a surah like it
-
Code 19 is a bonus but it is by no means the only reason to prove quran is divine.
Given that it apparently require you to remove stuff. How is it a bonus?
remove what?
it has been calculated again and those verses Dr. Rashad Khalifa removed are not actually false.
Like what? what can i learn from Quran, that i cannot learn from any other source alike?
maybe i should write a book about that )
Other scriptures have been vastly distorted unlike the quran.
And they are contradicting the Quran to some extent. Here is a link that very briefly shows how the Bible contradicts al-quran.
http//www.submission.org/god-bible.htmlit is indeed an excellent answer from kyle. What is the relevance to "the surah like it" posted?
judging from the manuscript you posted i was under the impression you wanted to start a debate about scripture vs scripture.
I really have no idea what you are getting at confused
Why are you so desperate to argue that anyone can produce a "surah like it" if you don't trust god when he says that no one can produce a surah like it confused
you said that you believe that the quran is from god but now I am under the impression you think god is an idiot? am i right?
peace,
sugar -
Peace sugar. Lots of the surahs in the quran can be used to 'hate' as well...Especially surah 9...,385 etc,etc...
-
it has been calculated again and those verses Dr. Rashad Khalifa removed are not actually false.
I will verify this
Other scriptures have been vastly distorted unlike the quran.
This has nothing to do with a surah like it, however. I hear this claim over and over, there is just no way to truely verify the claim.
And they are contradicting the Quran to some extent. Here is a link that very briefly shows how the Bible contradicts al-quran.
http//www.submission.org/god-bible.htmlIm not looking for a scripture vs. scripture debate, you keep turning it this way. Do you want such a debate? Thanks for the link, its a good read, i have read it.
judging from the manuscript you posted i was under the impression you wanted to start a debate about scripture vs scripture.
I really have no idea what you are getting at confused
A surah like it. THe challenge. I produced a surah like it, and you say its not a surah like it. But still havent told me excactly why. And on what premises you make the judgement.
Why are you so desperate to argue that anyone can produce a "surah like it" if you don't trust god when he says that no one can produce a surah like it confused
Im not desperate to argue anything. Now there is another turn. Suddenly trusting God is trusting the Quran blindly. This leads me to a former question of yours, that now can be answered.
I said My own stand is that any scripture can end up being its own set of blinders, for whatever it intend to show you.
you said that you believe that the quran is from god but now I am under the impression you think god is an idiot? am i right?
peace,
sugarwhat makes you conclude this. And no. nothing could be further from the truth.
Still we need to sort out the subject at hand. A surah like it. I produced a surah like many in the Quran, several in fact. And you are telling me its a no go. Why?
Peace
-
Peace phoenix. 223 and 1038 contain the 'challenges' for a surah like it...
-
Salaamun alaikum,
A 'sura' refers to a coherent discourse about the existence and essence of man. Please see the CONTEXT of 2/23 which has been ignored for the most part.
The word sura doesn't appear to point towards the sections of al-quraan marked by the basmala. Rather, if one reads 10/37-38, in which 37 has al-quraan ITSELF as a subject and that it's a 'tafseel' (a 'what is what', if you like) of al-kitaab (the writ about humankind and its destiny), 38 is a challenge asking the reader to bring a coherent discourse like it. Therefore if anyone feels he or she can write something about the human being and his existence and essence, he or she can bring it forward for a direct comparison with al-quraan.
In my experience and to use Enquirer's phraseology, its entirely subjective; after reading a significant number of texts attempting to explain the human being, I have yet to encounter anything like al-quraan.
-
Peace Mquran. If the view that the quran is the best discourse available/produceable is subjective,then what does the challenge mean? Surely a challenge would produce a somewhat objective conclusion,otherwise why issue a challenge based on subjectivity...?
-
PhSo isn't it possible that some might see the quran as the ultimate "discourse" while someone may not?
It's actual, not possible. You can see for yourself here.
What is the standard with which we judge other "man made" surahs?
Conformity to the al-kitaab , i.e the writ about the being of man. Man's reality, as it were.
and what is the meaning of "quran"?
Recitation or declaration.
-
Peace Mquran. If the view that the quran is the best discourse available/produceable is subjective,then what does the challenge mean? Surely a challenge would produce a somewhat objective conclusion,otherwise why issue a challenge based on subjectivity...?
