Re: "In Love with the Beloved"
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peace everybody
There's a fact that some muslims goes far with their thoughts, especially when it comes to "ahadith",
they follow it blindly, superficially and they forget the coran says.
But still, when talking about this praising issue of the prophet, we can't judge definitely, we can't say that
who says 'peace be upon him' is against the coran.And also where does it say you have to say 'peace be upon him' everytime you mention his name? Nowhere.....
peace arnold
this verse
3356
is translated like this
God and His Angels support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall support him, and yield completely.mquran talked about it, but still we can't confirm that the order "sallou alayhe" is just to follow him.
It doens't make sense, at least that's what i think.
And finally, we definitaly shouldn't throw accuses of "lost" and "kafir" like they do.787 "And if a group of you believes in what I have been sent with, and a group disbelieves, then wait until God judges between us. He is the best of judges."
Salam -
Salaams arnold,all,
6162 Say "My contact-method, and my offerings, and my life, and my death, are all (alone) to God the Lord of the worlds."
With all you guy?s who call salaat ?cntact method? what is this contact method?
From the above ayah
You are donating your death ? for a cause, Your life for a cause,your sacrifice for a cause ????so how is one offering in the contact method?
Salaams.
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In my view, this is referring to a living personality. We can no longer honour a nabiy who is dead because other ayaat point to the nabi performing certain functions (like 9/103) and a dead nabiy cannot do that.
That is your understanding. My understanding is different from yours. Do you want me to post it briefly so we can understand each other clearly?
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Peace KGB,
7157 Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honor him and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him they are the successful.
Peace be upon him is repect giving to a Prophet who was send as the mercy to all mandkind and all the worlds.
Please look at 512, it uses the same exact word honor (azartmouhum) and commands us to do this for all God`s messengers - which is consistent with the verses that tell us not to differentiate between the messengers...
Therefore, no one can claim that x or y messenger is better than the others and deserves more praise or special mention...They are all the same as far as we are concerned.
I agree with what MQ mentioned...That if people have not been exposed to the Scripture, yet they believe in the One God and do rightouesness, then they are considered Muslims since they have submitted to the Almighty (and that is all that matters).
With regards to those who are exposed to the Scripture and then reject it or refuse to judge with it, I agree with you KGB that they have placed themselves outside the possibility of submission unless they repent/change before death approaches them.
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Salaams arnold,all,
6162 Say "My contact-method, and my offerings, and my life, and my death, are all (alone) to God the Lord of the worlds."
With all you guy?s who call salaat ?cntact method? what is this contact method?
From the above ayah
You are donating your death ? for a cause, Your life for a cause,your sacrifice for a cause ????so how is one offering in the contact method?
Salaams.
I just pasted the freeminds translation when i was at work, i don't follow that translation really, here i believe salaat refers to following the Divine System.
And KGB, what has singing songs about Muhammed to do with following him...
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salam alykum
doesnt the verse in question based on the use of the words help him refer to the popel who was alive during that time? how can we help him if he is dead? or honor him ? i took it as we honor what he says as true the message and support him in his cause. it doesnt appear as a command like honor him all the days of his life and even after hes dead...
singing songs about muhammad sounds like church except substitute jesus for muahmmad
why must they focus on the messenger and not the message so much
maybe they should have more events how to figure out how to deal with there economics and human rights int he countries before singing to the prophet who is dead
there is so much things they can do for humanity then sit around and sing songs for muhammad
he was the messenger god didnt need him
if there wasnt a muhamamd there be another
god created him
sing to the one who created you verses the one who told you who created you
hmmm
where are these peoples minds?
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Salaam to all ?
i am new to this forum, at least i haven't so far done any posts. i've been reading through quite a few topics in the past weeks and have to say that i very much appreciate the open and disciplined manner in which discussions are lead in this forum. also i found many explanations useful for the development of my own view. especially as i only very recently stepped on the path of total submittance to the One. shouldn't go into detail at this place too far though. ..
clearly the one and only "beloved" is Allah the One. He is the only one to be praised and worshipped.
