Does al quran promote a religion? Not to me.
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thenabi wrote
I'm not sure why you are telling me to read these. You give no reasons and I can only guess that you mean to say I am wrong based on the context of these ayatin.i want u to tie these with establishing resurrection as plainly as life and death...which u claim it does!
thenabi wrote
Ayat 10/100 extends back to a doubt in man discussed in earlier ayatin where men are given leave to be rejectors and those who will take hold of God's rope shall do so. This in no way disturbs my reasoning that you should heed God's advice and look for the signs all about you in order to grasp the theoretical constructs in the reading.the signs u are talking about are for those who wish to believe...they can see in those signs and marvel at the creator...yes..v can deduce a creator from this....as for those who disbelieve they will not benefit aught from these! but how do u use this ayah to scientifically establish "resurrection" as natural as life and death? do u observe it around u? i hope u understand what a scientifically accepted fact is like say the sun rises in the east!
thenabi wrote
Ayat 41/53 shows me that in order to competently grasp the theoretical constructs of the reading one should see and experience these contructs. I was once given great advice by another regarding my problem with being too theoretical. It was told "The eyes ponder and the air sweeps!".it is talking about the hour..refer 781-5...if u understand anything else then do elaborate! -)
thenabi wrote
Ayat 51/22 seems to be pretty clear about al/sama being that from which people derive rizqu/provision wamatoo'adoona/that you are promised. It is as observable as communication systems for our communities .do u get ur sustenance dropped from the skies? it means god supplies..i think...whereas what i am asking u is to establish "resurrection" as naturally as life and death...or establish it the way it is established that sun rises from the east...those who believe by the quran will believe by it... but until it remains unseen and incapable of being put into equations...it will be considered a supernatural event...as there are no laws which have been used to resurrect the dead!
and supernatural is not unreal...it is that which is not subjected to the laws which v observe around us...like v see people die...that is natural...but v do not see them resurrected from ashes or their graves! -)
thenabi wrote
Superman, but then again...are u talking given his existence or when he does not exist? if he does not exist he is non-existent, not supernatural!
if there is a planet krypton which has its own laws..then superman would not be supernatural...v know laws which apply within r atmospehere may suspend or alter as v move away from earth...so if supernatural is being unprovable by science or deducing, then given a planet krypton superman would not be supernatural, science will very easily get a measure of him in accordance with kryptonic laws!
thenabi wrote
Sometimes I do. There are people who see the light after being in the dark.what does that have to do with resurrection? i hope u understand u said it is as natural as life and death -)
thenabi wrote
When your flesh and bones rot you will be resurrected like the earth after its death, and that is easy to God.yes..that is easy to god...as easy as giving life and death...but i see people being born and people dying...i do not see people cremated or buried being resurrected! -)
could u demonstrate the resurrection of the dead earth and link it scientifically to human resurrection, so that i can tell people resurrection is as natural as life and death? -)
peace -)
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ayman wrote
Nature is reality so supernatural inherently means "not real".source?
