a surah like it

unknownuser

Peace sugar. Magi is a man,not a woman...peace anyway.

unknownuser

then why have you not posted it?

Ok since you refuse to read though the thread. Definition of produce

To bring forth; yield a plant that produces pink flowers.
To create by physical or mental effort produce a tapestry; produce a poem.
To manufacture factories that produce cars and trucks.
To cause to occur or exist; give rise to chemicals that produce a noxious vapor when mixed.
To bring forth; exhibit reached into a pocket and produced a packet of matches; failed to produce an eyewitness to the crime.
To supervise and finance the making and public presentation of produce a stage play; produce a videotape.
Mathematics. To extend (an area or volume) or lengthen (a line).

Ask God that on J-day

possibilities could be to test the hypocrites and those who have doubts in there hearts?. to test those who are arrogant after they have attained faith? to keep mankind busy? to expose your true convictions? to make you realise how awesome god is?

The above are purely my guesses and I personally have no idea about the real reason God set the challenge?

yet you accept it illogic as it is. you are the one left to mere guessing, I am the one taking God up on his word. Now it would seem that there are no answer to it, Thus it doesnt mean a damn thing. And someone who thought he was real clever, put it in there, and its not God. What you fail to realise is that i fully, without question accept God. Im questioning scripture.

Magi i am telling you to post it not god.... if you don't post it you leave me and the other members with no choice but to believe that you are lying....

you fail to undertand what it is to produce something. It is more than mere peotry. Other translations says, "bring forth". i dont have to make it, gettit? i just have to bring it forth, produce it, wich i did.

BTW enquirer that tablet magi posted was not 'her surah' she got it from google ;D

How come everyone thinks that magi is a girls name?

peace

unknownuser

yet you accept it illogic as it is. you are the one left to mere guessing, I am the one taking God up on his word. Now it would seem that there are no answer to it, Thus it doesnt mean a damn thing. And someone who thought he was real clever, put it in there, and its not God. What you fail to realise is that i fully, without question accept God. Im questioning scripture.

I have questioned al-quran more then enough and i am satisfied with my conclusion that Quran is from God. Of course it takes some people more convincing then others. But claiming god's words can be imitated and expecting us to refute what you say will not get you any where.

Al-quran tells us that we cannot guide someone, not even our loved ones. I really can't understand why you believe that Quran is divine and still believe the challenge can be met confused

anyway i'm off to bed. Good night...

peace,
sugar

unknownuser

Peace all. I believe 'magi' is the name of old high priests and astrologers. I think they are mentioned in the bible...
Please guys,dont criticise me for not answering questions or diverting the topic,or not giving evidence... rotfl yay elektro ;D peace muscle handshake

unknownuser

i dont belive the book is divine. I belive that God is. The book is a reminder, and as such can contain err.

And enquirer is ofcourse right bravo

peace

unknownuser

yet you accept it illogic as it is. you are the one left to mere guessing, I am the one taking God up on his word. Now it would seem that there are no answer to it, Thus it doesnt mean a damn thing.

Actually i accidentally overlooked the real reason god challenged mankind since I was very tired last night?. the reason god challenged mankind are written in the verses Danish provided?.

Peace,
sugar

unknownuser

yet you accept it illogic as it is. you are the one left to mere guessing, I am the one taking God up on his word. Now it would seem that there are no answer to it, Thus it doesnt mean a damn thing.

Actually i accidentally overlooked the real reason god challenged mankind since I was very tired last night?. the reason god challenged mankind are written in the verses Danish provided?.

GOD challenging mankind (his own creation)?? elektro That's an illogical and bloated statement. None of those verses mention as such.

If man wants another man to produce something similar to what he/she has WRITTEN, then a junior highschooler can return that favour. Would you or anyone like to try it with me? Simply make up any sentence of your own and I will reciprocate with equal or similar weight. But if a man challenges another man to create a "live bird" or make an "event happen" or change the "rotation of earth", then that would not only be impossible but ludicrous to even mention, hence the difference between man-made and GOD-made. The Quran is a written material created by MEN, not GOD. Even an atheist knows the fundamental rules of nature/reality and its principles in which one lives, thus he "hears and obeys". The challenge (by MEN, not GOD) to produce one similar surah or ten similar surahs in its written form, has been met a gazillion times throughtout history, more so in the exact language the current Quran speaks about. Have you witnessed the challenge that man made in the Quran (http//suralikeit.com/)?

unknownuser

The Quran is a written material created by MEN, not GOD.

i disagree...

....what makes you believe that? confused

GOD challenging mankind (his own creation)?? elektro That's an illogical and bloated statement. None of those verses mention as such.

yes i was very tired this morning too.... i replied at work so i had to quickly type it before my boss caught me on the Internet....

Khalifa
If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.

Yusuf Ali
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.

Pickthal
And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave, then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.

"Progressive Muslims"
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.

God's usage of plural tense is explained in here...

It challenges those who don't believe it is from god... that's what i meant...

If it was created by man why the challenge?