i get the point of being critical towards hadith traditions and the culture that developed out of them. what i so far can't really get accustomed to is judging without difference all sunnis and shias as idol wirshippers. i know people who try to live according to the example of the prophet muhammad and still are quite aware of the difference between honor and worship. they wouldn't allow to have celebrations for mawlid etc. this is probably nothing new for you and i somehow grasp the meaning of rejecting sunni/shia tradition and i can imagine that it's on the other hand difficult to always do justice to the small differentiations and also there are people idolising muhammad, but this i.m.o. doesn't hold true for every sunni/ shi'ite. this way of thinking seems to be going through some of the posts in this thread.there is the danger to make an idol out of a fixed belief system, and i found that being the case with quite some people who call themselves muslims (otherwise there wouldn't be that much pressure towards obeying rules - which for some people is the acctual meaning of being muslim submit to rules you cannot understand. and actually it's just feeding one's nafs...). but can it not be helpful to have the example of a person who fully submitted? in attuning to the prophet muhammad (or to any other prophet) one may feel this attitude coming through in one's own life. confused most sunnis i know are well aware that praise can only be due to Allah.
???
just dont't know singing songs in which the prophet is named ? automatically shirk? if at last all thanks is to the One alone ? i still do express thanks to my parents, friends etc ? maybe it's about consciousness i have to be aware to whom all thanks finally go to. i can thank somebody and connect this inwardly to God. i can thank muhammad and connect it inwardly to god. confusedcan the dogma of idolfreeness itself become an idol?
???
anyway, enough broadly talking about sth i still have to ponder upon. .. .peace to everyone
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Rafia know people who try to live according to the example of the prophet muhammad and still are quite aware of the difference between honor and worship. they wouldn't allow to have celebrations for mawlid etc. this is probably nothing new for you and i somehow grasp the meaning of rejecting sunni/shia tradition and i can imagine that it's on the other hand difficult to always do justice to the small differentiations and also there are people idolising muhammad, but this i.m.o. doesn't hold true for every sunni/ shi'ite. this way of thinking seems to be going through some of the posts in this thread.
I have no problem with people celebrating mawlid because I don't believe singing about someone is wrong. That's included in their manasik (22/67) which I cannot disrupt. What's bad is the interpretation of muhammad ibn abdullah to be more than what he was - a man of his time. His history is put on the same pedestal as al-quraan.
there is the danger to make an idol out of a fixed belief system, and i found that being the case with quite some people who call themselves muslims (otherwise there wouldn't be that much pressure towards obeying rules - which for some people is the acctual meaning of being muslim submit to rules you cannot understand. and actually it's just feeding one's nafs...). but can it not be helpful to have the example of a person who fully submitted? in attuning to the prophet muhammad (or to any other prophet) one may feel this attitude coming through in one's own life. most sunnis i know are well aware that praise can only be due to Allah.
I would answer your underlined question above as 'yes' but I would ask, how would you learn about this person who fully submitted? From the hadith? You will find the hadith to propose a different philosophy than that of al-quraan.
can the dogma of idolfreeness itself become an idol?
If you get your understanding from other than al-quraan, sure. If not, then why would it be? It's Allah's command.
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peace rafia and welcome to the forum
welcomei can thank somebody and connect this inwardly to God. i can thank muhammad and connect it inwardly to god. confused
i agree with u on this issue, i don't see any problem with thanking others, and of course u should thank GOD in ur prayers.
But the point is that some people goes far beyond that, talking about the prophet interceding for us.
How can the prophet intercede for them if they mention him more than GOD??
One should only pray for GOD Alone, and nobody else.
salam -
Peace all
I think we need to meet in the middle with this issue. From my standpoint, I think both sides are coming from different ayat.
For example, there is the message in the quran that we must obey and follow the messenger. There are many ayat but for simplicity's sake we can say 332 embodies this message. Also we must honor him, believe in him and follow the light of his message (7157).Yet in the same breath there is also the message in the quran that mentions that as believers we cannot/should not make a distinction between any messengers. Again for simplicity's sake, we can use aya 2285 as the prime example.
However, the trick is to not add emphasis on any one aya. They are all equally important. So are you right KGB in your determination to honor the prophet? Absolutely you're right as is confirmed by those ayat.
Are others right in their determination to cling to the message and not so much any particular person? Without a doubt, also right as confirmed by many ayat.That's why a middle ground is needed. We must honor our prophets but also never give them more power than that which God ordained for them (they are simply messengers of a letter from God to his creation).
You all raised really important points but one can never reach the complete picture without bringing them all together as one, as the quran did.
Peace
