Holographic Paradigm
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Peace Lotetree,
Indeed it is exciting as science, though still not in the mainstream, is opening it's doors to open-ended possibilities. This, to me, is wonderful in the sense that a scientific approach is being used in studying natural phenomenon. Science is, in effect, bridging the gap to spirituality, albeit, in a counterculture sort of way. This id due in part to the acceptance of a holographic universe.
So Tay, if everything is interconnected then what does Micheal Talbot say about the meaning of life and death in this holographic universe?
Would it be merely changing of perception?
Regards,
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Peace LoteTree,
Just to be clear, Talbot compiled the information in his book. He's taken case studies and experiments, statistics and respected opinions, from all walks of "natural" and "unnatural" phenomenon, and plugged them into the holographic paradigm. He often leave concepts without conclusion, only providing the referenced evidence for the reader to draw their own conclusions.
So, to answer your question
what does Micheal Talbot say about the meaning of life and death in this holographic universe?
Would it be merely changing of perception?When you say "meaning", we are getting into the "why" of things, which is only touched on, if I recall correctly, in the chapter on reincarnation. He goes to great lengths to neither endorse nor deny the possibility of reincarnation, but he does put forward some very interesting evidence in favor of it, such as children remembering some remote details and happenings that they would not have been privvy to. But I have my own understanding of these phenomena and that's another story entirely.
Nevertheless, the "why" of reincarnation is supposedly for the soul to experience the full range of the human experience. Living poor, rich, healthy, sick, wholistically, artificially, as an activist, as a pragmatist, etc. The soul must go through a certain number of phases in order to reach enlightenment. This is clearly reinforced in the Hindu philosophy.
What he does reference throughout the book, and more heavily in the chapter on NDE's, is the need to do "good" and to "love". He found that a large majority of folks who survive the near death experience find it to be life changing. Stock brokers quit their jobs and find more meaningful careers. People call everyone they know and express their feelings and forgiveness, and ask the same in return. They focus on what's really important, as opposed to what they thought was important, but turned out to be meaningless.
The NDE gives the best understanding, I feel, of the leap from physical life to physical death. Descriptions such as "beautiful music unlike anything I've ever heard", and "bliss beyond words", and "knowing things instantaneously, without dialogue, just by seeking this knowledge", are commonplace among those who've experienced the NDE. Sadly, little of this knowldge comes back with them, only the memories of the experience.
And he referenced a 1981 Gallup Poll that stated 8 million Americans had experienced an NDE. In fact, George Gallup Jr., the president of the Gallup Poll, stated
"A growing number of researchers have been gathering and evaluating the accounts of those who have had near-death encounters. And the preliminary results have been highly suggestive of some sort of encounter with an extradimensional realm of reality. Our own extensive survey is the latest in these studies and is also uncovering some trends that point to a super parallel universe of some sort."Peace,
Tay -
Hello Tay,
Nevertheless, the "why" of reincarnation is supposedly for the soul to experience the full range of the human experience. Living poor, rich, healthy, sick, wholistically, artificially, as an activist, as a pragmatist, etc. The soul must go through a certain number of phases in order to reach enlightenment. This is clearly reinforced in the Hindu philosophy.
I always thought that allowing souls to experience full range of human experiences, intellectually more satisfying. And because of the reality of eternal hell is so terrible, I feel that it is more "just" for a compassionate and loving God to allow individuals infinite number of chances to redeem themselves before they stand before God. But I know apart from a single reference in the Quran, the whole reincarnational path to redemption is not supported by scripture. I wonder if science will ever open the gate to this elusive of all truths...
What he does reference throughout the book, and more heavily in the chapter on NDE's,is the need to do "good" and to "love". He found that a large majority of folks who survive the near death experience find it to be life changing. Stock brokers quit their jobs and find more meaningful careers. People call everyone they know and express their feelings and forgiveness, and ask the same in return. They focus on what's really important, as opposed to what they thought was important, but turned out to be meaningless.
I always felt this need Tay, even from very early age. But love is not easy. People say love is easy. Love seems to be the hardest thing in the world. But I am still struggling to understand love. Some people say love is just another of human emotions. If it just another emotions then it is the Greatest emotion ever but there is more to love than what we can undertand with our human intellect. It seems love pervades the visible and the invisible.
The NDE gives the best understanding, I feel, of the leap from physical life to physical death. Descriptions such as "beautiful music unlike anything I've ever heard", and "bliss beyond words", and "knowing things instantaneously, without dialogue, just by seeking this knowledge",
I have had dreams, dreams which I now understand to be "lucid" dreams in which I heard "most beautiful music" and sometimes "most exhilirating" happiness filled my heart. But these memories seems to fade quickly as opposed to memories experienced by NDE's. The memories of NDE seem to remain vivid throughout the course of their life. Will science ever unlock the higher dimensions to reality? I hope it does...