as far as not being real is concerned, it is just that unreal! -)
supernatural means just that supernatural
dictionaries would define it as something not conforming to natural laws, beyond the understanding of universal laws, not explainable by laws and god is just that! -)
ofcourse, v are interested in words as they are understood, and not personal definitions! -)
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ahmedbahgat wrote
this is anothet clear cut example of some muslims wasting their time trying to figure out what Islam (with a capital I) means, they also waste their time trying to know if it is the name of the Deen or not, Ironically the Quran gave clear answers to those questions but they like to resport to some flawed dictionries made by some non arabs, very strange man, the ego of those people are way too highyes..that is amusing...but the most amusing part is they will make use of anything that contradicts the popular understanding..and whether this means referring to non-muslims or shias or sunnis or others...it does not matter to them! i have seen people who quote sunni hadith to prove a point...which i find amusing! if v are to base our understanding on quran, then why resort to selective usage of traditions to prove traditions are wrong, quran is sufficient light to seperate truth from falsehood! -)
ahmedbahgat wrote
the main point is, Deen does not mean system, Deen in Arabic means that you are in debt and you have to pay back, for example if I borrow money from a bank then I owe the bank a Deennow we are in debts to our creator and we have to pay back, and the way to pay back is detailed in Judaism Christianity and Islam thus all three are called Deen
the deen of god is the deen alhaqq! however, this deen is followed only when it is accepted and enacted, not is everybody by default in the deen of allah! v see in 383 that deen other than god's is possible, but fruitless, since everybody does obey the laws of god, willing or unwillingly! trees cannot start flying in the air, nor can humans become immortal, within the limits set by god, they do comply to it! -) also, 1102, talks about humans entering the deen of god, if they were never out of it, they would not enter it! -)
infact, 1096 says to those who do not believe that to them be their deen and to the believers be their deen..and since there is no other god whose universe they may live by...it would mean they would have their set of beliefs and applications...and the believers theirs! -)
ahmedbahgat wrote
don't waste your time bro with those who think they got it all yet their arguments are so weak and unfounded not to mention their ignorance with the Arabic languagelolz yeah! what i do not want to see are assumptions, addition to the quran, changing of the diacriticals, unfounded re-interpretation of words of quran, illogical cross-referencing, and even reinvention of english words! i had some time..so i thought maybe i will check here a final time! -)
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Peace,
No changing in God's law, this includes in His Deen and all creation.
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So keep yourself exclusively on the true way, the creational law of God according to which He created man with the quality of choosing right or wrong. There is no altering/changing of God's creation. This is the supreme law. But most men do not understand.
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Such was the law of God among those before you; and you will not find any change in the law of God.
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As did their arrogance in the land, and their plotting of evil. But their evil plots will turn back on the plotters themselves. So can they expect any thing but what befell the earlier people? You will not find any change in the law of God, nor will you find divine law mutable.
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This is the law of God, effective as before You will not find any change in the law of God.
Crossreference use of Tairn which you have ignored
7131 Fa-itha jaat-humu alhasanatuqaloo lana hathihi wa-in tusibhumsayyi-atun yattayyaroo bimoosa waman maAAahu alainnama ta-iruhum AAinda Allahi walakinnaaktharahum la yaAAlamoona .
131 So if the good/goodness came to them, they said "This (is) for us." And if a sin/crime hits/strikes them , they get (have) a bad omen with Moses and whom (is) with him. Is it not, but their bad omen (is) at God, and but most of them do not know.
2747 Qaloo ittayyarna bikawabiman maAAaka qala ta-irukum AAinda Allahibal antum qawmun tuftanoona .
47 They said "We had a bad omen with you (you are a bad omen to us), and with whom (is) with you." He said "Your omen (fate/future is) at God, but you are a nation being tested/misguided ."
3619 Qaloo ta-irukum maAAakum a-in thukkirtumbal antum qawmun musrifoona.
19 They said "Your omen (fate/future is) with you, (even if you) are, you were reminded, but you are a nation (of) wasters/extravagators ."
1713 Wakulla insanin alzamnahu ta-irahufee AAunuqihi wanukhriju lahu yawma alqiyamati kitabanyalqahu manshooran .
13 And every human/mankind We obliged/compelled him his action/anger in his neck (made himresponsible), and We bring out/make emerge for him (on) the Resurrection Day a Book/judgment he finds it spread/publicized .
Dr.Shabbir
5110 When Allah will say, ?O Jesus, son of Mary! Recall My blessings upon you and your mother. I strengthened you with Sacred Revelation, enabled you to speak eloquently to the people while still in childhood, and also at a later age (345). I gave you revelation and wisdom including the Torah and the Gospel. Recall that you told them that you would raise them from dust up into the heights of glory by My leave (7176). You made people see the Truth otherwise given to blind following by My leave. You healed the wounds of inequity on people by My leave, and you gave a new meaning to life to those who were otherwise no better than dead by My leave (348, 3111, 6123). Recall, how I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with all evidence of the truth (4157). And those who were bent upon denying the truth said, ?This is nothing but clear deception.?Literal
and when you create as shaped/formed (of) their destiny with My permission/leave, so you blow in it, so it will be rising destiny/destination, with My permission/leave,The translation i used in my previous post is by Ahmed Ali.
