why is shirk an unforgivable offence decreed by the creator?
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Dear all
Why does the creator insist upon shirk as the only unforgivable offence, if maintained till death? surely he is God almighty, the most powerful , far above the typical human egoistic attitudes. But this sounds like any man in power trying to prove his authority. If he plans judging the individual's performances fairly, he should not mind somebody thinking otherwise while he or she does correct things in this world, Buddies this assertion of God has puzzled me since long and I have not been able to make sense of it, but as he has stressed upon it so much, there has to be some thing very technical about it, which has nothing to do with this life, think about the phrase TILL DEATH.
Could somebody provide me the correct piece of jigsaw puzzle?
SikandarPeace mate
the answer is very simple, Allah only created us NOT TO BE MISHRIKOON, He would have been able easy to achive that but instead He gave us the freewill and put us in the driving seat instead of being compulsed to worship Him as many other creatures are (no freewill)
therefore whoever violate the main objective of creating us must be doomed, it makes great sense to me, I will show you later where Allah told us that He created us for that reaosn only, not to enjoy this testing life indeed
Salam
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Peace simple. I appreciate certain relative classifications,yes,but not absolute,unrealistic ones...
There are accidental manslaughters too,are these murders too?... Also shouldnt we have VERY,VERY realistic good evidence before we classify someone as a murderer? If a person commits a murder when he was 19,and then repents and turns his life around,is he still a murderer? There are ways of dealing with murderers,criminals,etc...But too go around calling them 'murderers,criminals etc...Is not always the most productive approach...better to imprison,educate and try to rehabilitate them....Yes/no?
peace... group Ps;dont think im soft on crime...I have three boisterous sisters... elektroBr according to my understanding of the quran and 95, if the people change they are forgiven and no longer classed as criminals/murders.There isn't a permanant label - its only while such actions last or the people don't change or arn't willing to change.
But saying that you don't wipe off their records of the past they will remain for ever but as a records.And they will suffer in the hereafter if they havn't repented as they should have.
God Blessings.
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Peace
118- And if your Lord had pleased He would certainly have made people a single nation, and they shall continue to differ.
119- Except those on whom your Lord has mercy; and for this did He create them; and the word of your Lord is fulfilled Certainly I will fill hell with the jinn and the men, all together.
(11
(119)
Salam
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Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumu faoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohum waohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadinfa-in taboo wa aqamoo alssalatawaata woo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum innaAllaha ghafoorun raheemun
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the shirkists wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Are we sure that aqamoo als salawaat is their establishingregular prayers?
It is true that they repent now but repent only being active agressors. However, they do not repent being unbelievers; they are still unbelievers and they still refuse to pray like believers.
So how come we expect unbelievers to establish regular prayers despite the fact that they still deny that regular prayers are worth establishing?
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
peace
how would you like to raise a child and do everything for that child, and find out in the end them thanking his mother, who was never there for him/her? Idol-worship is unfair, and those who commit it (even out of ignorance) are hiding a disease in their hearts (unless they repent and reform). They are not devoting themselves to God. They are praising dead messengers who can't hear or see anything.
He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.
Perfect example of how unfair idol worshp is.
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Fa-itha insalakha al-ashhuru alhurumu faoqtuloo almushrikeena haythu wajadtumoohum wakhuthoohum waohsuroohum waoqAAudoo lahum kulla marsadinfa-in taboo wa aqamoo alssalatawaata woo alzzakata fakhalloo sabeelahum innaAllaha ghafoorun raheemun
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the shirkists wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Are we sure that aqamoo als salawaat is their establishingregular prayers?
It is true that they repent now but repent only being active agressors. However, they do not repent being unbelievers; they are still unbelievers and they still refuse to pray like believers.
So how come we expect unbelievers to establish regular prayers despite the fact that they still deny that regular prayers are worth establishing?
Peace,
Hasan AkcaySalaat isn't a prayer but comittments/advices/discussions for the betterment and mushriks arn't those who say God has a son in this case but they are Thalimeen/wrongdoers/oppressers .
But would love your opinion on Cristians and jews not being mushriks by label but if they do thalimeen acts only then are they mushriks-my above post.
Salaams.
