Do people before the advent of Islam go to heaven?
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Peace
I did see that but it is waste of time try to explain something to someone who do not believe that Qur'an is the divine revelations of Allah (SWT).
Mate
I advice that you convey the message then messure the ego and intelligence scale of the replys of your opponent, A Quran submitter should easily identify the hopeless cases through those two scales, and sure I donlt waste my time with hopeless cases
cheers
Sadiqi Ahmed Bahgat. He did reach to this level. Waste of time in my own judgement.
Man
I had enough of some people here Sadiqi, this is gettin boring, so I will be a watcher for a while and just enjoy some non sense that I read here
look at the example posted by Arnold who claimes to understand the Quran well, he cut 37 short to suit his flawed understanding regarding 37, well I issue the challenge to him to prove that 37 says the knwledgeable people will crack the meaning of the Mutshabihat verses, i hope he will not have a runner this time
another example is phonix, look how he insist on thinking that Allah and His message should be linked together
far out bro, may Allah be with them
cheers
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peace Ahmed,
I don't appreciate it when you don't answer my questions. If i am wrong, instead of just pointing that out, please give me an explanation.He is the One who sent down to you the Scripture, from which there are firm verses; they are the essence of the Scripture; and others which are similar to each other. As for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God and those who are well founded in knowledge, they Say "We believe in it, all is from our Lord." And none will remember except the people of understanding.
and arnoldyasin can never prove that to you because no matter what explanation he offers, you will always claim that it is wrong. So such a challenge is pointless.
Why don't we discuss 37, then?
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Here is the 37 challenge to Arnold
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5840.0
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peace Ahmed,
I don't appreciate it when you don't answer my questions. If i am wrong, instead of just pointing that out, please give me an explanation.Peace bro
I will answer it, I'm sorry I just waked up and going through the quick responses then I will have a shower and take my son for the sunday driving hour then I will come back to your comment
Why don't we discuss 37, then?
Please join us in the above link and I will be very intersetd to tell me what do you think
cheers
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Peace,
I don't claim to know the Quran well. I do my best to understand it, nothing more. Don't put words in my mouth. And please AB, why would God send verses without us ever to understand them? The Quran is to guide us, not to give us a new game called 'let's find the Mutshabihat verses'. All verses are meant to be understood by humans as it was send to mankind, to say that some verses are only understood by God is nonsensical. There are unlimited things that only God understands, why put some in a book that is made to guide us? That is my approach to this verse, which holds more water then just saying only God knows what some verses mean. God doesn't play tricks with us.
Peace
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Peace bro
I will answer it, I'm sorry I just waked up and going through the quick responses then I will have a shower and take my son for the sunday driving hour then I will come back to your comment
Quote from phoenix1 on Today at 122724 PM
Why don't we discuss 37, then?Please join us in the above link and I will be very intersetd to tell me what do you think
cheers
Thank you.
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Peace,
I don't claim to know the Quran well. I do my best to understand it, nothing more. Don't put words in my mouth. And please AB, why would God send verses without us ever to understand them? The Quran is to guide us, not to give us a new game called 'let's find the Mutshabihat verses'. All verses are meant to be understood by humans as it was send to mankind, to say that some verses are only understood by God is nonsensical. There are unlimited things that only God understands, why put some in a book that is made to guide us? That is my approach to this verse, which holds more water then just saying only God knows what some verses mean. God doesn't play tricks with us.
Peace
Bro
it is not a trick if it was told in advance
if it was not told then I agree with you that it is a trick
please respond to my comment on the other thread I raised for you
cheers
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Peace,
When i have done more research, i will respond. But i'm not an expert in arabic, i just know certain things. But like i told above, my logic is my approach to the Quran.
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Salaam Ahmed Bahgat
Thank you for detailed explation of 37. There is too much confusion regarding Qur'an verses because everybody is trying to prove that they are the only ones who had understand the Qur'an. Shabbir Ahmed is one of the internet scholar who has the same views as Arnold Yasin that why Allah (SWT) will send something which is not understood by humans.
PS Arnold also keep in mind Shabbir Ahmed QXP is not word for word transalation of Qur'an. He has included lot of his own understanding in QXP.
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I know, but that doesn't take away the logic i use.
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Peace,
When i have done more research, i will respond. But i'm not an expert in arabic, i just know certain things. But like i told above, my logic is my approach to the Quran.
Take your time bro, this is not about winning rather about the benefit of the best Quran understainding and avoiding conjestures
cheers
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Salaam Ahmed Bahgat
Thank you for detailed explation of 37. There is too much confusion regarding Qur'an verses because everybody is trying to prove that they are the only ones who had understand the Qur'an. Shabbir Ahmed is one of the internet scholar who has the same views as Arnold Yasin that why Allah (SWT) will send something which is not understood by humans.
PS Arnold also keep in mind Shabbir Ahmed QXP is not word for word transalation of Qur'an. He has included lot of his own understanding in QXP.
I don't know man why they do this?, possibly Satan has something to do with it, anyway man remeber this, stay as literal as possible to the Quran Arabic words, this will elminate all sorts of conjesture and contradiction Sadiqi
on a side note, I never thought of myself as one of the best to know the Arabic Quran, I'm only confident to what i understand this confidence has merit which is my fluency in the Arabic language
Cheers
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Peace,
When i have done more research, i will respond. But i'm not an expert in arabic, i just know certain things. But like i told above, my logic is my approach to the Quran.
Take your time bro, this is not about winning rather about the benefit of the best Quran understainding and avoiding conjestures
cheers
same here... If the arabic cannot be avoided, of course i accept. But i know it is not that simple...
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Ahmed Baghat I respect and trust all of you who have command on Arabic language.