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created their destiny's state on 1 hand so they "rose"....while on the other say that their destiny's state remained same before and after- When God said "O Jesus, I will take you to Myself and exalt you, and rid you of the infidels, and hold those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the Day of Resurrection. You have then to come back to Me when I will judge between you in what you were at variance."
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so this time around i myself pointed it out that this again is a coindidence, to save u the trouble! -)Which shows you only want to use it as slander. But you slander yourself with your behaviour. I follow my own findings, and i agree with Dr.Shabbir, Parwez and Ahmed Ali's understandings, which all coincide with mine. I have nothing to do with hadith people like the ahmedya's.
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i will wait for ur article to be posted! -) infact...i remember there was somebody who posted that djinns are fantasies...but i dont remember who it was...but when ur article is out, i will see them together! -) or maybe since ur djinns are hidden things/beings and his djinns are fantasies...i will simply search that article out and pit ur articles against each other...cool! -)since ur djinns are hidden things/beings
This is the clear arabic translation, so these are not mine. Also you shows again you don't care about the truth, it is a pity. Pit out your behaviour............
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that is another problem for ur assumption the verse clearly says it is a healing for those who believe...so spiritually it can heal only those who believe...but u are claiming that jesus healed those who disbelieved, and that contradicts the message of quran that none shall heed it except who wills to! however physical healing does not suffer from this flaw, jesus can physically heal a believer as well as a disbeliever, and it will not violate the message of quran!
God says that Jesus helped people that were otherwise spiritualy blind till death by His leave
by My leave
by My leave
by My leave............- Are you going to compel the people to believe except by God's dispensation? He puts doubt in (the minds of) those who do not think.
Only by God's leave, people can believe. So your argument falls, as God clearly says, that He allowed this to happen, by His leave.
And about Moses parting of the sea
250 And when/where We separated with you the sea , so We saved/rescued you, and We drowned/sunk Pharaoh's people and (while) you are looking/watching .
2077 And We had inspired/transmitted to Moses that walk/move with My worshippers/slaves so strike/move adry a path/way in the sea/ocean , do not fear over taking/pursuit , and nor you (should) fear."
2663 Then We revealed to Moses, ?Strike the sea with your staff. (Seek for them a dry path with confidence. Cross over the dried up Sea of Reeds 2077, 4424). The morning found the two parties apart like two hills with a basin in between.
I don't really see a miracle here. The Pharoah was taken by the floods which took them by surprise. And it says, strike a path through the dry part. Floods can overwhelm you and cannot be underestimated.
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i dont see if u overlooked that this is a "mithaal"..or u conveniently skipped it! in the mithaal, a person lights a fire, and when the fire starts illuminating the place, god takes away their light...leaving them in darkness...where they cannot see! in the mithaal...the application is literal...it cannot be that god took away the physical light and they could not see spiritually... i hope u study verses before posting them...else it will look like an attempt to mislead! -)
You ignore the last sentence
218. They are deaf, dumb and blind, and shall never return;These are metaphorical. Next time study them yourself more closely before answering.
I'm done here. I have proven my point. Next time when you imply that i ignore things on purpose, make sure you are not guilty of this yourself.
Peace
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Peace TG,
ayman wrote
Nature is reality so supernatural inherently means "not real".source?
Common sense. Look it up when you can -)
as far as not being real is concerned, it is just that unreal! -)
supernatural means just that supernatural
"supernatural means supernatural", what an intelligent observation -)
dictionaries would define it as something not conforming to natural laws, beyond the understanding of universal laws, not explainable by laws and god is just that! -)
What do you mean by "universal laws"? Do you mean human or The God's laws?
Everything is not explainable by human laws. Even the simplest thing. This is why what we know is very little compared to what we don't know. From the smallest insect to the biggest galaxy we only understand the very basic and even simple questions such as "how does a mosquito fly?" we can't fully answer. If we knew the "universal laws" about house flies then we can create our own flies. So according to your dictionary nature is "supernatural".