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Peace simple. Agree with most of your reply to my post br... bravo yay
One question though...Is the hearafter just after we die,or is akhirah applied to any future time/consequences (including before death.)...? -
Peace,
Dear Siki, are you well again? I hope so. To me idol-worship is a sin as it is the greatest lie on earth. It is not that God is jaleous, but that you will form your deeds based on the idols, and so will live a real lie. This is the crime you commit to yourself. Shirk is denying reality. It is like saying you have ten arms, instead of two, because of this, you will never make full use of the two you have. All the laws of this creation are based on that there is only One God as authority, if you don't follow this truth, you cannot fully grasp all the truth's of this creation. It was like when people believed the earth is flat, all of their maps and inventions were based on this idea and so caused them to be 'stuck' because of this false-hood. They didn't make any progress. Only after they acknowledged the earth being round and not the center of the universe did the people make inventions and maps that worked and created progress. So shirk is based on living the truth for your own benefit as 'le illeh il Allah' is the biggest truth of this Reality. When you base your life and understanding on this, you will be on the road of progress.....
Read this little article on shirk which i agree with
MEANING OF 'SHIRK' CHANGED
'Shirk' is a comprehensive term. Idol worship is its
simplest form. In fact, people worship idols because
they think these got the power to changes their
destiny. However, it is an inferior thinking of man.
God has created man as superior being among many of
His creatures (1770). It is not proper for him to
submit to anyone who are either inferior to him (idols
or his lowly desires) or who are mortal beings like
him self (priest and rulers). Man should submit
himself to the authority of God alone. He is the
creator and He knows what the purpose of man's
creation is? (6714). Therefore, no one could think
better than God what is best for man. When Quran says;
" authority belongs to God..." (657) or when God
condemn 'Shirk' as the biggest and un-pardonable crime
(3113;44, it does not mean that God dislikes
deities and asserts Himself as a sovereign. He is far
above emotions and far above what we associate with
Him. If man associates hundreds of deities, it does
not affect God's sovereignty in the universe.
Secondly, He Himself has condemned compulsion in
'Al-Deen' (2256). So, how could He threat or force
human beings against their will, to follow a
particular path? Actually, these admonitions are meant
to inculcate the truth that man can accomplish his
goals by no other means except God's laws. He can
reach his destination by following God's path alone.
Therefore, the real 'shirk' is not the worship of
idols or deities but it is the following of paths
other than the one, which God has recommended. These
paths (in other words, various man-made systems)
misguide man and take him far away from his
destination (4116). Values and principles in man-made
systems are not enough to guide man in the right
direction. By following man-made systems, he cannot
emancipate from animal-instincts and lowly desires; He
cannot rise to become a noble and dignified human
being. It is possible only by following the value
system of the Quran (2885). It is stated in the
Quran"God wants to raise man to the exalted ranks of
humanity through the value system of the Quran. But,
man follows the earthly desires which eventually
brings him low to the position of beasts and worse."
(7176). This downfall is exclusively attributed to
'Shirk' in another verse, which reads as follow;"Hunafaa lillahe ghaira Mushrikeena beh - Being true
in faith to God, and never assigning partners to Him -
Wa manyushrik billahe - if anyone assigns partners to
God - Fa ka ann ma kharra minusamai - he is as if he
had fallen from heavens - Fa takhtafh-o-tairo au
tahvee behir reeho fi makanin saheeq - and been
snatched up by birds, or the wind had swooped and
thrown him into a far-distant place." (2231)God's given value system grooms human personality. It
imparts enlightenment, and excellence of taste through
intellectual and aesthetic training. It provides him
protection against the spontaneous forces of nature
and the society.Accordingly, we conclude that real 'Shirk' is to
follow values and principles, which are against the
Quran. The real 'Shirk' is to follow the systems,
which are based on non-Quranic values and principles.
Quran has emphatically stated"La yushrik fi hukmehee ahada - God does not share His
Command (values & principles) with anyone whatsoever".
(1826)This definition of 'Shirk' is much more important and
practically related with the welfare of the society.
If understood rightly and taken care of, it would have
liberated the masses from the evil's systems, which
exploit national resources and man's labor to
safeguard the interests of privileged classes against
the common man's interests. The masses would have
never submitted to such systems because submission to
these man-made systems is no less a big crime than
'Shirk'. But the religious scholars did not pay due
attention on this concept and laid undeserved emphasis
in condemning idol's worship as a form of 'Shirk'.
