Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Peace arnoldayasin.I have answered many of your posts,but like you,i need multiple proofs as well to convinse me of 'proofs'... To be honest we possibly do have similiar approaches to the world and how we look at it...All i am saying is that to ME and to others,some of these proofs are not objective....Now,you dont have to take that as personal criticism...
That is why i was saying lets clarify what we define as 'objective,subjective and reality...
If you think i run away from questions,or whatever it is i do,then that fine...thats your opinion...Fact is i have given you quite detailed answers back in this thread,i class the quran as containing some truths and wisdom in it,but am trying to highlight why it does not stand as perfect,irrefutable and for all times....yes that is my opinion,as the quran being 'perfect/divine' seems to be yours....I remain open to evidence proving my opinion wrong,but i havent seen convincing evidence yet...
Peace and respect...ps;i really do respect how you and others are trying to come to better translations/interpretations,as i feel this is much-needed in the muslim world...
I feel sometimes that asking tough questions is too much for some people,but this is how
interpretations move forward and are corrected... Take it easy...no hard feelings brother... -
Peace,
peace to you....
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O yeah, to answer your question on why some technology is not mentioned. It is not that the technology saves people, it is the equal share of wealth that saves people, and that is directly outlined in the Quran that wealth must not stay only to one kind of people but equaly distributed. Poverty has nothing to so with technology level, but with sharing of wealth. So that is why it is not explained in the Quran.
I forgot to answer this as i missed that question.
Peace
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Peace all. If people think electricity,internet,new farming techniques and vaccinations that save thousands of lives are 'trivial' or 'hooey',then thats up to their consciences...
And doesnt the quran say it is a complete book,and that nothing is ommited from it...? (6116 and others.)I'm not trying to be mean here but you've really studied the Qur'an for 25 years? I'm just curious because sometimes your posts....well, I'll just leave it at that. )
25 years though? Eek.
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Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here...
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well... -
Gentlemen these all questions were asked with questions like "show me where is the law in Qur'an about speeding and computer hacking". These questions clearly show that how unintelligent and ignorant these people are and it is always wise not to get involved with such type of people.
You can read
Is Quran anti- secular? This thread. You can reach to the same conclusion which is not to get involved in any discussions with such people. Anyone of you who want to read more than there is a Democracy thread. -
Peace KGB and all. I like the way you brand all people asking these 'tough' questions,as ignorant and un-intelligent......Is that approach from the quran? ps; Im sure a verse will be produced to justify this 'lynch' like,defensive mentality...You can find whatever YOUR heart DESIRES from this book... ) Just like your friend bush,justifies his speeches from his god/book...
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Peace all. Anybody want to get back on topic and answer a few questions...?
peace all. -
Peace all. If the quran is a book containing 'irrefutable' science,and is guidance for all times/today,then where are the verses on tv,test tube babies,internet,nuclear power,cloning,automobiles,genetically modified food,transistor radios,ipods,mobile phones,vcrs,electricity,carbon dating,etc,etc...?
This is very conclusive,irrefutable,provable,tangible,easily available,obvious mainstream technology,and cannot all be denied...
Is the book incomplete,did god forget,or is there some other explanation...?
Peace all.You know the quran doesn't contain this info as these things wern't around at the time.
And if that is the only way for God to be merciful - you could even say why doesn't he feed the poor aswell or just remove the need of food e.t.c
The thing of it all is he wants us to be the mercifull one's.
Then indeed he will be over the moon for having created something so subservient -i am sure .(Side joke)
Salaams enquirere.
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Peace Simple. Thanks for the reply. What im trying to say is if its guidance for all times,why does it not mention future technology,when it is claimed it does mention embryology,big bang theory,etc,etc..?.(which were not supposedly known at the time of its revelation..)
I fully agree on the need for HUMANS to be practically merciful...
And please dont misunderstand me,the quran contains SOME great spiritual,moral and scientific principles.....
peace all. -
Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here...
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well...I'm in a dilemma here. On the one hand, I can very easily respond to your post. On the other hand, you'll either a) brush it off and go off on some random tangents or b) ignore it. I don't see what the point is. You may take that as an ad hominem attack; I call it "experience with enquirer." I'll respond, knowing full well it's probably pointless to do so.