BTW that site is blocked on my computer.... if you don't mind can you copy and paste the relevent part of it and PM it to me?

peace,
sugar

unknownuser

The Quran is a written material created by MEN, not GOD.

i disagree...

Why? What makes you think that books are written by other than MEN (humans)? ??? Explain?

If it was created by man why the challenge?

Did you just skim my pervious post or simply didn't understand or perhaps I am dealing with an illeterate kiddo? ???

unknownuser

yes i did skim it....infact the only bit i took notice of was the bit you said it was word of man... ignore

i believe muhammad wrote God's revelation with his own hand.... i'm sure you know the story...

peace,
sugar

unknownuser

If it was created by man why the challenge?

Did you just skim my pervious post or simply didn't understand or perhaps I am dealing with an illeterate kiddo? ???

spelling mistakes!

and it?s kinda amusing how you spelt "illiterate" wrong ;D

peace,
sugar

unknownuser

yes i did skim it....infact the only bit i took notice of was the bit you said it was word of man... ignore

i believe muhammad wrote God's revelation with his own hand.... i'm sure you know the story...

First you disagree that man wrote Quran and now you believe Muhammad wrote it? Was Muhammad a man or God? What a hoot?

Why? What makes you think that books are written by other than MEN (humans)? Explain?

unknownuser

you have misinterpreted me... i assumed you had come across those verses before...

53/4
Khalifa
It was divine inspiration.
Yusuf Ali
It is no less than inspiration sent down to him
Pickthal
It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,
Shakir
It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
Sher Ali
It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God.
"Progressive Muslims"
It was divine inspiration.

53/5 Dictated by the Most Powerful.
53/6 Possessor of all authority. From His highest height.
53/7 At the highest horizon.
53/8 He drew nearer by moving down.
53/9 Until He became as close as possible.
53/10 He then revealed to His servant what was to be revealed.

I?m not in the mood to go into an argument about whether Muhammad was illiterate or not?

God uses His own attributes to describe the Quran; He calls the Quran " `Azeem = Great", "Hakeem = Full of wisdom" (362), "Majid = "Glorious" (501), and "Karim = Honorable" (5677).

peace,
sugar

unknownuser

Peace all,

For the last time, if any deligent and dedicated Quranist can discuss and explain my concerns as set forth below, then please come forward. That's all there is to it. I am ready for a moderated debate and this is just the beginning. I am not here to play around with puppies like 'sugar' and 'openmind'.

The Quran challenges mankind to bring a (one) surah like it (223 and 103

Khalifa
If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.

Yusuf Ali
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.

Pickthal
And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave, then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.

"Progressive Muslims"
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.

Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."

Yusuf Ali
Or do they say, "He forged it"? say "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides God, if it be ye speak the truth!"

Pickthal
Or say they He hath invented it ? Say Then bring a surah like unto it, and call on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful.

"Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say he invented it? Say "Then bring a chapter like it, and call upon whoever you can besides God if you are truthful!"

Not satisfied, the Quran further challenges to bring yet another 10 surahs instead of one in precisely the same manner as in 1038

Khalifa
If they say, "He fabricated," tell them, "Then produce ten suras like these, fabricated, and invite whomever you can, other than GOD, if you are truthful."

Yusuf Ali
Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call whomsoever ye can, other than God!- If ye speak the truth!

Pickthal
Or they say He hath invented it. Say Then bring ten surahs], the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

"Progressive Muslims"
Or do they say "He invented it!" Say "Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."

If the challenge is not met, then we must acquiesce to the following without being punished
If they fail to meet your challenge, then know that this is revealed with GOD's knowledge, and that there is no god except He. Will you then submit?

But then, lo and behold, if the challenge is made, they are sent to hell; so much for the challenge in the first place
As for those who strive to challenge our revelations, they incur Hell.

And here is the challenge met for not one but all ten in Arabic (with English translation on some)
http//suralikeit.com/

Post any or all translations that exists today including the literal ones (whatever that means), heck bring your own invented one and see if anyone can patch-up the above 3 verses for me in a consistent, coherent and non-contradicting fashion.

If quran is GOD?s words as allegedly claimed, then please clarify the following concerns

Was the challenge of one surah not enough for GOD Al-mighty?
Doesn?t the challenge to bring 10 surahs or even one for that matter, reveal weakness in GOD?s words by itself in which it speaks?
Why the challenge in the first place? If GOD guides people whomsoever HE wills, then the question of challenge, whether met or not, shouldn?t arise? It seems a forced issue.
If challenge is not met, then one should believe in it without incurring hell, but when one tries to challenge, one goes straight to hell. Isn?t this called, ?double standards??
What is the reward for meeting the challenge and why?
Why the contradiction and inconsistency?
Once again, 8015 comes into play, as elaborated earlier.

NOTE ?people who tell OUTRIGHT LIES about al-quraan yet claim to believe in Al-quraan's divine origin.?

unknownuser

i dont belive the book is divine. I belive that God is. The book is a reminder, and as such can contain err.

And enquirer is ofcourse right bravo

Ditto. The Quran does contain abundance of errs and I shall prove it one by one by moderated debates, else children come barging in.