If you mean The God's law by "universal law" then everything conforms to The God's laws, unless of course you want to propose otherwise and reject The God.
So either way what you are saying is false.
ofcourse, v are interested in words as they are understood, and not personal definitions! -)
I am not interested in being clueless by saying "supernatural means just that supernatural" and demonstrating zero understanding and adding zero value.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace TG
i want u to tie these with establishing resurrection as plainly as life and death...which u claim it does!
It appears you are not familiar with associations. Do you understand the association?
An example comes to mind with the association of truth and falsehood as that which mimics , but is bound to fade away being of no use .
The reading has declared that mathal can only be understood by the learned . Not seeing the dead rise to life does not mean it is supernatural or unnatural.
but how do u use this ayah to scientifically establish "resurrection" as natural as life and death?
The advice is for the one who thinks and contemplates or ponders/meditates. It establishes nothing. It offers a means to understanding.
it is talking about the hour..refer 781-5...if u understand anything else then do elaborate! -)
The signs are always there, but those who ignore them pass them by. This ayat relates not only to the future, but to the here and now. Do not be of those who have to be shown the signs when it is too late.
do u get ur sustenance dropped from the skies?
Yes. Many things I eat depend on it for growth. I depend on it for growth too.
and supernatural is not unreal...it is that which is not subjected to the laws which v observe around us...
Such as...
are u talking given his existence or when he does not exist? if he does not exist he is non-existent, not supernatural!
You're talking too much and not paying attention. You could not see that my reply was nonsensical.
what does that have to do with resurrection?
Everything. Please define resurrection for me according to your knowledge of the term.
i hope u understand u said it is as natural as life and death -)
I understand what I wrote.
yes..that is easy to god...as easy as giving life and death...but i see people being born and people dying...i do not see people cremated or buried being resurrected! -)
Your eyes probably do not see the spectrum either. There are things which to our senses are of the unseen/al-gayb, but which the mind can see or comprehend.
I hope that you pay more attention than trying to out talk people. If we were face to face and this was a conversation between us, I'd say you need to learn to stop speaking and close your mouth for a bit and reflect on what people are saying to you instead of trying to run a race with your mouth.
Joe
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arnoldyasin wrote
Which shows you only want to use it as slander. But you slander yourself with your behaviour. I follow my own findings, and i agree
with Dr.Shabbir, Parwez and Ahmed Ali's understandings, which all coincide with mine. I have nothing to do with hadith people like
the ahmedya's.i honestly dont see what makes u say that...usomebody posted links to an ahmadiyya site and i only pointed out that the ahmadiyya understanding is not based on quran, i dont know why u took it personally....if u share the understanding of ahmed ali i dont see how that adds up to slander...the translation he has given for that verse very much seems to be a concise understanding of the ahmadiyya commentary....check out the ahmadiyya commentary for 349 (350 on the site) and u will see even
the words "new spirit" present there! and ahmed ali was born after mirza ahmed...so it maybe or it may not be that his work was
influenced by him...though there is a striking similarity!-)moreover...i do not see why u are offended..i only said u share common understanding...whereas u plainly called any
understanding other than metaphorical as distortion under evangelical influence! -S so why would u be the aggrieved party? if u
want ur views to be respected, is it not fair that u do not call others views as being under external influence? -)arnoldyasin wrote
This is the clear arabic translation, so these are not mine. Also you shows again you don't care about the truth, it is a pity. Pit out
your behaviour............for 1 i said "ur djinns" to differentiate another intepretation of djinns i read on this site, so atleast somebody is wrong! -)
second, it is clear arabic translation for u, not all! see...there again u call not agreeing with u as not caring about the truth...and then u will say i am slandering! -(( as for the rest of it...i will wait till ur articles is out..hopefully, i will be around! but do remember u have said unlike djinn which comes from a root meaning hidden, "insaan" is a title in itself...meaning it does not have a root like djinn! -)
arnoldyasin wrote
And about Moses parting of the sea250 And when/where We separated with you the sea , so We saved/rescued you, and We drowned/sunk Pharaoh's people and (while) you are looking/watching .