Anyway, onto your points
If people think electricity,internet,new farming techniques and vaccinations that save thousands of lives are 'trivial' or 'hooey',then thats up to their consciences...
Talk about a red herring. Where did Nadia say anything about those inventions being hooey? Please provide a direct quote.
And doesnt the quran say it is a complete book,and that nothing is ommited from it...? (6116 and others.)
First, it's 6114-115. Second, from the verses themselves, it is painfully clear that the Kitab is "complete" and "fully detailed" in matters that are important for our spiritual growth/salvation. This is why the verses refer to God's word being complete "in truth and justice." This is why the verses say the Kitab is complete so that we need no one but God as judge/lawgiver. Read the verses. Let me rephrase read the verses without an agenda and take them for what they are worth. Far from us having to "bring out a NEW or DIFFERENT interpretation," this is just plain common sense and reading text within a context.
In all honesty, you're telling me you read those verses and said to yourself, "It says the Kitab is detailed and complete, WHY DOESN'T IT MENTION 27 INCH TELEVISIONS THEN?" I mean, really? Please answer honestly. Don't skirt around this issue. I expect a direct response to my question. When you read those verses, did you really ask yourself why the Qur'an doesn't mention inventions from the 20th century? Is that how you "interpreted" the verses about the Kitab being complete?
Semi-rhetorical questions aside, it is abundantly clear that these verses refer to the Kitab being complete in its purpose. The Qur'an posits itself as a reminder and a guide to mankind for the fundamental growth of the society as well as the individual, both spatio-temporally and spiritually. In that purpose, it is complete. In that purpose, God's words are complete with "truth and justice." In that purpose, it fully explains itself.
It never claimed to have everything about everything ever written in the history of everything. It simply boggles my mind that you even think it could mean that.
Just to beat a dead horse here, I'm going to give an example to reinforce my point
Let's say you buy one of the aforementioned 27 inch televisions (), and it comes with an Operating Instructions Manual. The first page of the manual says "Herein lie the fully-detailed instructions on how to operate the television set you have just purchased." You read the book patiently and finally get to the end of the book. Would you then throw your hands up in the air, and proclaim, "THE BOOK SAID IT'S FULLY-DETAILED. WHY THEN DOESN'T IT MENTION HUMAN CLONING? NUCLEAR PHYSICS? TOYOTA CAMRIES? WHY GOD WHY?"
Is the above question a reasonable one? Is the above question the result of a sane, logical mind? Or is the above question the result of a mind that is trying its absolute hardest to find fault where there is none?
And please don't say the two examples are divergent. Just as the Qur'an claims itself to be a reminder and guide to mankind on how to lead one's life (and in that respect, claims itself to be complete), the Operating Instructions Manual for the TV too claims itself to be a guide on how to use the TV (and in that respect, claims itself to be complete).
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Is the book incomplete,did god forget,or is there some other explanation...?
God did not forget. And the book is not incomplete. If the book claimed to be an encylopedia of every scientific and technological breakthrough from the beginning of time to the end of time, then yes the book would then be incomplete and we could conclusively say that God indeed did "forget." Unfortunately for you, the book never claimed such a thing. )
If the quran is a book containing 'irrefutable' science,and is guidance for all times/today,then where are the verses on tv,test tube babies,internet,nuclear power,cloning,automobiles,genetically modified food,transistor radios,ipods,mobile phones,vcrs,electricity,carbon dating,etc,etc...?
Again, simple use of logic would negate this claim. This is a grave misundertanding about what the "Qur'an has a scientific miraculous aspect to it" camp claims. As far as I know, no one claims the Qur'an to be a galactic scientific encyclopedia. This isn't the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The Qur'an is, first and foremost, a reminder and guide for mankind. With that said, however, it very clearly makes many references to pieces of evidence that are testable and falsifiable by science. It has verses that have a biological, cosmological, geological, etc. aspect to them. This is undeniable.
The science camp make two claims
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none of the Qur'an's references to pieces of data that are testable by science have been falsified by science. E.g. if a verse said that "your Lord has created the cow, with eight stomachs, and therein in a sign for those who are sincere." This would be testable by science. We would dissect a cow, realize it doesn't have eight stomachs, and consequently the Qur'an would be falsified. It would be deemed to have at least one verse that goes against science. So far, no verse has been found to contradict established science. Considering the book was written about 1400 years ago, this in itself should, at the very least, raise your eyebrow.
