Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Ah I see he's back. I have to agree with CavemanDoctor here. This has gone far enough. Please respond to people's posts when they have taken the time out to address your concerns or do not start new topics rehashing the same.
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Peace arnoldyasin. Ok,you make a very valid point...I will try to respect the fact that you and others hold the quran in awe and reverence....
I dont know exactly what you could say to convince me the quran is 'divine' or absolute....more conclusive evidence?
I would also ask that you and others think about your comments to sunnis,shiahs,non-muslims etc... and references to idol-worhippers,kafirs etc,etc...
Peace all. ps; many are pretty critical of 19ers,sunnis,and many other religious view-points/ideologies as well....For consistency i hope you address the forum on these 'disrespectful' comments to others as well...Let me analyse this message. Do you really have any respect? Not at all. This message was a desperate attempt to get some support. You really have no respect at all in you. If you had any respect you would have created a forum of your own and start spreading your stupid message with people like you instead of coming here and keep creating topics against Qur'an.
I respect all the religions. I don't go to Hindu, Christians, Budhists forums posting insulting comments about their religions.
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Peace all. Pot,kettle,black... You dont want to answer my questions,fine....
Mr cavemandoctor....my 20 word reply was sufficient as a reply to your thesis....
Peace...Seems some of you 'cant handle the truth'..... sun -
I respect all the religions. I don't go to Hindu, Christians, Budhists forums posting insulting comments about their religions.
Bro his lines about us holding the quran in awe and reverence is trying to insinuate that we hold it as an idol, otherwise there is no need to write it like that. Personally, I would call respect as responding like oneway did, he had the integrity to respond to people in detail while he was here. Some people have all the time in the world to sit and create flaming topics but not respond when people do address them. -
Peace KGB.
I just wanted to say something here. I understand your frustration, trust me. But we (this includes me) must try hard not to attack enquirer. I'm not necessarily saying you are attacking him here but enquirer is a bit sensitive (not trying to attack you here, enquirer, just stating an observation) and if someone's tone is somewhat negative, enquirer will use that as an excuse to not respond.
Since I want a full response to my "thesis," I don't want to give enquirer an excuse to take another hiatus. Even though it is quite clear to me that he has some sort of agenda (disclaimer this is not an attack on you, enquirer, just stating an observation), we must still try to be as respectful and polite as possible. Again, I say this for two reasons
- It's obviously important to show respect to people you are discussing with.
- It is clear enquirer can't really respond to some of the arguments in this thread. If we attack him, he'll use the the attack as justification for not responding to the arguments. I want it to be readily apparent to all observers that it is actually the arguments he cannot respond to. I don't want them to think that he can respond to the argument but simply chooses not to cause of the "ad homineum" attacks on him.
Peace.
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Peace all. Pot,kettle,black... You dont want to answer my questions,fine....
Mr cavemandoctor....my 20 word reply was sufficient as a reply to your thesis....
Peace...Seems some of you 'cant handle the truth'..... sunI'm now convinced you're just a username someone made up as a joke. D
Silly me for entertaining your "ideas." sun
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Peace all. And i suppose those who are currently 'flaming'/cheerleading,dont say the christians,sunnis,shiahs,jews,hindus,etc,etc... are 'idolators',and always fully respect the respective religions of others ...? (never mind that some call even other 'fellow' 'quran onlys',and 19ers idolators as well. o)
peace all. ps; oh,and reading into someones posts that deeply has its drawbacks and limitations....Amateur psychoanalysis from some members... rotfl
Oh,and people respected one-way.... rotfl Was he regarded as a person of the book,or 'kafir/idolator by some on the forum...??? And why do i need respect from the members that 'cheerlead'.....? Where have i 'explicitly' called anyone an 'idolator' in recent posts...?
Mr cavemandoctor; look into your responses....have you answered my questions....? If not,then dont say what you dont do yourself...(612) ... ) Take it easy all. -
Mr cavemandoctor; look into your responses....have you answered my questions....?