Peace Sadiqi )
Sadiqi
Thanks for the trust to those who speak fluent Arabic, you have to be careful too my freind, it can be a disaster as well if you consider satan in the picture, this is obvious when you look at many native Arabic speakers who lack the Quran understainding or misunderstand it
The prophet said man, "Ieqlha Wa Tawkal", i.e. "See if it makes sense then Tawaka On Allah if you are going to follow it", what a wisdom that is my friend
cheers
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peace Ahmed,
Peace bro
Sorry for the delay, I?m flying on Thursday and I have a loads of things to do and yet I?m trying hard to keep myself active in here
I don't think we need to take God and Quran together.
If the Quran is His message then how come you sperate the two, God is not a symbol bro
What if you were locked up in a room and were only given to read what your captives allowed, and they never give you the Quran.
I?m sure that I read in the Quran somewhere that those who didnlt receive the message will be excused, I? still looking for it, I just can?t remember one Arabic word from the verse
Would you not believe in God then? would it be impossible for you to have a sense of morality?
Well, I don?t get this example man, can you please try a realistic example?
It is easy for people like me and you to follow the quran blindly.
No it is not for me, I only try hard to do as such and I try really hard
We've been brought up believing that.
I was not really, I was alcoholic, a womaniser and drug user and you can name it all, in fact my parents even knew what I?m doing and my father used to come to the house and see women with me in the house, the point of being brought up in Islamic environment does not apply to me
It was ingrained in our brains at an early age that the quran is from God.
Abdolutely not in my case, I found this through my careful study to it, see my life was amess up to 21 years old and when was hit really hard, I had no other choice but to try the Quran, what helped me though to do it independent that I was always cleaver at my studies in schools despite the unhealthy life I had, one of the subjects I did really well was Nahaw ?Arabic grammar?, and this made lt like a pieace of cake to me, I was hooked the moment I opened the Quran
What if a christian reads the quran? how can he/she blindly believe in it right away?
I don?t really know, but I guess it is up to Allah how He can facilitate the causes to guide them
We don't need to verify every single verse.
We only need to verify the Muhkamat verses and we also need to verify that a specific verse is a Mutashabih verse
But all the major points in the quran. For example killing is wrong, or stealing is wrong. We can see for ourselves that those things are bad. The rules for governments, distibuting wealth, all of those laws.
Not sure what you are trying to say?, I guess you are saying that the quran said things that are obvious to follow by nature?, fine, I have no problem with that, it is a complete guidance anyway and I expect to see all sorts of guidance in it
How can we just assume, without ever reading it, that the quran is from God? and if we have to read it, and understand it to believe that, then you agree with me that we have to verify.
Verify the muhkamat verses as well verifying that others are mutashabihat then conceding that we can NOT know the meaning but Allah only knows
and is 37 telling us that NO ONE will be able to understand those verses or only the ones with knowledge?
the problem here you joined a sentence to the half of the next sentence after it and consequently you will be left with the other half of the second sentence that absolutely makes no sense, ?They Say We believe in both as both from Allah?, please explain, thank you
and if it is saying what you think it does, then doesn't that sound a bit suspicious. [
I mean, I could write a book and say all sorts of things in it, and then claim that this book is from God. And it's not perfect because God included in it non-sense on purpose, to test us.Excuse me bro, this is actually another Quran challenge, because in 1400 years no one done that
Thanks for slam danking your case
cheers
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4213 He has decreed for you (mankind) the same system (Deen) He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you (Muhammad), and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
He decreed for you(mankind) the same religion (Deen) decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you (Muhammad), and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. GOD redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself only those who totally submit.
Another words, as i remember from the Quran 'God's system never changes'
1777 This is the way of those whom We sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.
This has been consistently the case with all the messengers that we sent before you, and you will find that our system never changes.
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peace Ahmed,
(you don't need to reply to this right away as you are very busy, so do it whenever you are ready.)If the Quran is His message then how come you sperate the two, God is not a symbol bro
I know God's not a symbol, but i don't believe that it is necessary to believe in the quran to believe in God. God, and his guidance, is not limited to that one book. God is everywhere.
You are ignoring the billions of people who have never read the quran in their life yet live life according to it. How is that possible? How do people believe in one God even when they live in around people who are against Islam and whatever is associated with it. I'm sure you've met a christian, or a jew, or an athiest, who is just as good of a person as you are. This is what my example was about as well. My view is entirely based upon my own experience.
One does not need the quran in order to believe in the Truth.and I am truly sorry for assuming something about you. I guess that point didn't work.
But I think your believing in the quran proves my point. You found some reason to believe that the quran is the word of God. You found in it some guidance that you just knew was divine. That means there was a period in which you looked at it critically, examining it, trying to find in it some guidance. Am I right?
If not, you would be the only person that believes a book is from God just because it says so. Which is impossible.
We all need to understand the quran to believe in it.
And I don't think I can go any further than that until the issue with 37 is resolved.Excuse me bro, this is actually another Quran challenge, because in 1400 years no one done that
There are many people who do that. They say stuff (or write it down) and claim that it is true. There are many examples of that. And I bet (the $20 my mom gave me today) that there have been some people who have tried some trick to make them seem truthful.
No one would take that "challenge" seriously as it is ridiculous.
"My book is divine. It contains facts, and other statements that are not clear and no one can know their true meaning"
Dan Brown can claim that The Da Vinci Code is divine using that method. It certainly contains some undeniable, established facts. And then there is the other "made up" stuff that he can easily claim is allegorical. And trying to figure out the meaning is futile because you will never know the answer.
See what I'm getting at? Hope i'm making myself clear.I'm sorry to say my case hasn't been slam dunked yet, brother.
peace