who is a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you KGB,
What are you talking about?
Mumammed is the Apostle of Allah. You started playing your usual word game changing the meaing. Would you accept Mohammed as Allah Apostle and Messager if I start writing it Apostle Muhammed (SAW)?
Lets make it easy, just underline the phrase "Prophet Muhammad" so I can see it clearly.
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Peace be upon you Kyle
Thats what I did Muhammad Rasool Allah. Verse 4829.
LOL bro
that was a good one
cheers
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Peace be upon you,
And which word is "Prophet"?
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wow
there is a game of words going in here
I have to watch that game, I like games of words
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Peace be upon you Kyle
No matter how much proof I will give you from Qur'an you will not believe it. You may be a nice decent person but according to Qur'an you can't be a Muslim.
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin rasoola Allahi wakhatama alnnabiyyeena wakana Allahu bikulli shayin AAaleeman
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Peace be upon you Kyle
One more for you. WIll you believe?
3144 Muhammad is no more than an apostle many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
Wama muhammadun illa rasoolun qad khalat min qablihi alrrusulu afain mata aw qutila inqalabtum AAala aAAqabikum waman yanqalib AAala AAaqibayhi falan yadurra Allaha shayan wasayajzee Allahu alshshakireena
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MQuran its not history which is calling him Prophet Muhmmad (SAW). Its the clear verses of Qur'an the words which are the clear proof of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
You are trying to take certain words from these ayat and try to run away with it with your and Kyle's (Idolfree) understanding which is very dangerous because you two will be misguiding God knows how many who are visiting this forum.
Sorry but no. I'm not taking 'certain words'. This is a mistake which I take great pains to avoid and I will be happy if you show me where I am doing so so I can correct myself. I make sure I read ayaat in context and the 4 times where 'muhammad' occurs, it doesnt speak of a historical event. Ayaat of al-quraan are living.
Can you veryify each and every word of Qur'an? Certainly not. You have to believe in the words of Allah as they are in clear verses.
Of course we can. 41/53 please. The ayaat of al-quraan are manifest in our realities now and forever. Al-quraan has a complete grip of the human being.
PS If anybody get offended by writing SAW with Prophet Muhammed name than I am willing to change it to Peace be upon him if English words you find more acceptable.
I respect your honouring of Muhammad ibn Abdullah. Call him as you believe, please don't worry about me, at least.
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Peace,
Kyle, not sure what you are leading to, but Mohammed is clearly both a Prophet and Messenger of God as outlined in the verses already displayed by KGB.
KGB, not sure why you state in your signature "Mohammed the last prophet and last messenger". The Quran supports him being the seal of the Prophets, but not the final messenger (messengers will continue until j-day).
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LaythKGB, not sure why you state in your signature "Mohammed the last prophet and last messenger". The Quran supports him being the seal of the Prophets, but not the final messenger (messengers will continue until j-day).
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
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Peace be upon you all,
My point was simple, I asked KGB to show me the PHRASE "Prophet Muhammad", which is not in this reading. We can talk about "implications" next, but to lay the foundation, we need to clarify certain things. However, KGB is unwilling to admit a simple observeable fact.
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Peace be upon you All
Thank you. The purpose of this discussion is fulfilled. I have no problem with Kyle and MQuran understanding of Prophet. People who will be visiting this forum will clearly see that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the person to whom Allah send the revelation Qur'an. Layth thank you.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past. Qur'an is the last book of Allah and there will be no more revelations (wahi) will be send once this book is completed. Please refer to 5101 this is the verse which make me come to this definate conclusion.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
People who will be visiting this forum will clearly see that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was the person to whom Allah send the revelation Qur'an. Layth thank you.
Is there a video on this forum showing the transacton? What did I miss? Also, one other question for you KGB? Why do you put (SAW) after an alleged man's name, but NOTHING after the Creator of all things? Not that I promote saying (SWT) after Allah, but it is interesting to see how "muhamad" is respected more than Allah by those who can't serve the God without adding a partner.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past.
No where is it stated that there is a "LAST" messenger nor "LAST" prophet. SEAL does not mean "LAST" nor "END".
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Peace be upon you Kyle
What you said is your understanding? How you do translate the word "Seal"? People have mistranslated the words of Qur'an in the past and there are people now who translate words of Qur'an to promote their own ideas and promote their own agenda.
I try to do what I am commanded to do by Allah (SWT). Following is one of the verse which command us to honor Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). I believe English make you more comfortable.
7157 Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honor him and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him they are the successful.
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past. Qur'an is the last book of Allah and there will be no more revelations (wahi) will be send once this book is completed. Please refer to 5101 this is the verse which make me come to this definate conclusion.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
What you said is your understanding? How you do translate the word "Seal"?
A seal is something that is penetrated by those who reach the level of "muhammadun" in order to INTUIT Divine Wisdom. The God uses another word all over this book to describe the concept of END/LAST. Why would the concept of a LAST/FINAL messenger use a different word? Please do not respond just to protect what you were taught (as most of us where taught the same thing), but refelct deeply on this.
People have mistranslated the words of Qur'an in the past and there are people now who translate words of Qur'an to promote their own ideas and promote their own agenda.
Correct, so why do you follow what you were taught so readily? Where is your critical reasoning brother?
I try to do what I am commanded to do by Allah (SWT). Following is one of the verse which command us to honor Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).
I am glad you gave Allah at least the same veneration that you gave Muhammad this time, but you must take a look at yourself and ask WHY you were in that position to be corrected. We must always inspect ourselves and our ideas. Do not take what is being said here as an attack on you, many of us have been here for many years going through the same process you are going through. After a while, these generic answers will weigh on your conscious and you will look for something more substancial.
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
Peace
Shareef attitude was excatly the same the people who claim to be Messanger of Allah (SWT). Mirza Ghulam Ahmed claims are absurd, he was arrogant, his all wahi were related to money and women, he used abusive language for people who do not believe in his messangership, he was self centered. He was mentally distrubed as well. His claims that Allah (SWT) has changed the centre from Mecca to Quadian. Latest Rashad Al Khalifah, self centred, arrogant, manipulator.
There are other as well like Ismailis Aga Khan, Bohris Syedna Buhran uddin which are religious corporations for making money.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
This is good interpretation. I don't disagree with this. I did not meet anyone who is a true messanger of Allah (SWT) and the chances are and I never will by looking at the examples of people who claimed to be the messager after Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). So our discusssion concluded with this post. Thank you again Layth.
