Quran - Word for Word.
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Peace
wich version are we talking about? A no from me.
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Peace Phoenix1, Magi and others,
Any version currently existing and being read and taught today.
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Peace,
Yes, i believe so, and with the code we can check word for word.........As KGB says, God made a promise....
peace arnoldyasin,
I think the code proves exactly the opposite. Either you believe the Quran has been changed, or you realize that there really isn't a code 19 as Rashad Khalifa wanted us to believe.
(not that i want to discuss code 19 right now) -
Peace danish and all. I use to think the quran was preserved word for word,in my naivety...But as i researched more i found 'variant' readings (hafs and warsh etc..),the rasheed khalifah version,and an uncertainty in the muslim world as to whether the bismillahs are part of the surahs or not....Lets also not forget that historically uthman burnt a lot of the 'unauthorised' readings of the quran,and many sahabas had different versions and 'abrogated' verses in their posession....
So the answer is no,it is not the original word for word quran today....
Peace all. ps;Ive read that originally the quran did not have the vocalisation marks that it has today,and that it did not even originally have dots on the baas and yaas,etc... -
Peace 'enquirer',
Peace danish and all. I use to think the quran was preserved word for word,in my naivety...But as i researched more i found 'variant' readings (hafs and warsh etc..),the rasheed khalifah version,and an uncertainty in the muslim world as to whether the bismillahs are part of the surahs or not....Lets also not forget that historically uthman burnt a lot of the 'unauthorised' readings of the quran,and many sahabas had different versions and 'abrogated' verses in their posession....
So the answer is no,it is not the original word for word quran today....
Peace all. ps;Ive read that originally the quran did not have the vocalisation marks that it has today,and that it did not even originally have dots on the baas and yaas,etc...Exactly, I was in the same ball-game and moved from one level to another, studying from various angles and aspects of the Quran inside-out in which its built and presented, and to little extent the Arabic linguistics.
Not even half the members currently discussing Quran have given their views and I am still awaiting their stance on this crucial issue, inclusive of mods/admins. Com'on fellas, be spirited, its not gonna bite ya; we are discussing a book, not GOD, for GOD's sake.
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peace Danish, all
The quran used to be sort of an idol to me. I wanted to believe it was from God because it was the reason for my belief in God. For me, God existed only because the quran said so. So if the quran wasn't from God, then God might not exist at all.
Now my belief in God alone has nothing to do with the quran. The quran has some great (and timeless) guidance, and I am unsure as to whether it is word for word from God (gotta see how that debate turns out). But now, if it turns out that it's not, then it doesn't matter. The quran is dependent on God, it's not the other way around.So is it settled that the quran hasn't been preserved word for word? if so, we need to take a different approach to that "promise."
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peace phoenix and all. I think you are using a 'sensible' attitude towards the 'is the quran from god', question...If it is grom god you still have your 'faith',and if it isnt from god you still retain your faith...I feel many people are defensive on the quran because they feel if it is proved that it is fallible then,it will undemine all their values,or even their god...
Peace all.Ps;morality or faith is not dependent on the quran,or any book... -
Peace,
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I think the code proves exactly the opposite. Either you believe the Quran has been changed, or you realize that there really isn't a code 19 as Rashad Khalifa wanted us to believe.
(not that i want to discuss code 19 right now)Yes, i do believe words and some letters has been changed. And through the code, we can verify what is part of it. I believe you have misunderstood the code, as it doesn't protect. It shows the written form has been changed over time, and through the pattern inside, we can verify what exactly. It is only a verification method, not a protection system. So it confirmes the Quran has been changed, otherwise you don't a verification method to see what exactly has been changed. And we don't need Rashad to verify if there is a code. i have seen the pattern myself. Rashad's ideas don't matter anymore, our ideas does.
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peace phoenix and all. I think you are using a 'sensible' attitude towards the 'is the quran from god', question...If it is grom god you still have your 'faith',and if it isnt from god you still retain your faith...I feel many people are defensive on the quran because they feel if it is proved that it is fallible then,it will undemine all their values,or even their god...
yes. That's the fear I used to have. No divine quran = No God. That's how it used to be. But now whether the quran is divine or not, it doesn't matter. And people should realize that.
If your belief in God and morality is dependent on the belief that quran is written by God, then the quran IS your idol.
peace
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Yes, i do believe words and some letters has been changed. And through the code, we can verify what is part of it. I believe you have misunderstood the code, as it doesn't protect. It shows the written form has been changed over time, and through the pattern inside, we can verify what exactly. It is only a verification method, not a protection system. So it confirmes the Quran has been changed, otherwise you don't a verification method to see what exactly has been changed. And we don't need Rashad to verify if there is a code. i have seen the pattern myself. Rashad's ideas don't matter anymore, our ideas does.
peace
makes sense. But according to some research a few members here have done, the code DOESN'T work the MAJORITY of the time. Does that mean the quran has changed that much? -
Peace,
We are just at the brink of understanding it all. There has been found a new pattern that shows new things. I believe it will take years to understand it all. So we cannot judge it yet. I just take the Quran in whole as it is now, and let the code verify it one by one. This is the only purpose of the code, nothing more. Just like with understanding the classic arabic in the Quran and it's uses, we are just beginning. We are on a brink, these are exciting times, and i feel honoured to be part of it all. Just sit back and enjoy the rollercoaster ride...
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I feel many people are defensive on the quran because they feel if it is proved that it is fallible then,it will undemine all their values,or even their god...
I disagree.
Although I do believe that the message has been preserved i do not believe that the vocalization remarks have been preserved.
As for code 19, it can be imitated if you are willing to put the effort in. I heard it was imitated by some Christians.
The only thing that undermines peoples faith is the "claims of contradictions" in the Quran. There are plenty of errors and contradictions in the interpretation of the quran but they are all human errors and there are none in al-quran in it's original language.
peace,
sugar -
Peace,
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As for code 19, it can be imitated if you are willing to put the effort in. I heard it was imitated by some Christians.No, they cannot. They have not. They haven't written a book with a specific pattern of words in it, that has no contradictions, that contains scienitifcal knowledge that can only be discovered hundred's of years from now, that contains perfect history to the letter and has perfect wisdom. When they have done that, i believe them. But they cannot ever accomplish this. Please, investigate more before just claim something. I don't believe you have investigated it enough, although you have been on submission.org. You reject the whole thing now you have discovered most of rashad's ideas are wrong. This is not wise.....
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Peace sugar and all. Can anyone tell me the difference between the arabic meanings of the quran,and peoples interpretations of the quran....? If only god knows the true arabic interpretations,then the quran is unclear/impractical for humans? Yes/no?
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Peace sugar and all. Can anyone tell me the difference between the arabic meanings of the quran,and peoples interpretations of the quran....? If only god knows the true arabic interpretations,then the quran is unclear/impractical for humans? Yes/no?
IF this were true, yes. But it's not.
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We`have the classic arabic recorded in the several dictionaries, together with the usage of the words inside the Quran, we can get a clear picture. But a lot of meanings are still to be unraveled. So the Quran is not unclear at all.
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Peace arnoldyasin. How do you say the quran does not contradict history,when you dont recognise history as an 'exact' science....A little circular in reasoning...? How do you define perfect history?
Sugar;so how do we know which 'human' has the correct understanding...? -
Peace,
Can anyone tell me the difference between the arabic meanings of the quran,and peoples interpretations of the quran....?
Time gaps, language barriers and mindsets.
If only god knows the true arabic interpretations,then the quran is unclear/impractical for humans? Yes/no?
YES. Funny when people insist upon and convey explicit renderings of Quranic injunctions with a final note of "Allah knows best".