2077 And We had inspired/transmitted to Moses that walk/move with My worshippers/slaves so strike/move adry a path/way in the
sea/ocean , do not fear over taking/pursuit , and nor you (should) fear."2663 Then We revealed to Moses, Strike the sea with your staff. (Seek for them a dry path with confidence. Cross over the dried up
Sea of Reeds 2077, 4424). The morning found the two parties apart like two hills with a basin in between.I don't really see a miracle here. The Pharoah was taken by the floods which took them by surprise. And it says, strike a path through the dry part. Floods can overwhelm you and cannot be underestimated.
do u simply refer to translations or the text as well?...as v saw in the addition of "ur people's" in that verse...the translator there
added and u faithfully reproduced it! -) same is what the translator (unless it is urs) has done with 2663....read the arabic text to see what it says! these are the words
2663 Faawhayna ila moosa ani idrib biAAasaka albahra fainfalaqa fakana kullu firqin kaalttawdi alAAatheemi
then we inspired moses that strike by thy staff the sea, then it split, then was each split like mounds mighty!if u want to follow that translation, with all its additions cool! -)
arnoldyasin wrote
You ignore the last sentence
218. They are deaf, dumb and blind, and shall never return;These are metaphorical.
is this a continuation of the mithaal or is it seperate? if it is of a mithaal then it continues with the literal application!
if it is seperate...then it is not an allegory...merely figurative use of those words...i already told u that an allegory conveys atleast 2 understandings!
but if suppose u know i can see and hear physically, then ur calling me "blind and deaf" can mean only 1 understanding that i refuse the truth..... i dunno if u appreciate the usage of words!
arnoldyasin wrote
I'm done here. I have proven my point. Next time when you imply that i ignore things on purpose, make sure you are not guilty of this
yourself. With 5110, you focused on the 'u'r people' bit, while ignoring the verses i gave which directly used tair. Believe what you
want, as i do also. I'm not gonna react on your response, as i'm gone for a while. This MINE best understanding, using the Quran. So all your comments are futile.yes, if it is ur understanding...cool! but why call a literal understanding as a distortion based on evangelical influence? -S
as for the rest of ur post, it is similar to 2663, the translators have generously lent their imaginations...or have taken stuff out of
context...to give just 1 example...of god's law as u understood.....u posted 3362...and what it is in context! -)
3360 If (E) the hypocrites and those whom in their hearts/minds (is) sickness/disease and the spreaders of agitating rumors and bad news to provoke people in the city/town do not end/stop , We will urge/attract (influence) you (to get rid of) with them, then they do not become a neighbor to you in it except a few .
3361 Cursed/humiliated wherever they were defeated/caught up with , they were taken/punished ,and they were killed killingly.
3362 God's way/manner in those who past/expired from before, and you will never/not find to God's way/manner (an exchange/replacement .
so what it does say is that such was the way god decreed against those who persecuted believers afore, and this practise is not to be altered! -)
peace! -)
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thenabi wrote
It appears you are not familiar with associations. Do you understand the association?An example comes to mind with the association of truth and falsehood as that which mimics , but is bound to fade
away being of no use .yes...like the distortion of those who distort the quran...it will fade away...which is why who distort do not provide proofs...only hide
behind abstract concepts! -)
thenabi wrote
The reading has declared that mathal can only be understood by the learned . Not seeing the dead rise to life does not mean it is supernatural or unnatural.
The advice is for the one who thinks and contemplates or ponders/meditates. It establishes nothing. It offers a means to
understanding.u said not having seen the dead raised to life does not make it unbelievable....do u believe by angels and djinns? or because u
cannot see them, they are allegories? -)
i have said enough times i want something tangible....if u can establish it as naturally as life and death then do so...else there is no point in wandering aimlessly! -)
thenabi wroteT
he signs are always there, but those who ignore them pass them by. This ayat relates not only to the future, but to the here and now. Do not be of those who have to be shown the signs when it is too late.did u read 781-5? do u understand "sanurihum"?..did u try to see its relation it with "sayalamun"?....or do u want to wallow in the
illusion of knowing? it takes a competent mind to sweep..where the eyes cannot read, can the mind sweep? -)
thenabi wrote
Yes. Many things I eat depend on it for growth. I depend on it for growth too.depend on the skies alone? does ur rizq grow on earth or in the skies?