Yeah, I did....a few pages back. Maybe you missed it.
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Oh,and people respected one-way.... rotfl Was he regarded as a person of the book,or 'kafir/idolator by some on the forum...??? And why do i need respect from the members that 'cheerlead'.....? Where have i 'explicitly' called anyone an 'idolator' in recent posts...?
You see, unlike you, I don't regard labelling someone as "kafir" as the only form of disrespect. I don't care about labels. I am here to discuss the Qur'an and learn from others. In that vein, you are one of the most disrespectful posters on the forum. Why do I say that? You throw out hollow, superficial "arguments" and dare us to respond to you (at the beginning of each thread, you do this, of course, in a very high-horse condescending manner). When we respond, you fail to respond, or respond with (literally) 20 words that do not even address the bulk of the argument. You then go back up on your high horse and use smilies and couch your posts in "happy" language as if to imply that you're above all this "pettiness."
You accuse us of being subjective. You accuse us not being able to handle the truth. Look in the mirror pal.
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Mr cavemandoctor; look into your responses....have you answered my questions....? If not,then dont say what you dont do yourself...(612) ... ) Take it easy all.
Mr enquirer, look into your responses. Have you answered his questions? No. Because, you said it yourself, a "20 word response is sufficient." Brother CavemanDoctor wrote out a two post response to each of your arguments. With all due respect, don't play this off as if he didn't answer. All of us here are still waiting for your response. Good luck.
Peace.
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Peace all. And i suppose those who are currently 'flaming'/cheerleading,dont say the christians,sunnis,shiahs,jews,hindus,etc,etc... are 'idolators',and always fully respect the respective religions of others ...? (never mind that some call even other 'fellow' 'quran onlys',and 19ers idolators as well. )
peace all. ps; oh,and reading into someones posts that deeply has its drawbacks and limitations....Amateur psychoanalysis from some members...
Oh,and people respected one-way.... Was he regarded as a person of the book,or 'kafir/idolator by some on the forum... And why do i need respect from the members that 'cheerlead'.....? Where have i 'explicitly' called anyone an 'idolator' in recent posts...?
Mr cavemandoctor; look into your responses....have you answered my questions....? If not,then dont say what you dont do yourself...(612) ... Take it easy all.
This is all once again a smokescreen. People respect people who have the integrity and intellectual honesty to respond to their points on a debate/discussion forum, but that's not on the cards for this user. A surfeit of emoticons and a smokescreen of slogans abound with no substance. Sad. This behaviour has to be addressed. Please respond to the posts with substance and a categorical rebuttal. -
The ad homineum,and unanswered questions still continue...
Unanswered question? That's your forte, isn't it?
The 'cheerleading' of incomplete answers still continue...
Wakas has shown in a moderated debate who really doesn't answer questions.
In response to your clutching at 'straws' of 25 years,.....25 years studying islam (which includes a study of quran.) but more specific,detailed study of quran in later years,which does not equal 25 years,unless totalled including the 'early' years of learning ...If you cant understand this,then thats not my problem....
I understand the math, I just don't understand how decades of study produced your grasp of al-quraan. Did you remember to open your eyes during those many years?
Its funny all those who try to discredit,and attack,cannot refute,or explain away all the inconsistencies in the 'plethora' of interpretations,and all the discrepancies of their 'theories',with reality.......
They did. The problem is, they thought they were explaining to a sentient human being capable of replying or at least acknowledging the reply. They were wrong.
As for the 'timelessness',well i know many of you liked this theory of modern technology not being mentioned in the quran because of the quran supposedly,being timeless...Well if it WAS timeless,then why does it mention events and technology which are not timeless???... That flat out demolishes,the 'timeless' theory,which many of you 'cheerlead'...