They diverted the focus of attention of the people
from a dangerous and fatal form of 'Shirk' towards a
simple and harmless form of 'Shirk'. Consequently, as
earlier said, the Muslim masses can tolerate and bow
their heads before any evil ruler no matter how much
his rule is against the rule of God's Will; they can
live in any man-made system no matter how much its
values and principles are degraded and against the
noble values of the glorious Quran, but they would
never tolerate bowing before an idol. They hated
idol's worship like they hate pigs whereas idols has
no power either to harm or to benefit them. The
religion's opium has worked rightly on them. They
forgot their primary obligations to strive hard
against ignorance, poverty, and undemocratic values.
They never realized that idols of human desires are
worst than stone's idols. These noble ideas never
touched them but they dream to be known as
'Butshikan'. They have become the true embodiment of
what the Quran said in this verse"And most of them believe not in God without
associating (others as partners) with Him". (12106)MEANING OF 'IBADAH' CHANGED
When 'illah' came to be misinterpreted; "The one who
is worshiped", instead of, "The one who is the ruler",
and 'Shirk' came to be misinterpreted; "To associate
idols in the worship of God", instead of, "To
associate others in the rule of God" then, naturally,
the meaning of 'ibadah' has to be misinterpreted; "The
worship of God", instead of, "The rule of God". This
change in the meanings of words along with the
introduction of other non-Quranic concepts such as
'The concept of recitation' and 'The concept of five
pillars' had played a key role in the transformation
of 'Al-Deen' into religion.The Quran has given a very clear concept of 'ibadah'.
It simply means "obedience to God's command". In
verse (18110) it says; "wa la yushrik be-ibadateh
rabbehe ahada - nor does he associate anyone in
'ibadah' of his God. And in verse (1826) it says; "wa
la yushrik fi hukmehe ahada"- nor does He share His
Command with any person whatsoever". These verses have
clearly defined the relation between 'hukm' and
'ibadah' and left no room for confusing 'ibadah' with
worship. Neither God wants to share His Command with
anyone nor His Messenger like to obey anyone except
God.The concept of worship (Ibadah) is alien to 'Al-Deen'.
It is a creation of religion. 'Al-Deen' is a
goal-oriented system, which follows certain rules and
principles. It is not a dogma but a guide to practice.
Whatever, it claims or promises for the welfare of
people that is concrete and achievable in this world.
On the contrary, religion consists of beliefs and
dogmas based on wistful thinking of those people who
fail to establish God's Authority against the
authority of oppressive forces in the society. While
the followers of 'Al-Deen' sacrifice their persons and
goods to win the blessings and the pleasure of God
(9111) the religious folks have nothing to please Him
in this world except to offer their praises and
prayers (worship).We may not know when? And where? The transformation of
'Al-Deen' into religion took place because social and
cultural changes are evolutionary in nature and
difficult to monitor. These are, like a clock's hour
needle, remain in motion invisibly for a long period
of time before they become mature and attain
perfection. However, in the light of above discussion,
we are certain that Islam is no more 'al-Deen'.
Although, we call it 'Al-Deen' but everywhere it is
practiced as religion.A religion cannot prove its truthfulness nor it can
prove its superiority over other religions. Firstly,
all religions are based on fear and ignorance.