Peace all,

The entire Quran is a collection of narrations taken from various parchments and oral dictations by MEN who revamped in a disorderly fashion to form a book, further enhancing and manipulating by language, dialectal, chaptering, numbering and finally titling it. Even the sayings are not in its exact consistent manner in which it was revealed. On top of all this mish mash, people have become blinded to stretch and compare a man-made written book to the level of Almighty GOD (the creator of Heavens and Earth), as if to say that HE wrote it by HIS very own hands that came floating down for someone to have grabbed it out of thin air.

Concerning several factors governing its overall external and internal validity and historicity, I?ve exercised enough reason to believe that the Quran is NOT divine by any stretch of means. It is an old tablet, a historical one at best and there's much to talk about. But due to the melodramatic sensitivity and ?cloak and dagger? type pulverizing behavior by the ?believers? of alleged ?Allah?s Words?, I shall try to refrain from exposing myself in cataclysmic way. I hope to continue and discuss matters of concerns as we move along. With that said, I do not expect slandering, mudslinging, deviating and backbiting by opponents if they fail to understand me for whatever their personal reasons. I hope this is clear to all.

Here's some well defined words from "neo"
"That wouldn't make a very good international policy. And please, let's not get so melodramatic here. We both know what law of the land is; you may think of it as a non-sequitur but when it affects nearly 7 billion people I'd say it has a little bit of relevance. What exactly are you arguing for here anyway, that everyone in the world should be muslim and the only recognized legality should stem from the Quran? Are you serious? If so, how do you validate your claims against the mountain of other belief systems claiming the exact same thing?" I shall elaborabe on this further in my moderated debate.

mquran

For the last time, if any deligent and dedicated Quranist can discuss and explain my concerns as set forth below, then please come forward. That's all there is to it. I am ready for a moderated debate and this is just the beginning. I am not here to play around with puppies like 'sugar' and 'openmind'.

Puppies? Wow, how insulting. I'm just a puppy myself but I'd love to debate you Danish. Here is my proposed format

You put forward one point
I answer
I put forward one point.
You answer.

I await your response

unknownuser

Salaams Br. Danish,

awaiting to see them!

The Quran does contain abundance of errs

Thanks.

unknownuser

Puppies? Wow, how insulting. I'm just a puppy myself

Ah, how insulting, claiming to be a puppy yourself. I like that strategy and it was funny. rotfl

but I'd love to debate you Danish.

And I hate to debate with you for the reasons I already mentioned several times, which you still can't seem to grasp. However, tell you what, just to satisfy your perturbed mind, I'll come up with a proposed plan of moderated debate. I shall be back in a lil' while. Until then, "DON'T THINK".

unknownuser

OK, mquran, lets have a debate you have been longing for. Here are my conditions

If you can prove all my concerns as hogwash, I shall surrender, submit and seal my lips to never bring about such concerns on this forum again. If you, on the other hand, fail to provide substantial and relevant back-up on any one of my concerns, then you will admit openly on this forum that the Quran is NOT the Words of GOD and never to talk about being divine again.
Since you are the defender of Quran?s divinity, I shall make series of questions in stages (to make it easier - one at a time), which you shall answer, specific to troubled verses.
No extra baggage (meaning no personal attacks or out-of-subject matter) or quoting half sentences to mislead the other.
There will be no question upon question. If the question is not understood, then request clarity.
Once my first concern is aptly resolved, I?ll move onto another and so on.

Let me know when you?re ready?

mquran

I'm ready to begin once you answer the following concerns.

If you can prove all my concerns as hogwash, I shall surrender, submit and seal my lips to never bring about such concerns on this forum again. If you, on the other hand, fail to provide substantial and relevant back-up on any one of my concerns, then you will admit openly on this forum that the Quran is NOT the Words of GOD and never to talk about being divine again.

Who determines what is 'hogwash' and 'failure to provide substantial and relevant backup' underlined above? You? Pardon me but I don't trust you to determine it. I suggest getting the admin to do it.

Also, if you want me to 'admit openly', you should also be ready to 'admit openly' that your remarks were made due to your bigotry and not due to careful study.

Since you are the defender of Quran?s divinity, I shall make series of questions in stages (to make it easier - one at a time), which you shall answer, specific to troubled verses.

No problem there AS LONG AS you are willing to defend your tools of deconstruction. I will not accept any unproven assumptions at all and thus you have the obligation to answer my questions regarding your assumptions. Also, quoting from a site will entail that you know what the site says. Quoting 'sura like it' when you can't even read it is laughable, let alone unacceptable.

E.g. 'both western and islamic scholars' would qualify as an assumption. You can be sure I will thoroughly question this phrase. Don't expect me to take it because the word 'scholars' is in there.

No extra baggage (meaning no personal attacks or out-of-subject matter) or quoting half sentences to mislead the other.

How will you get by then?

Also, can we debate 'essence of nature' after this? I need some clarification on that

There will be no question upon question. If the question is not understood, then request clarity.
Once my first concern is aptly resolved, I?ll move onto another and so on.

The moderators will determine if a question has been addressed or not.