Rubbish. Al-quraan contains statements which are used to explain its concepts to the purpose of being guidance to humanity. In your 25 years of study, you can't understand this? When Al-quraan explains the evolution of the foetus, it connects it with Allah being al-haqq (22/6-7)
And finally,i would just say,when any of the more objective of you,actually understand,agree upon,and can explain clearly what the quran says about certain topics ( topics such as salat,hajj,allah,zakat,shura,right hand women,kaaba,muhammed,democracy,who believes and who doesnt,science,amputations,sticks into snakes,sea splitting into mountains,black magic,whippings,etc,etc...) ,and if you can ever establish/explain how a succesful 'political' or practical 'quran only' system can run, (before the day of judgement please...) then please post these explanations on the forum for everybodies benefit.....
.....I will be waiting for your replies....No wonder you took 25 years. You trust people on the internet for your understanding of AL-QURAAN? Wow, amazing...
My 25 years,taught me to recognise the limitations and 'false rhethoric' of the scriptural interpretations,as explained by the cheerleaders,and followers of illusions...
And my 25 MINUTES talking to you helped me see that you are a FAKE, sir. A person who has done zero reading and presumes to try to fool others into thinking he's a sincere scholar.
Peace all. ps; oh,and if anyone can even ATTEMPT to answer why no record of an 'established' quran only political state in the past 1400 years,then please do so...if not for me,do it for other people who would like to know....
In your 25 years of 'eyes closed' reading, you obviously have not read
- ar-risaala in which shafiee mentions the quranites
- the works about the mutazilites who took a very quranic approach to the quran
- the modern reformists who have critically examined as-sunnah.
- the seerah itself which shows evidence of 'quran-only' (umar saying 'enough for us is the book of Allah'
You didn't know all this in 25 years? Wow. Maybe you're still reading your alif ba ta? Let us know when you get to 'ya', will you?
We are all free to believe in what we deem correct....but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...
Indeed, and you've been feeding us hot air sandwiches. Put some meat into it or stop wasting time.
Take it easy people...take my post as 'constructive' criticism... sun group
I take your post for what it is..rubbish.
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NadyaThis is all once again a smokescreen. People respect people who have the integrity and intellectual honesty to respond to their points on a debate/discussion forum, but that's not on the cards for this user. A surfeit of emoticons and a smokescreen of slogans abound with no substance. Sad. This behaviour has to be addressed. Please respond to the posts with substance and a categorical rebuttal.
Addressed indeed. This person has come and insulted our deen and then refused to address our responses. This is fasad or mischief and I ask yourself and the mods to consider this. You all banned Albion, why not this guy?
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I'm actually disappointed in myself. I predicted this would happen (quote below) but still went along with enquirer's charade. I've learned my lesson.
Peace.
I'm in a dilemma here. On the one hand, I can very easily respond to your post. On the other hand, you'll either a) brush it off and go off on some random tangents or b) ignore it. I don't see what the point is. You may take that as an ad hominem attack; I call it "experience with enquirer." I'll respond, knowing full well it's probably pointless to do so.
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Well Caveman, at least a sincere reader will now see that those who attack al-quraan will eventually find themselves without argument. Sad that the opposition had to be a guy like Enquirer though. There are people out there who outclass him easily. Some actually can address your arguments.
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NadyaThis is all once again a smokescreen. People respect people who have the integrity and intellectual honesty to respond to their points on a debate/discussion forum, but that's not on the cards for this user. A surfeit of emoticons and a smokescreen of slogans abound with no substance. Sad. This behaviour has to be addressed. Please respond to the posts with substance and a categorical rebuttal.
Addressed indeed. This person has come and insulted our deen and then refused to address our responses. This is fasad or mischief and I ask yourself and the mods to consider this. You all banned Albion, why not this guy?
Ban will be useless. He will come back with new user id.
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What is MO?
Modus Operandi, meaning he'll come back with the same tired arguments, same tone, same hit-n-run tactics, etc.