Secondly, they do not have concern with the management
of worldly affairs such as politics and economy. The
primary subject of religion is spirituality. In this
regard, in order to see which one is true and
superior, one has to wait till doomsday. On the
contrary, a system has to prove its worth in this
world. It is based on well-defined principles and
policies. Its results and achievements are concrete
and comparable. For example, when a system promises
social justice it has to deliver it. Islam as a system
had remained very successful. Islamic state was the
embodiment of peace and justice. It had delivered all
the goods to its people. But when Islam reduced to
religion it became a pandemonium of chaos, confusion,
and contradictions. It failed badly to deliver what it
claimed. This situation persisted till now and will
continue to persist till Islam is redefined as a
system.We have pointed out earlier that there are many
contradictions found in Islam. Muslims believe in
unity but they are the most disunited folks in the
world. They believe in fraternity but they are not
fraternal to each other. They believe in peace but
known to others as terrorists. They believe in human
equality and dignity but these noble values are
nowhere found in Muslims' societies. These and many
other contradictions are found in Islam because it is
not practiced as a values system. What the Muslims are
practicing in the name of Islam that is purely a
religion consisting mostly of biblical dogmas and
Zoroastrian junk. It has very little, if any,
teachings from the Quran or the life of the Prophet
(pbuh). Therefore, when we talk about the failure of
Islam, in fact, we talk about the failure of Islam as
a religion.Dear Readers; this is just a brief review of a Great
Tragedy. A tragedy which turned a system of great
values and principles into dust of religious dogmas
and rituals. This unwanted transformation brought in
its fold many drastic consequences to the Muslims
world. The most prominent was the curse of
factionalism and sectarianism. Al-Deen-al-Islam, which
during the first half-century of its foundation, have
worked as a coherent and dominant system on the map of
the world got divided into secular Islam and religious
Islam. This division never stopped. The secular Islam
got further divided into various political and
cultural factions and the religious Islam got divided
into various religious sects such as sunni, and shia.
Clash of Interests, which is an essential outcome of
sectarianism, took them into its bloody grip and the
scourge of mutual vengeance became their destiny.
(665)To sum up, I would say that if the Muslims want to
redeem the past glory of Islam; if they want to see
Islam triumphant in the world; if they want to enjoy a
self-satisfied life under Islam then they have to
redefine Islam as a system. For, it is the system,
which can deliver these good to them - not religion.Wa ma 'alaina illal balagh
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Peace Siki, All
If one has full fainth in Allah, then that question of "why shirk is the only unforgivable sin" would make sense to him/her.. IF they are half-heartedly have faith in Allah and the rest of their "crooked" trust they would put in a god of their own making, then why should they care what is Allah's position of Shirk? As they have already put their trust in a god they made because trust cannot be divided.
It is such a daring act to face Allah with. What is the excuse of the mushrik? Have you ever asked a mushrik for his reason to turn his back to Allah? -
Peace
To add to sister Taj comment on why the believers have no problem comprehending why Allah will not forgive Shirk, simply it relates to the solid knoweldge of Allah that those believers posses, one of these knoweldges the believers know about Allah is simply , ALLAH DOES WHAT HE WANTS
Verily Allah will admit those who believe and work righteous deeds, to Gardens, beneath which rivers flow for Allah carries out all that He wants.
(14)
Therefore those true believers can't not question the morality of His desire to not to forgive those who shirk because simply this is WHAT HE WANTS and HE WILL DO WHAT HE WANTS
Salam
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Peace Ahmed, All,
one of these knoweldges the believers know about Allah is simply , ALLAH DOES WHAT HE WANTS
That statement does not fit here. I will explain why. Allah does what he wants, of course, and giving us, humans, the brains and the freedom of choice is part of what Allah wants.
We do what we want because Allah gave us that right. Allah wants humans to think and to understand and to believe in HIM and trust Him fully based on that freedom and logic and knowledge and not to believe based on blind faith. That is why the Quran calls for contemplating and studying the Ayat in the horizons and in our own creation.
Allah's punishment is not a VITO thing. VITO and doing what you do because you want to do it, is equal to dictatorship.
Allah does not want us to do things based on "Allah wants so". 3ibadah based on brainwashing is not a 3ibadah. Only a dictator like Fir3oun would demand such an act from his people..
Fir3oun (Pharaoh) would do what he wants "because simply this is WHAT HE WANTS and HE WILL DO WHAT HE WANTS"."O my People! Yours is the dominion this day Ye have the upper hand in the land but who will help us from the Punishment of God, should it befall us? " Pharaoh said "I but point out to you that which I see (myself); Nor do I guide you but to the Path of Right!"
Allah wants people to be aware of their good deeds as well as their sins and how much it will cost them and why, so that they will not have the hujja/argument/excuse to argue with Allah in JD. They will still argue nevertheless!