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some of the very same verses that have scientific aspects to them evidence knowledge that was not known at the time of the Qur'an's writing. To be sure, many (like Harun Yahya) make outlandish claims and forced interpretations on verses to find "miracles." I do not ally myself with such people. But, the existence of these forced interpretations don't preclude the Qur'an from actually containing verses that have miraculous scientific aspects to them. If, for example, the Qur'an refers to a cosmological phenomenon that was not known 1400 years ago, but has now (in the past 100 years) been known to conform with science, we have to ask ourselves, "how did this get in there?" But that's just one piece of datum, and I agree that one piece of datum doesn't a miracle make. But what if other verses make similar references that again were not known 1400 years ago. Over and over again, this happens. At some point, you have to really say to yourself, "ok, something might be going on here. Either the author of this book was the world's luckiest man or there is more to the story."
Sorry for the long exposition. My point is us claiming the Qur'an to have some scientific aspects that are miraculous doesn't mean we expect to find every single scientific thing in the history of mankind in it.
One last thing you asked why it didn't mention these things if it were a "guidance for all times." You yourself answered the question. It is a guidance for all times. I ask you, what do ipods, electricity, etc. have to do with guidance? You can't call the Qur'an contradictory when it doesn't even abide by your assumptions.
You saying ipods, electricity, nuclear physics are components of "guidance" is your own assumption. It is not something the Qur'an claims. You can't then use that assumption and say, "aha the Qur'an claims its a guidance for all times, and yet it doesnt mention X, Y, Z (assumptions I've just made about what the Qur'an should include), therefore the Qur'an contradicts itself."
This reminds me of those Sunnis who say "you follow the Qur'an alone? But it doesn't tell you what side to sleep on." Yes, it doesn't. But that doesn't make it incomplete. That just means the author of the Qur'an didn't find dictating sleep habits to be necessary for one's spiritual growth. Similarly here, the Qur'an claims it is a guidance for mankind and you respond with "but it doesn't talk about ipods." The author of the Qur'an didn't think mentioning ipods would be necessary one's spiritual growth. And you know what, I don't blame him. )
Peace.
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peace enquirer,
Mentioning "modern" technology would make the quran the opposite of timeless. Things used in today's world might not be in use 20 years later.
And mentioning every technology from every era would make the quran as long as some of arnoldyasin's and caveman doctor's posts. No one would read it Not to mention the distraction it would create.
The quran is timeless in many respects. It uses metaphors, allegories to teach us it's message. The objects mentioned are not important, it is what they symbolize. And what they symbolize might change from one generation to another (not exactly sure on this one).
A good example is the story of Adam.And i'm not discussing the divinity of the quran here.
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I apologize for the length Phoenix.
I had to address every claim lest enquirer accuse me of question-dodging or superficial analysis.
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peace
agree with Caveman Doctor(geico commercials really don't do you guys justice .)
The quran is pretty much what it claims to be.Enquirer, even if the quran isn't from God, the person or people who wrote this book were obviously very enlightened and very smart. I don't think he/she/they would write a book that made such a big error. So whenever I see something that doesn't make sense to me, I first assume that it is a mistranslation, or just something I (or we) don't understand yet. And the fact that some things don't make sense immediately points toward a divine origin of some sort.
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I apologize for the length Phoenix. Smiley
I had to address every claim lest enquirer accuse me of question-dodging or superficial analysis.
It's perfectly alright. I did read the post.
I was writing that before you posted and i had only arnoldyasin's name on their, but then i saw yours and I just had to edit it. -
Peace phoenix. I understand your view...However why only a few select discoveries like embryology and honey etc..,that are now discovered,rather than a few universal,categorical discoveries like electricity,automobiles etc?...I dont mind people claiming this science or that science is present in the book,but the bible also has some 'correct' scientific claims from christians...So what does that mean?
And its a problem when a lot of people have different interpretations on different verses...So how can we 'objectively' claim that science is agreeing with the quran,when many dont even agree on the actual meanings of a 'scientific' verse...
Peace all. ps;caveman doctor; I willl respond to your thesis later...
pps; and i never said that the quran was not written by an 'enlightened' fellow....But The enlightened fellow didnt know everthing...Thats for sure... -
peace enquirer,
Mentioning "modern" technology would make the quran the opposite of timeless. Things used in today's world might not be in use 20 years later.