Regards,
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Peace LoteTree,
I hope all is well.
You stated
I always thought that allowing souls to experience full range of human experiences, intellectually more satisfying.
I'm a bit torn on the topic, as I feel one can experience the full range of the human experience in one day, let alone in one lifetime. At the same time, the anecdotal evidence in support of reincarnation is strong enough to point to some phenomenon, if not reincarnation itself.
I think folks are capable of tapping into the information layer of reality, the sort of library of human experience, and may fool themselves into thinking they've lived passed lives. Thoughts are energy, and energy doesn't disappear.
But it's all speculation at this point. Although reincarnation is an attractive idea, I don't see the 'need' for it, nor the logical progression that would include it.
And because of the reality of eternal hell is so terrible, I feel that it is more "just" for a compassionate and loving God to allow individuals infinite number of chances to redeem themselves before they stand before God.
I agree that a chance for redemption is just, considering the consequences. But I haven't ruled out the idea that perhaps redemption is available in the afterlife itself. In other words, I don't think the idea of reincarnation is the only means of redemption, or even the best way to achieve this redemption.
But I know apart from a single reference in the Quran, the whole reincarnational path to redemption is not supported by scripture
What reference are you speaking of? I smell a new thread.
I always felt this need Tay, even from very early age.
Same here. wink
But love is not easy. People say love is easy. Love seems to be the hardest thing in the world.
Love is easy when we submit to it, when we allow ourselves to love and be loved. It is, I feel, the most natural experience. It makes sense without description.
Love is only difficult when reality interferes.
Some people say love is just another of human emotions.
Love is the only emotion. All emotions stem from love. Anger, hate, lust, jealousy, ambivolence, peace, comfort, humor, etc., all indicate a level of love or lack thereof.
Will science ever unlock the higher dimensions to reality?
As I stated in another thread, there does exist a sort of subculture among scientists that are certainly investigating natural phenomena. Mainstream science may never open it's doors to such unscientific ideas however, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. The rigidity of the scientific method is certainly it's strength. That's what keeps science strong throughout the ages.
But one should not fool themselves into thinking that the scope of science is all-inclusive of the ingredients of reality. Science is a tool for the tangible. As such it is vital to our growth. But it is one tool among many.
Peace,
Tay -
Hello Tay,
I am fine. Thanks. And I hope you are OK.
I'm a bit torn on the topic, as I feel one can experience the full range of the human experience in one day, let alone in one lifetime. At the same time, the anecdotal evidence in support of reincarnation is strong enough to point to some phenomenon, if not reincarnation itself.
I am divided on this too... but I am not sure if I can experience full range of human experience in a single day. There are so many things I would like to do but I don't have the time for it. I would love to abandon this "wage-slave" society that I live in and embark on a wholly contemplative lifestyle. But I know I can't. The Rules of domesticity does not allow me to do this. I am constrained by family commitments, financial resources, health etc. And even though I may able to renounce materialism in my soul but I can't escape the rules of domesticity that ties me to this existence.
The only way I can escape the shackles of modern society is through imaginations. It is through the imaginations that I can "live" out, in some way, a wide range of human experiences. I know perhaps imagination is not a substitute for real experiences. But if we could intellectually and imaginatively "grasp" it then these could be valid "experiences" that can make us spiritually grow?
But there is perhaps another way we could live out a wide range of human experiences and this by empathising with others. If we could feel the pain and joy of another individual in our hearts then we are experiencing that life are we not? If we can empathise with a disabled person then we are experiencing the nature of disability are we not?
And the key to empathising others is cultivating human compassion in ourselves. I think this is the message of all scriptures Compassion. It is compassion that allows us to relate to others and experience their pain and sorrows. So perhaps you are right, there is no "need" for re-incarnational redemption as long as we can empathise with others. As long as we can feel ourselves the pain, sadness and joy of another individual then we are in a sense are experiencing those lives...
What reference are you speaking of? I smell a new thread.
These verses below have been construed by some to echo re-incarnational thought in the scripture. But perhaps it is not convincing enough...
"And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall
cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life,
and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." 228Love is the only emotion. All emotions stem from love. Anger, hate, lust,
jealousy, ambivolence, peace, comfort, humor, etc., all indicate a level of love or
lack thereof.I agree and I am going to stand by it.
