"superficial laws"
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Salaams mquran,all,
who decides and who determines?
? Therefore, congratulate My servants who listen to all views, then follow the best. These are the ones guided by God; these are the intelligent ones.
I thinks this tells me something.
God Bless.
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peace mquran, all
I understood the above but I'd like to ask you how you figure out the 'why' and your method of authentication of the 'why' ?
God has given you a brain for a reason ) use it!
Everything that happens has a reason behind it. It is caused by something. And there can be more than one cause, of course.
For example, you are here on this forum for a reason. What you say on this forum tells others what your reasons are. So by what the Quran says, we can figure out the reason behind those laws.Why is stealing bad? because it harms others and you get put in jail (possibly for a long time).
So saying that stealing is bad is also saying that harming others is bad. So anything we do to harm others, or anything to land us in jail is bad.Is there a Quranic justification for your view?
I'm sure there is. Although I doubt most people need one.
It's like checking the Quran to see what kind of bread we should eat.Who determines criteria for 'resemblance' ?
God has already determined. Everything is created a certain way. Everything acts a certain way because of the way it has been created. All we need to do is recognize what everything is.
Suppose pig's meat makes you sick. If something else also makes you sick, then it, at least in that way, resembles pig's meat. So we must avoid it.peace sun
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God has given you a brain for a reason use it!
Everything that happens has a reason behind it. It is caused by something. And there can be more than one cause, of course.You said you determine the 'why's of certain events. Would you like to explain how you determine the why's.
For example, you are here on this forum for a reason. What you say on this forum tells others what your reasons are. So by what the Quran says, we can figure out the reason behind those laws.
Great, but al-quraan is a text tangible to you and me. Historical events are not.
Why is stealing bad? because it harms others and you get put in jail (possibly for a long time).
So saying that stealing is bad is also saying that harming others is bad. So anything we do to harm others, or anything to land us in jail is bad.Ok, but that's your conjecture until you find confirmation in al-quraan.
I'm sure there is. Although I doubt most people need one.
It's like checking the Quran to see what kind of bread we should eat.So you don't have the verse off-hand. Lets be forthright please. And no, its NOT like checking what bread we should eat because al-quraan is silent on the issue. You have a view on tradition and affects the laws of al-quraan. al-quraan has something to say about that but not whether you like wonderbread or not.
God has already determined. Everything is created a certain way. Everything acts a certain way because of the way it has been created. All we need to do is recognize what everything is.
Suppose pig's meat makes you sick. If something else also makes you sick, then it, at least in that way, resembles pig's meat. So we must avoid it.I see. I will think about that, inshaa Allah.
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Peace,
The thing is phoenix, you have to give examples of what you think are superficial laws....
Mostly it is bad translations or approaches. I myself believe there is not one thing in the Quran that cannot be used today, as we have to approach it in the state of mind of this age. -
Peace,
mquran, the pity is, instead of searching for maybe the translation or approach is wrong, people immediatly say; Oh, this is not to be used anymore in these times. What?? Why not take the effort FIRST to see if maybe it is translated wrong, or the arabic allows multiple approaches? First dismissell before research. This is wrong. Since my study began, i haven't found ONE single verse which could not fit in a space age even. Mostly people had critism on translations, which they were correct in, then i showed the real meaning or better meaning in classic arabic, and then they said i re-interpretated the verse and not took a literal translation! Even when i came with a perfect literal translation, still they dismissed it to be correct. So this showed they just wanted something to reject the Quran for, and when i came showing the verse was not wrong but the approach, they didn't like it, me taking away their reason for dismissel.
I'm not saying phoenix that you are like this. But next time first tell the verses you have problems with, as most of the time it has to do with your interpretation or the translation. Study before critism. I'm a scientist and i study Theology, and i'm specializing myself in interpretation of Scriptures through out the ages. So i know exactly how rejection of interpretations work. And i would not accept non-sense myself. But that is just the thing, i haven't found not any single non-sense rule or wisdom in the Quran. Only wrong translations or approaches.
