Quran - Word for Word.
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I know, i used to follow his religion.
peace,
sugar -
Well, at least you escaped. It's much better now than when I first came to this thinking back in 96. Back then, only submission.org was available.
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Well, at least you escaped. It's much better now than when I first came to this thinking back in 96. Back then, only submission.org was available.
YIKES! elektro
so did you take it all literally or just ignore parts of it?
peace,
sugar -
Well, I never accepted code 19 nor RK's messengership. I was too occupied with the hadith issue which took me a long time to get over. Fortunately for me, by the time I dumped hadith (early 97), Kashif Ahmed Shehzada came on to the scene and his articles on al-quraan were amazing. I didn't bother with submission.org since.
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Peace,
I don't care what RK says or claims, this still doesn't take away the patterns. But it is about the Quran itself. I also first believed submission.org, and also Edip's articles saved me. Now i'm even beyond Edip's thinking. I still believe in the pattern, and it is amazing. As the pattern doesn't prove RK's view on the Quran, the pattern is loose from any view on the Quran. If you believe in the code, doesn't mean you have to support RK's views, that is nonsense.
But we're getting offtopic here.............. D -
I was too occupied with the hadith issue which took me a long time to get over.
lol i rejected ahadith within a week yay
i had always had a problem with them as a child .
even before I had heard of submission.org i used to reject loads of ahadith that I had read anyway ignore
It's ironic how RK's followers believe the Quran had been unaltered yet RK removed 2 verses, after re-evaluating the evidence the only compelling evidence they had to remove the verses where the hadiths they quoted on (coz the "code" gets kinda wacky at that point > , ironically hadith is the very thing they tell us all to reject. ;D
peace,
sugar -
Peace,
They have found a new way to calculate that shows the 2 verses are part of the Quran. This was found by non-submission.org people. And like i said, the pattern is not founded on RK findings. You have to seperate these two, and look at it objectively. The code is a verification method, nothing more. God promised protection, the code didn't protect it.
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They have found a new way to calculate that shows the 2 verses are part of the Quran.
lol exactly how many versions of "code 19" have been discovered?
i remember reading an article in submission.org which said that the 'satanic cults' (in other words us) have created many of there own versions of code 19.
peace,
sugar -
Is it settled? By two guys who do no more than rant and ramble? What kind of a scientist are you, Phoenix?
;D
I thought it was, since someone has yet to counter their arguments. The best understanding so far, for me, is that the Quran has not been preserved word for word, but not many changes have been made. But minor changes are still changes. -
We are still finding out all the ways. In the end only the scientific ones will stand. And who cares what submission says...............
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Peace,
They have found a new way to calculate that shows the 2 verses are part of the Quran. This was found by non-submission.org people. And like i said, the pattern is not founded on RK findings. You have to seperate these two, and look at it objectively. The code is a verification method, nothing more. God promised protection, the code didn't protect it.
peace
why can't it be a possibility that those verses aren't part of the quran? if some of it has been changed, why not those two verses?
And sorry, I'm just as skeptical as Sugar. I can't believe this "new" code unless i can see it for myself.
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I do believe myself Rk's finding still stands and that the two verses are not included, i just shared something i just heard. And that the two verses aren't part, is indeed more likely and even honest as it is almost impossible to keep a scripture THAT clean. That would be more a miracle then the Quran itself.
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i don't believe those verses are false.
There are various versions of the Arabic Quran that are out there. They differ in many aspects (be they vocal, diacritical pointsor, graphic, etc) but I don?t think that matters because they all convey the same message.
I do believe that the exact words are preserved.
I aint gonna waste any more time trying to work out if those verses are really false. They don't sound "false" and those two verses do not decree any law/s so it aint that important to me and they won't help me progress.
peace,
sugar -
There are various versions of the Arabic Quran that are out there. They differ in many aspects (be they vocal, diacritical pointsor, graphic, etc) but I don?t think that matters because they all convey the same message.
I do believe that the exact words are preserved.
I aint gonna waste any more time trying to work out if those verses are really false. They don't sound "false" and those two verses do not decree any law/s so it aint that important to me and they won't help me progress.
peace Sugar
yes, the message is more important than the words. And only the people who want to understand it will understand it.
And that's what I don't get about those two verses. Even if they were part of the original quran, the exclusion of those verses cannot be used against his ideas because they are hardly the backbone of the quranic message.
and if you do believe the exact words are preserved, what do you think about all the other versions of the quran. And what about the early manuscripts that were destroyed by the early muslim leaders when compiling the quran?
they have only slight differences, but they still prove that it hasn't been preserved word for word. -
yes, the message is more important than the words. And only the people who want to understand it will understand it.
How do you understand the message if not through the words?
And that's what I don't get about those two verses. Even if they were part of the original quran, the exclusion of those verses cannot be used against his ideas because they are hardly the backbone of the quranic message.
RK had very convoluted ideas.
and if you do believe the exact words are preserved, what do you think about all the other versions of the quran. And what about the early manuscripts that were destroyed by the early muslim leaders when compiling the quran?
Wow, where did you get these stories from , Phoenix? How do you authenticate these tales?
they have only slight differences, but they still prove that it hasn't been preserved word for word.
If in fact those books are al-quraan, sure. But they're not.
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what do you think about all the other versions of the quran. And what about the early manuscripts that were destroyed by the early muslim leaders when compiling the quran?
they have only slight differences, but they still prove that it hasn't been preserved word for word.i do believe that an unaltered copy of al-quran is out there somewhere and i am sure one of these many versions of "code 19" will confirm that in the future.
peace,
sugar -
There never was a true Bible. Bible comes from biblia, meaning collection. The Bible is a collection of chosen books and manuscripts that fitted the Chrsitian doctrine. But i you refer to like the Psalms of David, yes those are changed. But not in comparison to the Quran. Only minute details of the Quran has changed. Not big changes as with other books.