But one should not fool themselves into thinking that the scope of science is all-inclusive of the ingredients of reality. Science is a tool for the tangible. As such it is vital to our growth. But it is one tool among many.
Agreed. But if science is using the same "language" of the mystics and religious sages then I think we must take notice. But in the end, I agree, science is a tool for the tangible and not the realm of the intangible that is the realm of the Divine...
Regards,
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Peace Tay. FANTASTIC thread...Yourself and lote-tree at your very best... bravo bravo yay group
I think we should keep this thread going...
One criticism i have of humanism/secularism is that it is sometimes too quick to discount/not give due weight to life after death,nde,esp etc,etc...
I myself am still researching these topics...NDEs','previous lives',reincarnation,time travel etc.. are fascinating topics...
I think we can take knowledge of the past (especially hinduism and buddhism.) along with science (especially 'unorthodox' science.) our personal experiences,and our imagination/intuition to try to unravel these 'mysteries'....
I cannot currently believe that we just 'finish' at death...I believe life is all about evolving to higher levels of conciousness,or going to lower levels of conciousness.( no bad thing,we could be an amoeba in the next life... .) ...maybe we can even just stay reasonably constant with this current 'level' of conciousness of ours...?
Remeber when we were children?.....That same conciousness has now evolved to an adult(hopefully ;D.), with different experiences,and outlooks,but still i can remember and feel the similiarity of my conciousness to what it was when i was a child....Hope you understand that last sentence....Sometimes hard to write down what you actually mean...
Take care,and peace... ps;bring back lote-tree and peaceful-muslim... bravo yay group -
Peace,
Yes, these are the main things in Quantum physics.
I can really recommend Ervin Laszlo's books, type his name at amazon.com. Also the Tao of Physics by Fridja Caprof is really interresting, also The Field by Lynn Mctaggert. I'm reading a lot on this subject as our world has more un-ending possibilties then expected. I have already written a little introduction to some findings. When i get home i will give some more titles i have.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5417.0
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Peace Arnold,
Yes, these are the main things in Quantum physics.
I'm just an infant in this world of knowledge so please bear with my ignorance, but it seems, as I've understood, that Holopraphic Paradigm Theory incorporates Quantum Physics as part of it's whole. The book I mentioned is fascinating because the author has found people in a vast array of fields who were left dumbfounded, but now find that the Holographic principle answers their questions. I highly recommend it.
"The Holographic Universe" Michael Talbot
I can really recommend Ervin Laszlo's books, type his name at amazon.com. Also the Tao of Physics by Fridja Caprof is really interresting, also The Field by Lynn Mctaggert.
I started reading "The Field" thanks to your recommendation. I also picked up "The Quantum World" by Kenneth Ford since I need to backtrack and get up to speed in this field. Perhaps once I get through this bunch I'll pick up "The Tao of Physics" also.
I'm reading a lot on this subject as our world has more un-ending possibilties then expected. I have already written a little introduction to some findings. When i get home i will give some more titles i have.
Yes, the possibilities are exciting. Another field I'm hoping to poke around in is vibrational medicine. I just want to get my bases stronger before I venture off and get lost in the knowledge.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Neo,
what you're referring to is the Quantum Entanglement phenomenon
Are you referring to Aspect's findings?
Einstein predicted it long before 1982
I was always under the impression that Einstein theorized nothing could move faster than the speed of light. In any case, if he predicted it, then that's just another reason to admire the guy.
it doesn't in any shape or form imply that the universe is 'subjective'.
As I mentioned to enquirer, the universe viewed in a reality perspective is certainly objective, ie, the effects of gravity and such. But what these theories imply is in relation to the fabric of the universe. If one can see that subatomic particles remain in instantaneous harmony despite tremendous distance, this implies an interconnection. If the universe is interconnected, then seperation is an illusion, and thus, so is objectivity.
It's my understanding that objectivity is the realm of the mind, of tangible things and happenings. The deeper we delve into the "self", the closer we get to the Source, which is one. There isn't more than one "God's way".
Peace,
Tay -
Peace enquirer,
Peace Tay. FANTASTIC thread...Yourself and lote-tree at your very best...
yay
I think we should keep this thread going...
It's aliiiiive!
One criticism i have of humanism/secularism is that it is sometimes too quick to discount/not give due weight to life after death,nde,esp etc,etc...
I really can't blame science for not giving much thought to what it can't measure. Some of this stuff has been out of the realm of science for so long, it's difficult open the doors back up. What's fascinating to me is that these doors are opening, and what they're finding is the same stuff the spiritual people have been saying all along.
I myself am still researching these topics...NDEs','previous lives',reincarnation,time travel etc.. are fascinating topics...