Because Allah is Just, each of us will have his/her chance to defend their acts, and guess what we will end up agreeing to our punishment. Our punishment will be clear and just to us with our own admission! Mushriks will know and will agree to be deserving of their punishment. No one then will dare say "Oh but God, You are unjust! Why are You using the VITO against us poor helpless humans!? Why are You doing what You are doing just because You want to do it?" No one will dare say that because sinned ones will know and it will be clear to them that they are deserving of their penalty. All is clear then and is clear from this Dunyah already. One has only to think and realize their actions, the reasons and the consequence of their actions.
In JD, we will be given the chance to be our own judge, and our judgment to our own actions will be all just!
(14
(And it will be said unto him) Read thy Book. Thy soul sufficeth as reckoner against thee this dayCan their be more justice than that? Mushriks should prepare their own arguments because they will need it in front of Allah in JD. And be sure that they will end up throwing themselves in Hell with their own admission. They will see that their "gods" will disown them and there will be no gates open except those of Hell. After all, that was their own choice!
Therefore those true believers can't not question the morality of His desire to not to forgive those who shirk because simply this is WHAT HE WANTS and HE WILL DO WHAT HE WANTS
Now, after all this being said, why Allah desire not to forgive the mushriks, is yes, because Allah wants so but why? The answer is something of Ghayb, but be sure that it is all just.
Wa Ssalam..
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Peace simple. Agree with most of your reply to my post br... bravo yay
One question though...Is the hearafter just after we die,or is akhirah applied to any future time/consequences (including before death.)...?Well i do hope for a hereafter , but of course it does definately apply to the future time Br.
God Bless.
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And what an article Arnold - very admirable.
God Bless.
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Peace Ahmed,
Peace sister
one of these knoweldges the believers know about Allah is simply , ALLAH DOES WHAT HE WANTS
That statement does not fit here. I will explain why.
sure
Allah does what he wants, of course,
Exactly, that is what the verse said and what I said, I NEVER ADDED A WORD, it is as boldly as you can get, HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS, when He does and what He wants is the not the issue here, the issue is HE DOES WHAT HE WANTS
and giving us, humans, the brains and the freedom of choice is part of what Allah wants.
fine with me, exactly as not forgiving the mushrikoon, He does what He wants
We do what we want because Allah gave us that right.
Not sure if it is called right rather it is called freewill, we have no rights on our God, whatever He wants to do with us He can with ease, He does what He wants
Allah wants humans to think and to understand and to believe in HIM and trust Him fully based on that freedom and logic and knowledge and not to believe based on blind faith.
Fine with me but that is also covered under He does what He wants
That is why the Quran calls for contemplating and studying the Ayat in the horizons and in our own creation.
What Ayat exactly?, the araiv word can mean more than one thing
Allah's punishment is not a VITO thing.
Did I say that?, well, if doing what you want is called VITO? I donlt no, VITO sounds like objection to me
VITO and doing what you do because you want to do it, is equal to dictatorship.
Wow sister, you need to explain the following then
106- So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it
107- Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.
108- And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off.
(106)
(107)
(10-> Verse 106 is telling us about those who will be the hell dwellers ? So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it?
-> Verse 107 is telling us the those unhappy ones ? Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?, see, they will abide in hell except as Allah desires, then the verse ended with the same thing, Allah does what He wants ? surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends?
-> Even those who will enter the garden and be happy will abide therein unless Allah desires to take them out as we read in 108? as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?
The bottom line as the verses are telling us Allah does what He wants even if it makes no sense to us because He told us the in both cases of the hell and garden dwellers that they will abide therein unless He desires not
Allah does not want us to do things based on "Allah wants so".
You are the one who saying that not me, I never suggested that, ALL I SAID< ALLAH DOES WHAT HE WANTS AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE QURAN TOLD US< PLEASE SISTER DONLT TWIST MY WORDS
3ibadah based on brainwashing is not a 3ibadah. Only a dictator like Fir3oun would demand such an act from his people..
Fir3oun (Pharaoh) would do what he wants "because simply this is WHAT HE WANTS and HE WILL DO WHAT HE WANTS"."O my People! Yours is the dominion this day Ye have the upper hand in the land but who will help us from the Punishment of God, should it befall us? " Pharaoh said "I but point out to you that which I see (myself); Nor do I guide you but to the Path of Right!"
not relevant really, but thanks anyway
Allah wants people to be aware of their good deeds as well as their sins and how much it will cost them and why, so that they will not have the hujja/argument/excuse to argue with Allah in JD.