It's subjective but who are the subjects? People who accept al-quraan as divine and those who do not. I accept its divinity and every read and discussion I have produces an enhancement of my experience of al-quraan. In my universe, it's objective, you might say. Of course, I appreciate in your universe, your 'subjectivty' is objective.
-
Peace mquran. My subjectivity is not always objective...I can make mistakes and have incomplete oversights as well...
What is the purpose of the challenge if it is addressed to people who do not believe in the quran,and so is just an subjective opinion to them? -
peace.
Mquran, i really like your evaluation of it, and i have no problem accepting this as the challenge. I do however stand side with enquirer and phoenix on this. What good is a challenge that can only be subjectively measured.
-
Peace mquran. My subjectivity is not always objective...I can make mistakes and have incomplete oversights as well...
What is the purpose of the challenge if it is addressed to people who do not believe in the quran,and so is just an subjective opinion to them?The challenge is addressed to those 'fee raib' (in doubt - see 2/23), not to those whose eyes, ears and hearts have been sealed. So the possibility of convincing them is there.
-
Why are you standing with just Enquirer and Phoenix? I actually agreed with them. The 'objectivity' as per usage of al-quraan comes during our hour/moment. That's when we know what is right and wrong.
i read you the wrong way. i correct myself.
-
peace magi,
I did? ???
I think i would like to read that aswell ;D??? false memory may be ;D
i am still searching for that thread if i find it i will post the linkmeanwhile check this link.
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/peace.
-
The Quran challenges mankind to bring a (one) surah like it (223 and 103
Khalifa
If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.Yusuf Ali
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.Pickthal
And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave, then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful."Progressive Muslims"
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."Yusuf Ali
Or do they say, "He forged it"? say "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides God, if it be ye speak the truth!"Pickthal
Or say they He hath invented it ? Say Then bring a surah like unto it, and call on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful."Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say he invented it? Say "Then bring a chapter like it, and call upon whoever you can besides God if you are truthful!"Not satisfied, the Quran further challenges to bring yet another 10 surahs instead of one in precisely the same manner as in 1038
Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated," tell them, "Then produce ten suras like these, fabricated, and invite whomever you can, other than GOD, if you are truthful."Yusuf Ali
Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call whomsoever ye can, other than God!- If ye speak the truth!Pickthal
Or they say He hath invented it. Say Then bring ten surahs], the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!"Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say "He invented it!" Say "Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."If the challenge is not met, then we must acquiesce to the following without being punished
If they fail to meet your challenge, then know that this is revealed with GOD's knowledge, and that there is no god except He. Will you then submit?But then, lo and behold, if the challenge is made, they are sent to hell; so much for the challenge in the first place
As for those who strive to challenge our revelations, they incur Hell.And here is the challenge met for not one but all ten in Arabic (with English translation on some)
http//suralikeit.com/Post any or all translations that exists today including the literal ones (whatever that means), heck bring your own invented one and see if anyone can patch-up the above 3 verses for me in a consistent, coherent and non-contradicting fashion.
If quran is GOD?s words as allegedly claimed, then please clarify the following concerns
- Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-mighty?
- Doesn?t the challenge to bring 10 surahs or even one for that matter, reveal weakness in GOD?s words by itself in which it speaks?
- Why the challenge in the first place? If GOD guides people whomsoever HE wills, then the question of challenge, whether met or not, shouldn?t arise? It seems a forced issue.
- If challenge is not met, then one should believe in it without incurring hell, but when one tries to challenge, one goes straight to hell. Isn?t this called, ?double standards??
- What is the reward for meeting the challenge and why?
- Why the contradiction and inconsistency?
- Once again, 8015 comes into play, as elaborated earlier.
NOTE ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.?
-
Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations.
Peace
-
Who is more evil than one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD, or says, "I have received divine inspiration," when no such inspiration was given to him, or says, "I can write the same as GOD's revelations?" If only you could see the transgressors at the time of death! The angels extend their hands to them, saying, "Let go of your souls. Today, you have incurred a shameful retribution for saying about GOD other than the truth, and for being too arrogant to accept His revelations.
Peace
Im sure you feel very clever now. However it does in no way apply to anyone, or anything in this thread. The challenge was met, but as its an empty challenge with no judge untill its too late. What is it worth? zero, nothing at all!
Peace