Peace
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Peace,
The thing is phoenix, you have to give examples of what you think are superficial laws....
Mostly it is bad translations or approaches. I myself believe there is not one thing in the Quran that cannot be used today, as we have to approach it in the state of mind of this age.peace arnoldyasin,
I didn't say the Quran has superficial laws. I said people take those laws superficially, and don't look at the reason behind those laws or other implications of those laws. My point was exactly the opposite of what you understood. The Quran does not have anything superficial. People just take it that way.
i haven't found not any single non-sense rule or wisdom in the Quran. Only wrong translations or approaches.
the approach to the laws is exactly what I was talking about. People can take those laws "superficially" or they can look for a deeper understanding and the reason behind those laws. Then use that understanding in everything and not just the specific thing the Quran refers to (if it does at all).
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Peace,
Sorry got you wrong..... D
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Peace all
phoenix wrote
I didn't say the Quran has superficial laws. I said people take those laws superficially, and don't look at the reason behind those laws or other implications of those lawsI second u on this phoenix. May be you mean what i stated in another post about the different interpretations of law litteral (which could be what you call superficial) , historical, teleological(if that is what it is called in english), systemic...
you'll find explanations on the net - sorry no time to develop
lk
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Elkesecond u on this phoenix. May be you mean what i stated in another post about the different interpretations of law litteral (which could be what you call superficial) , historical, teleological(if that is what it is called in english), systemic...
Can you provide evidence for this 'historical' and 'teleological' and 'systemic' from al-quraan.
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Arnold
mquran, the pity is, instead of searching for maybe the translation or approach is wrong, people immediatly say; Oh, this is not to be used anymore in these times. What?? Why not take the effort FIRST to see if maybe it is translated wrong, or the arabic allows multiple approaches? First dismissell before research. This is wrong. Since my study began, i haven't found ONE single verse which could not fit in a space age even. Mostly people had critism on translations, which they were correct in, then i showed the real meaning or better meaning in classic arabic, and then they said i re-interpretated the verse and not took a literal translation! Even when i came with a perfect literal translation, still they dismissed it to be correct. So this showed they just wanted something to reject the Quran for, and when i came showing the verse was not wrong but the approach, they didn't like it, me taking away their reason for dismissel.Oh agreed. I admit that Sunnism has cast a rather thick veil but I assumed that since these people were so quick in critique-ing, they'd done their work. Not often the case, Im sorry to say.
I'm not saying phoenix that you are like this. But next time first tell the verses you have problems with, as most of the time it has to do with your interpretation or the translation. Study before critism. I'm a scientist and i study Theology, and i'm specializing myself in interpretation of Scriptures through out the ages. So i know exactly how rejection of interpretations work. And i would not accept non-sense myself. But that is just the thing, i haven't found not any single non-sense rule or wisdom in the Quran. Only wrong translations or approaches.
Al-quraan has one difference. It's aware of itself and proposes itself to the world. It's in this proposition that we find it disclosing itself as living ayaat of today.
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Elken my world i do not need quranic evidence for everything
so i don't bother to even look for verses
Good for you. Certainly makes things easier when you want to justify your actions. I applaud your honesty.
i sure could find some that could be interpreted in that way - and that you could interpret differently
Yes, do show us some. I'd love to see them.
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peace
I don't understand why this topic was moved?
how is this questioning Quranic divinity?
anyway...mquran, we should think about what the quran says. Ponder over it's verses and figure out the best understanding. The quran supports that. If we don't think,then we don't understand, and we just follow. Following without understanding and questioning is dangerous.
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second u on this phoenix. May be you mean what i stated in another post about the different interpretations of law litteral (which could be what you call superficial) , historical, teleological(if that is what it is called in english), systemic...
peace Elke,
yes. It could be a literal understanding, but it's basically any interpretation that doesn't take with it the underlying message(s) of the quran. Those "hidden" messages are probably more important than the laws. Because if we understand the reason behind those laws, no matter what law we govern ourselves with, it will always agree with that reason, that message.