Any quran verses to support your statement, I;m not saying it is wrong, but I always like Quran statement when people talk about Allah, cheers
They will still argue nevertheless!
sure
Because Allah is Just, each of us will have his/her chance to defend their acts,
Not sure is this will be granted to everyone, I?m sure that many will not be able to say a word on the JD as the Quran told us, in fact everyone will have a ?Saiq and Shahid? and Saiq means ?driver? i.e. we will be driven like cars and we will have no control as we will not be the drivers then
and guess what we will end up agreeing to our punishment.
I agree on that, but the question by the poster is not agreeing on it on the JD, I believe he wants to understand it in this life
Our punishment will be clear and just to us with our own admission! Mushriks will know and will agree to be deserving of their punishment.
I agree
No one then will dare say "Oh but God, You are unjust! Why are You using the VITO against us poor helpless humans!?
Not sure if the word VITO applies here, as well you said they will be given a chance to defend themselves so saying as such is a sort of defence and yet you say no one will dare to say it, unless you mean some other defences?
Why are You doing what You are doing just because You want to do it?" No one will dare say that because sinned ones will know and it will be clear to them that they are deserving of their penalty.
No defence will be required then, the matter is very well settled, why you suggested that they will be given a chance to defend themselves then?
All is clear then and is clear from this Dunyah already. One has only to think and realize their actions, the reasons and the consequence of their actions.
In JD, we will be given the chance to be our own judge, and our judgment to our own actions will be all just!
(14
(And it will be said unto him) Read thy Book. Thy soul sufficeth as reckoner against thee this dayso being a judge means that we will have no chance to defend ourselves because we will convict ourselves, right?
Can their be more justice than that? Mushriks should prepare their own arguments because they will need it in front of Allah in JD.
What argument exactly if they will not dare to say anything?
And be sure that they will end up throwing themselves in Hell with their own admission. They will see that their "gods" will disown them and there will be no gates open except those of Hell. After all, that was their own choice!
Great, that is what I think as well
Therefore those true believers can't not question the morality of His desire to not to forgive those who shirk because simply this is WHAT HE WANTS and HE WILL DO WHAT HE WANTS
Now, after all this being said, why Allah desire not to forgive the mushriks, is yes, because Allah wants so but why? The answer is something of Ghayb, but be sure that it is all just.
Great, I never tried to crack that Ghayb regarding Allah will and all I said ?He does what He wants? I never suggested why and when "I used what He said about Himself" to others but it seems you did from all the above comment, thank you sister
cheers
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AHMAD QUOTED.
Verse 106 is telling us about those who will be the hell dwellers ? So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it?
-> Verse 107 is telling us the those unhappy ones ? Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?, see, they will abide in hell except as Allah desires, then the verse ended with the same thing, Allah does what He wants ? surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends?
-> Even those who will enter the garden and be happy will abide therein unless Allah desires to take them out as we read in 108? as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?
The bottom line as the verses are telling us Allah does what He wants even if it makes no sense to us because He told us the in both cases of the hell and garden dwellers that they will abide therein unless He desires not
Ahmad ,, very intresting indeed.....i also think so ...
what is a jinn? ,,,,,a fallen angel . i suppose
and what is an angel? ,,,, probably a passed program from the previous ACADEMYlet us try and think about question now....remember he says TILL DEATH.
SO LOOKS LIKE THERE IS NO ETERNAL PARADISE. if we do well , we may move on to a better place ,but then we shall have to continue proving our worth to stay on
Ahmad , thanks for providing the missing piece for another glitch in my mind
peace sikandar -
Peace,
Dear Siki, our dear AB forgot to post this important part
- Those who are blessed will be in Paradise, where they will dwell so long as heaven and earth survive, unless your Lord wills otherwise This will be a gift uninterrupted.
So, it does go on, only how is for us to find out.......
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Peace,
Dear Siki, our dear AB forgot to post this important part
- Those who are blessed will be in Paradise, where they will dwell so long as heaven and earth survive, unless your Lord wills otherwise This will be a gift uninterrupted.
So, it does go on, only how is for us to find out.......