I think we can take knowledge of the past (especially hinduism and buddhism.) along with science (especially 'unorthodox' science.) our personal experiences,and our imagination/intuition to try to unravel these 'mysteries'....Absolutely. I really recommend picking up this book. It will blow you away bro.
I cannot currently believe that we just 'finish' at death...I believe life is all about evolving to higher levels of conciousness,or going to lower levels of conciousness.( no bad thing,we could be an amoeba in the next life... .)
Yeah, that's where that inner compass comes in. Many or most of us have this innate feeling of something bigger, something more than what our 5 senses reveal.
...maybe we can even just stay reasonably constant with this current 'level' of conciousness of ours...?
Well, as I see it, the soul remains a constant. The mind is what evolves or regresses.
Remeber when we were children?.....That same conciousness has now evolved to an adult(hopefully .), with different experiences,and outlooks,but still i can remember and feel the similiarity of my conciousness to what it was when i was a child....Hope you understand that last sentence....Sometimes hard to write down what you actually mean...
I understand completely. Your soul has not changed, only your mind has. When you trigger the same feelings that you did when you were a child, you will feel the same way. In a sense, we were closer to God when we had less stuff in our minds. The trick is to keep in touch with the soul so that the mind can grow in harmony with God. This way, the mind builds with wisdom and not just knowledge.
Take care,and peace... ps;bring back lote-tree and peaceful-muslim...
If I had that kind of power I would. Unfortunately, all I can do is hope that the changing climate of the forum will call them back.
Peace,
tay -
Peace,
I have read the book, i will give more titles when i get home, plus if you want, i can send some articles and professional scriptures i have on my pc. PM your mail if you want them...
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Einstein said no information can be sent through space faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, so Quantum Entanglement does not violate any of Einstein's laws since you can't send or receive information using the QE phenomneon.
But what these theories imply is in relation to the fabric of the universe. If one can see that subatomic particles remain in instantaneous harmony despite tremendous distance, this implies an interconnection. If the universe is interconnected, then seperation is an illusion, and thus, so is objectivity.
Seperation still exists; the 'interconnection' of subatomic particles only exist until decoherence takes place.
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Peace Neo,
Forgive me, as this stuff is fairly new to me. My understanding of Aspect's research is that subatomic particle A and subatomic particle B reacted simulataneously no matter how far apart they were. Doesn't this imply communication faster than the speed of light?
Seperation still exists; the 'interconnection' of subatomic particles only exist until decoherence takes place.
When does "decoherence" take place?
Peace,
Tay -
Paticles A and B are entangled, therefore any change made to A will appear in B as well. This may seem 'faster-than-light' communication but it's not because when we measure B we unwittingly change its value, so no information is gained by the aforementioned entangled process.
Decoherence basically takes place everytime a subatomic particle has to react with another subatomic particle. This is what turns the bizzare world of the quantum into the more recognizable classical physics.
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Paticles A and B are entangled, therefore any change made to A will appear in B as well. This may seem 'faster-than-light' communication but it's not because when we measure B we unwittingly change its value, so no information is gained by the aforementioned entangled process.
Decoherence basically takes place everytime a subatomic particle has to react with another subatomic particle. This is what turns the bizzare world of the quantum into the more recognizable classical physics.
Peace,
I don't agree totaly with that is not faster then the speed of light as i have a lot records that do show it is faster then the speed of light. This is because in the Quantum Vacuum there are no 'empty' spaces, everything is directly connected, so it doesn't have to travel. Because of this it can go faster then the speed of light..
Peace
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Just cause it's 'connected' it doesn't have to travel? So if city A and city B were connected by a train track, one would not need to travel between the two?
And no, there are PLENTY of empty spaces, even in the quantum world. The universe is mostly empty.
Peace neo,
If the universe is mostly empty, then how are the gravitational or the magnetic fields supported, or propagated in "empty" space? There should be none in "empty space".
Do the "ether" or "dark matter" tell you something?
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What do you mean how are the "gravitational fields supported"? Gravitaiton is caused by the distortion of the spacetime geometry due to mass and is a very long-range force; I don't see how that has any bearing on the universe being mostly empty (as in, mostly devoid of mass). All it implies is that the gravitational force is 'weak'.
Neither Dark energy/matter nor Ether implies that everything is 'connected' and there's no spatial seperation. Spatial seperation is inherent in having a geometric shape, so anything that has mass exhibits 'spatial seperation'. Even if there was an Ether (which I think there is) it wouldn't mean that I am you and you are me and I'm both in London and New Zealand at the same time.