The quran is timeless in many respects.peace brothers,
nice reply phoenix, it's very plausible
and enquirer, if u believe in GOD and Islam, what do u think the coran is?
a harvard science book? i guess u read it over and over, and u read the verse
where GOD says " wa ma Anzalnaho illa thikran lil aalamin "
the purpose of the coran is to lead the people, and the scientific facts mentioned
aim to prove the message of the coran for the people who will come after.
the coran is not a science book, it's "ayatin bayyinat liman yatafakkaroun"
what do u want? that GOD reveals to u all the secrets of the world so u would
be satisfied and convinced???? brickwall -
Peace,
Enquirer, yes the Bible do contain some points, but let's see, you only mention embryology and honey. Let's check the list and compare it with the Bible
1.Big-bang
2.expansion of the universe
3.only skin has nerves that can make you feel burns
4.pollinizing winds
5. all planets and bodies have their own courses
6.perfect explained embryology
7. the male sperm determining the sex
8.the calculated amount of rainfall
9. the forming of rain
10.the water cycle
11.that thunder only comes together with hale
12.sun a light
13.moon a reflector
14.the seven layers of the earths air
15.the earth being egg-shaped
16.the shapes of mountains below the earth
17.the function of mountains
18.where milk is formed
19.that iron came from in nova-stars and was not part of earth's system
20. the two salts seas that not intermingle
21 the salt and sweet water don't mingle
22.the different layers of waves inside large bodies of water
23.the frontal lobe being the place for decisions as lying
24.the uniqueness of the fingerprint
25lowest point on earth
26.evolution confirmed
27.dementia
28. the age of forty being special, as after 39, your memory cells in your brain become less
29.the planets and stars coming out of dust and gas
30.black holes penetrating space-time
31.pulsar-stars giving 'knocking' pulses
32.everything in pairs
33.that the deeper you go, colors disappear from the light spectrum with every amount of water
34.rotation earth
35.space travel
36. oxygen coming from the live tree
37.DNA
38.mixture women eggs and men sperm for creation new human
39. 3 layers womb
40.pharoah's body preserved
41.female bees being the workersAnd i believe i even missed a few.... All this you cannot find in the Bible, and the Bible has contradiction about certain scientific points. Give me one book from that age that contains all this. Plus half of it nobody could have ever known in those times. Frontal lobe being the startplace for lying? live trees producing oxygen?color spectrum of light gets lesser when you get deeper?pulsars? iron being 'send down'? lowest point on earth? finger prints? mountains shape and function?male sperm determining sex? big-bang?expansion of universe? age forty being special? the different layers of waves inside seas? earth being egg-shaped? pollinizing winds? Sorry but there is no-way people could have known that in those times. Some of the things in the list, but all these facts together without one being wrong? no way, and all the things i mentioned here are impossible for people to have known. There is no book on earth that contains all of these facts in those times. And there was no people that knew all this...
When i use occam's razor, there is only one conclusion left......
P.S. i forgot also to mention that the word day occurs 365 times, month 12 times, that the word land occurs 13 times and the word sea 32 times, which together makes it 45, 4513=28.88% which is the amount of dry land on earth, 4532=71,11% is the amount of water on earth. that the malikah and sjeitan both occur 85 times. jesus is compared to adam and both occur 25 times. And there are more... plus a 19 pattern in some surahs.....
Plus a perfect confirming theology of the Nazarenes of Jesus, ingenious sociology, perfect concept of God, ingenious wisdom, call for unity, ingenious laws and advises for society and individuals, it is just to much, and that all in one sort of poem? Oh my God......
I'm done here.....
Peace
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Peace Cavemandoc,
The first time I saw one of your posts was when you were responding to oneway, and though it brings back memories of his avatar and the heebie jeebies it gave me, I always found your posts some of the best I've read on the forum. If I ever want to write a book, I want you to write it for me and kidding aside, thats one of the highest compliments I can give on a forum so post more dammit. In conclusion, I wish to list something that I hope the OP can use for some of his next thread titles
"and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters 'Where God Went Wrong', 'Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes', and 'Who is This God Person, Anyway?'"