructivly to the board and its for sure a big loss that she left.
I am also very sorry and angry to see that now it became normal to delete and edit posts, which is nothing else than censorship! So now we have moderated and censored threads - wonderful! whats next?
This is not the fm I used to know.Just be careful that fm wont become just as any other (sunni) forum where discussions have to go into one direction ... otherwise your out.
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Also i'm checking out. Not forever, but for now. In time i'll see what happens to the behaviour on this forum. To bad most people don't understand this site is one of the places that carries the load of spreading the Quran's message. That load is heavy, the heaviest in the world. We talk about changing the world. But how can we if we only pick on each other. Then our posts have no more value then a xbox forum. People don't understand we are the representatives of the Quran. People look at us, to see what the message is. That is the heaviest responsiblitiy there is............ So people act up to it to the responsibility, as we should play a major part in the future.
Peace all
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Also i'm checking out. Not forever, but for now. In time i'll see what happens to the behaviour on this forum. To bad most people don't understand this site is one of the places that carries the load of spreading the Quran's message. That load is heavy, the heaviest in the world. We talk about changing the world. But how can we if we only pick on each other. Then our posts have no more value then a xbox forum. People don't understand we are the representatives of the Quran. People look at us, to see what the message is. That is the heaviest responsiblitiy there is............ So people act up to it to the responsibility, as we should play a major part in the future.
Peace all
I guess judging the message by the people is the mistake that most people fall into,m it is the same as judging that the Quran encourgaes violence because of the sunni terrorists
i guess regardless what Islamic sect you belong to the enemy will always pick on you to convey a misleading message that here is Islam
on the other hand doing as such is very flawed because what is the assurance that those people are really following the right message? hence they judge the mesaeg instead of the flawed humans
cheers
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Peace,
I am also very sorry and angry to see that now it became normal to delete and edit posts, which is nothing else than censorship! So now we have moderated and censored threads - wonderful! whats next?
This is not the fm I used to know.I hope everyone can see what difficult situation this is. People complain about language and personal remarks on threads, they ask that it is removed and/or edited and the person warned. When it is removed and/or edited and the person warned (sometimes even this doesn't solve the problem because then some would like the other one warned publically and themselves saved the embarrasment, at times both want a public free-for-all). If one were to leave the threads/forum alone, then the complaint is, the mods don't do anything. If one was to ban a whole lot of people then we would be silencing different points of views, killing diversity as it were. If one bans a single user, it's bias and injustice that they are banned. It's the devil and the deep blue sea really. This can all be avoided if we are more responsible with what we post, have thicker skin at times, think really hard before pressing that submit button and the grace and the strength to avoid responding to certain posts. We all have the option of saying Peace and meaning it too.
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AB, we claim to follow the Quran ,and one of the Quranic laws is that we talk in a nice manner. Plus, i also meant the way we critize people's thinking. Instead of constructive critizism, it is debunked with out any respect, mostly with arrogance and sarcasme, this is what i reffered to. If we only give our views, without any emotions, just give our Quranic view, then people can way down the views of people. Mostly now, people only see sarcasme and disrespect. This attitude covers the views given. We should give our opinion in a scientific way, with only proofs and no emotional language with it. Then you can have a constructive debat.
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Peace brothers and sisters,
Wow!
I didn't imagine this thread would turn out this way, but, at the same time, I'm glad it has. Everyone can now see for themselves, from their own posts, whether or not they are capable of introspection in a public forum. I am pleased that so many of you are.As Arnoldyasin stated, the responsibility we carry is enormous. Type "quran alone" in the search box at google and see who comes up. Surprise! This should be telling us something. I've found in my few years here that there are/were some truly brilliant minds participating in this forum. If that energy can just be channeled into remaining positive, into teaching and learning to and from each other, then the possibilities are endless. People, we are one step in the right direction, something that traditional Islam has not done in 1400 years! Can you not see the importance??
We are so close, yet so far away. Unfortunately, we are, individually, fallible and succeptible to being pulled into fruitless banter. This is inescapable from time to time. Everyone's done it. What is not inescapable is keeping each other in check. When someone steps out of line, how hard is it to say, "Hey man, what's with the sarcasm??" or "There's no need for insults." or something polite that doesn't escalate the discourse into the tasmanian devil.
What we don't need is a moderator/FCC police force watching every word and editing posts to suit those who are here to make nicey nicey friends. That's not the point. The point is people need to think before they type. They need to take a deep breath and let the emotions fade away. They need to keep in mind that words are energy, and negative words create negative energy. Isn't that what La Illaha Ill Allah is all about? What is believing in God if not acting in accordance with the divine ideal?
I'm truly happy that there is enough positivity left in this forum to make it worthwhile to stick around. This is me being selfish. Thank you all for the kind words. For those who are leaving, please come back soon. We have a lot of work to do and we need your help.
May peace be upon you,
Tay -
peace Tay,
unfortunately, some people don't want to think before they type. They don't want to control their emotions. That's why we have that new section "Quran Challenge."
It's going to be great to see that moderated debate (if it ever starts). One side is eventually going to "win." And nothing at all will be resolved or learned.