Peace bro
are you sure I forgot?
in fact I posted all 11108 in my comment, in my walk through I didn't, can you please chaeck again
also I'm not saying that Allah said He will take them out of paradise, what I said that Allah said the garden dwellers will dwell there unless Allah will otherwise,
my comment was not about He will or He will not, it was about Him saying He does what he wants and we "the creatures" can't question His desires
peace
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excuse me, i only read what siki posted, i thought he copied it all.......
And i agree with your above comment.
Peace
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AHMAD QUOTED.
Verse 106 is telling us about those who will be the hell dwellers ? So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it?
-> Verse 107 is telling us the those unhappy ones ? Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?, see, they will abide in hell except as Allah desires, then the verse ended with the same thing, Allah does what He wants ? surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends?
-> Even those who will enter the garden and be happy will abide therein unless Allah desires to take them out as we read in 108? as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please?
The bottom line as the verses are telling us Allah does what He wants even if it makes no sense to us because He told us the in both cases of the hell and garden dwellers that they will abide therein unless He desires not
Ahmad ,, very intresting indeed.....i also think so ...
Peace bro
It is indeed interesting to know the God Who is dealing with us and the verses clearly state that He does what He wants
what is a jinn? ,,,,,a fallen angel . i suppose
this was discussed numerous times on here man, try to search and find and see for yourself what you will feel comfortable with, for me and according to the Quran the Jinns are
- Another creature created from fire by Allah
- Satan is one of them and somehow he was up there ?where Adam was? when Adam was created
- Satan is the leader of them and his wish was granted to stay alive till the judgment day to prove to Allah that the humans didn?t deserve to be prostrated to by him
- Satan and his progeny ?not all of them? will do their best to flaw the humans
- The jinns have also freewill like the humans ?I?m only aware of these two creatures to have freewill?
- The jinn are required to worship Allah exactly like the humans are required, both were created for that reason only
- The jinn have superior power and abilities compared to the humans
The jinns can see the humans but the humans can?t see them, but some humans can succeed in communicating with the jinns, but if they do succeed then the jinns will make their life even harder
That is as far as I can remember from the Quran, they are two far from being fallen angels, because Allah has praised all the angels in His quran and told us clearly that Iblis was one from the Jinns
and what is an angel? ,,,, probably a passed program from the previous ACADEMY
well, we can only find answers in the Quran, the angels were described many times in the Quran and here is what I can remember
- They are too many
- Their leader is Gebril ?The Arch Angel?
- They have wings
- They have awesome power and abilities that are superior to the Jinns
- They have no free will and they do what Allah orders them
- They have no knowledge and they know what Allah told them
- They act like the army of Allah, in fact they were described as such in the Quran ?Junud?
A few names from them are ?Gebril, Israfil, Michael and Malik?
And that is what I can remember, and that is what I really need to know in this test
let us try and think about question now....remember he says TILL DEATH.
SO LOOKS LIKE THERE IS NO ETERNAL PARADISE.
No, sure there is eternal paradise As Allah told us because the verse I posted 11108 is only talking about an exception of those dwellers ?NOT ALL OF THEM?
if we do well , we may move on to a better place ,but then we shall have to continue proving our worth to stay on
only in this life, not the hereafter, 11107-108 as I believe are only to highlight the ultimate Mashiaah ?desire? that Allah have, but Allah does not break His promises for sure
Ahmad , thanks for providing the missing piece for another glitch in my mind
peace sikandarTo be honest bro, I don?t know what was the glitch so far, but I?m happy that I helped indirectly in resolving that glitch as long as you really understood my comment
Peace be with you mate
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Peace All
I would like to add another comment
My comment that Allah can?t be questioned was not an emotional sort of one coming out of a sort of a believer rather it was what Allah told us about Himself, I have to warn my brothers and sisters NOT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ALLAH THAT HE NEVER SAID ABOUT HIMSELF, this is a great sin in the Quran and Allah has warned against it big times then called those who insist on saying assumptions about Allah, Liars, here is the verse where Allah told us that HE CAN?T BE QUESTIONED
YUSUFALI He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs).
PICKTHAL He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.
SHAKIR He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be questioned.(23)
-> Well, what can I say??..hmmmmmm
Let?s get ready to rumble
Salam all