thenabi wrote
Such as...god
thenabi wrote
You're talking too much and not paying attention. You could not see that my reply was nonsensicalu admit to replying with nonsense and then talk about others not paying attention? cool! -S
as for that reply from u being non-sensical...what is to be done when that seems to be the rule and not an exception?...so if i were to ignore the nonsense, i doubt there will be anything left to reply to! -)
what it does seem to betray is that u do not understand supernatural from non-existent..can u define non-existent and can u define supernatural? perhaps u should refer to dictionaries! -)
thenabi wrote
Everything. Please define resurrection for me according to your knowledge of the term.u claimed it was as natural as life and death and confusion...all of which i see in abundance...so do the defining!
thenabi wrote
I understand what I wrote.well...hmmm....yeah right...cool! -)
thenabi wrote
Your eyes probably do not see the spectrum either. There are things which to our senses are of the unseen/al-gayb, but which the
mind can see or comprehend.so believing in the spectrum is what god talks about in 23?...when it puts it alongside establishing salat and believing in the
revelation to muhammad and those before him, and having conviction by the hereafter? is that what u are saying? or do u believe gayb is something different than a spectrum? -S
what about this verse
1149 Those are from the unseen information/news , We inspire/transmit it to you, you were not knowing it, you, and nor your nation from before, that, so be patient that the end (result is) to the fearing and obeying.thenabi wrote
I hope that you pay more attention than trying to out talk people. If we were face to face and this was a conversation between us, I'd
say you need to learn to stop speaking and close your mouth for a bit and reflect on what people are saying to you instead of trying to run a race with your mouthlolz...the best way to manifest a pretender is to bring forth his intolerance...in anger a person discards even the pretended knowledge and indulges in plain nonsense...including nonsensical advice! -)
i think this is how a fool operates he goes around incessantly opposing the text with no proof
213 And when it is said to them Believe as the people believe they say Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
and when asked for proofs...turns hostile....he criticises others...but is himself hostile to criticism...does that remind u of somebody? -S
as for the advice...learned and fools alike are entitled to giving advice...however fools only give advice...never practise...but like that verse says "la yalamun"! -)
peace! -)
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ayman wrote
Common sense. Look it up when you can -)huh? u ask others to learn how to use thesauri...but urself look up common sense...hmmm...cool! -)
had common sense been common to all...there would have been no disbelievers! however, when somebody reads the word "supernatural", here or anywhere else, they will refer to a dictionary, not ur common sense! -)
ayman wrote
"supernatural means supernatural", what an intelligent observation -)yes...i also think it is intelligent...as it neither adds not distorts! -) also, i let the dictionary define it, so that there can be a common source! -)
ayman wrote
What do you mean by "universal laws"? Do you mean human or The God's laws?
Everything is not explainable by human laws. Even the simplest thing. This is why what we know is very little compared to what we don't know. From the smallest insect to the biggest galaxy we only understand the very basic and even simple questions such as "how does a mosquito fly?" we can't fully answer. If we knew the "universal laws" about house flies then we can create our own flies. So according to your dictionary nature is "supernatural".If you mean The God's law by "universal law" then everything conforms to The God's laws, unless of course you want to propose otherwise and reject The God.
So either way what you are saying is false.
lolz...after attempts at re-inventing arabic...u are now re-inventing english...why dont u just go ahead and post the definition of super-natural from a dictionary (not thesaurus)...rather than ur reinventions...so that v can proceed to analyze ur assumptions based on common definitions rather than personal assumptions! -) post a definition from leading dictionaries....not personal definitions...v want to have a referenced understanding! -)
ayman wrote
I am not interested in being clueless by saying "supernatural means just that supernatural" and demonstrating zero understanding and adding zero value.i dont see why u have to resort to such things! -) i posted what dictionaries define supernatural as....why dont u do the same? u know how to look up a word in dictionaries...right?...so demonstrate it! -)