Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Regarding 20 words reply its actually is 19 words reply if you exclude the CavemanDoctor. This reply do come after much of consultation between the group. Don't you see that he is trying to change the topic with his usual BS of equalility open minded approach, respect.
These people egos are so big they find it difficult to say sorry I was wrong and accept the truth. I am not told to respect manafiqeen, I am not told to respect people who disrespect Allah (SWT), I am not told to respect people who do not respect Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
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Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
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Peace Elena
Sister really don't want to jump in between you and Arnold Yasin but Ayman reply to me make more sense which is really doesn't matter what language you read the Qur'an if you have faith you are going to get the meaning of the message very clearly.
Ayman reply this to me on Ten Reading thread.
Peace KGB,
Quote from KGB on 2006-05-19, 201056
Thank you for your encouragement. I really get lost when people who have command of the language do not agree on certain words. Please make it simple by coming to a mutual understanding of words. That will help me a lot to reach a definite decision.This just shows that command of the language is not the main criteria for understanding the message.
- And had We made it a non-Arabic reading/"quran", they would have said "Had only its signs been detailed in non-Arabic and Arabic". Say "For those who had faith, it is a guide and healing. As for those who do not have faith there is deafness in their ears and it is blindness on them. These will be called from a place far away."
Now it doesn't matter if you are an Arabic speaker or not, for example, if you hear in 4144 "deafness" and "blindness" and understand them literally then you really haven't understood anything from the message. In fact, the message is full of such idiomatic expressions for intelligent people to ponder on regardless of whether they speak Arabic or not. On the other hand, a superficial person who takes such expressions literally, will not gain anything and the great reading will be blindness on him or her. Such extensive use of allegories levels the field between Arabic and non-Arabic speakers because the literal superficial physical meaning is mostly incorrect.
Peace,
Ayman
My response to this was
Peace Ayman
Thank you for taking time to reply to me. I clearly understand this verse. Blind and deaf is not literal. It simply means that the people who do not have faith in Allah (SWT) will not get the message no matter how many times they read it or hear it.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peace
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Peace,
Yes, KGB, i never refuted that. But that is only with the main picture of the Quran. If you want to go deeper like me, you cannot stay depended on translations alone. But for the main message, yes, translations are enough, of course.
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Peace Arnold Yasin
For me it will be a great achievement when I start to recite Arabic Qur'an fluently. In last four years I learned a lot even started to know the meaning of simple Arabic words and can recite the small easy verses fluently. I really don't have any other objectives in mind except to simply try to follow the simple clear commands of Allah (SWT).
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salam all .
Peace all. If the quran is a book containing 'irrefutable' science,and is guidance for all times/today,then where are the verses on tv,test tube babies,internet,nuclear power,cloning,automobiles,genetically modified food,transistor radios,ipods,mobile phones,vcrs,electricity,carbon dating,etc,etc...?
This is very conclusive,irrefutable,provable,tangible,easily available,obvious mainstream technology,and cannot all be denied...
Is the book incomplete,did god forget,or is there some other explanation...?
Peace all.there go 25 years of studying Koran down the gutter .
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Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.
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Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.
Oh, so it was the quran he studied for 25 years. But when I brought that up, he responded with
Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here... )
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well...It would seem enquirer has, gasp, lied? ???
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Salaam cavemandoctor
Your piece on - difference between the Quran being a source of Guidance and not containing every piece of factual information from beginning to eternity was superb, and I think this discussion should be paused until a satisfactory answer is given by those stating that the Quran has misinformation within it.
regards -
Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.
Oh, so it was the quran he studied for 25 years. But when I brought that up, he responded with
Peace cavemandoctor. One,i said i had studied ISLAM for 25 years,and two,instead of ad homineum,why dont you answer some of the questions posed here... )
Peace all. ps; I bet some people who follow hadith,question,and object to the 'quran only followers' knowledge of quran as well...It would seem enquirer has, gasp, lied? ???
How does one study and understand Islam?
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Rats are the first one to jump off the sinking ship. ;D
Smart move!
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Peace Arnoldyasin
Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peacethis is not working Arnolyasin, something is left
if the 'main message' can be learned from translations, why the objections to them and their interpretations being the majority of them traditional, the distorted meanings in them and who knows in the progressive ones, etc, besides, more important, some of those distorted meanings can belong to the 'main'. I mean, let's suppose you mean by 'main message' = believing in God + good deeds, but how to perform those good deeds and how has to be that belief, these can be among the distorted meanings, why you don't include them in the 'main'? it's like taking them as irrelevant or taht they can be disregard.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peacethis is not working Arnolyasin, something is left
if the 'main message' can be learned from translations, why the objections to them and their interpretations being the majority of them traditional, the distorted meanings in them and who knows in the progressive ones, etc, besides, more important, some of those distorted meanings can belong to the 'main'. I mean, let's suppose you mean by 'main message' = believing in God + good deeds, but how to perform those good deeds and how has to be that belief, these can be among the distorted meanings, why you don't include them in the 'main'? it's like taking them as irrelevant or taht they can be disregard.
Peace
What i didn't include, i think you filled it in yourself here. I never said what was part of the main message, you did that yourself. So the 'why didn't you include them part' is a bit strnage and out of place. As for the translations, you have to read ALL of them to see how the range of meanings can be, and then still keep in mind that 20% of the message is not translated correctly in all of those translations. For the rest i've been clear enough i believe. I'm not gonna explain all translations i don't agree with and which part is 'main' or not. If you really want my opinion on those, PM me.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
No, a lot of different things are translated or approached wrong. So i cannot pinpoint one subject or not. What i mean more is that you can get a global idea of the message of the Quran, i didn't mean 'main subjects'. And i never seperated anything from the 'main'. You made your own idea of what i meant with 'main', that is what i meant with you filled it in yourself. But we are getting off-topic here.
Peace
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Er enquirer?!? Where are you? Even your 'back-ups' didn't take this long to reach you as your replies to these queries are?