1st time reader
-
I am a Bible-only Christian. I believe that Christian commentaries, individual church doctrines, the Jewish Talmud and rabbinical traditions, and the Muslim haddiths are of the same nature?man's. For the first time, I have been reading the Quran; the translation posted on this website and the ones posted at http//www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html. I have questions. I am assuming that I may post those questions here. I will try to remember to ask one question at a time. I will quote the translation posted here when I post my questions.
Please know that I intend no disrespect in my questions; I am sincere in my curiosity. Also know that it is not my intent to be argumentative if/when I disagree with points you may make. I am not interested in converting to the religion of Islam nor am I interested in attempting to convert any of you to Christianity. If you engage in discussion with me please remember that.
The first thing I noticed is 23. "?and uphold the contact-method?" What is the "contact-method"?
-
Kaj
23 Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
God is simply commanding us to believe in Unseen steadfast in prayers and do the charity work. Feed the poor work for the benifit of people.
The translation I posted is Yusuf Ali. I don't know which transaled you are reading. You have the right to follow the religion of your choice as God given right.
-
Peace,
The word that is translated as contact method is the arabic word salat. Salat means keeping contact/following closely. In the Quran it has different uses throughout the Quran, so i disagree with the Freeminds translation where you got this from, that you can't translate every time with contact, as this is only one of the meanings. In this verse it implies the duties of the Quran. So it refers to uphold the duties, following the duties of the Quran. You will see a lot of people differing about certain interpretations of words, as most are still influenced by the man-made hadith and word-meanings. So i can recommend you a translation which comes closer to the original, together with the freeminds translation.
http//www.beacon2005.com/QXP.pdf
This is in my eyes one of the best translations of the Quran together with the freeminds and Ahmed Ali.
Here is a little explenation on the word salat, that is given in the freeminds translation as contact-method.
Ahmed Ali on the meaning of Salat
"Salat as As-sala meant middle of the back, a horse that is second in a race, and as salia-wastala dependence, adherence, attachment. In the Quran salat acquired the conceptual meanings of devotion, adherence to God and His commands, fulfilling one?s duties and obligations as behoves an ?abd, creature, servant, devotee of God, as integral part of ?ubudiyat, servitude and devotion, made clear in 2441 which underlines that every creature in the heavens and the earth knows its salat, duties and obligations. It also means worship as in 855, piety as in 1187, and service of prayer, as in 2238; 443, 101-103; 11114, etc.
The Quran, thus, brings to the mind its real objects from words by invoking the images imbedded in the subconcious. For though the words remain the same, they often acquire new conceptual meanings and new dimensions lying hidden in their roots, which are brought out by the Quran, and now form part of its linguistic and intellectual dynamism. At the same time they become removed from the Jahiliya which was more of an attitude of mind and culture than a state of ignorance, as well as the later world as unfolded by the changing patterns of history, thought and language, so that anyone interpreting the Quran on the basis as used by Arabs today would only misled the readers of the Book."
Also to compare interpretations, here is a site, which put together most translations so you can check with every verse how other people read it. But remember most people follow the traditions and not the linguistics of classic arabic and how it is used inside the Quran. So you will find very different understandings.
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/
-
peace kaj,
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
The first thing I noticed is 23. "?and uphold the contact-method?" What is the "contact-method"?
I'm not surprised you are confused. The word "method" automatically makes one think "what method?".
The word translated as "contact-method" is the Arabic word "salat". This word has a core meaning of "go/turn towards (in a close/positive manner)".
To make things easier in English, I will use the word "bond" to mean "go/turn towards (in a close/positive manner)".
So, onto your question what is the "bond"?
If I give you some rules/guidance/wisdom, and say to you "uphold the bond" and nothing else what would you think that meant? What would you do? How would you go about that? How do you bond with something?
Please ponder on the above points.
The Quran is a book that aims to reflect your very soul/experience, thus your answers should feel natural/instinctive.
-
I have learned that Muhammed "wrote" the Quran in the 7th century. What I don't know is how the Quran is ordered. I mean is it written in chronological order? In the order the surahs were given? Are related surahs grouped together? )
-
peace kaj,
Firstly, it would be helpful for us to know your thoughts on the answers we give. I am referring to your "contact-method" question.
Secondly, the verses/chapters are arranged in a set order, not in chronological order. There is speculation about why it has been done like this. For example, some have argued for a coherent structure throughout The Quran, e.g. the book "Coherence in Quran" by Mustansir Mir.
Wakas
-
Peace Kaj,
And welcome to the forum. Being from a christian background means that it will be easier for you to have an open mind when reading the Quran. Please, get your own understanding of the quran and even on the contact method and share it with us. Most of us here are from a traditionalist background and we come with a big dose of bias.
Regards
-
Wakas, I apologize for the length of time that has passed between my original question and this post. Life happens outside the internet, ) , and I have been too busy with serious family matters to be here.
In my own words, I believe what you are all saying is that the contact-method simply means to stay in contact with God. To not forget Him nor ignore His existence. And to show that you remember Him and have a sober awareness of Who He is by praying, studying and doing good works.
The Bible says the same thing in many places and in many ways. The book of 2 Timothy puts it this way...that we are to retain the standard of the sound words which we have heard, to guard the treasure which has been entrusted to us and to commit it to faithful men who will be able to teach it also. To be diligent to present ourselves to God as workmen who don't need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.
What kind of set order?
Does anyone know the order in which the surahs were originally given?
-
Peace,
There are several records about the order of revelation. But these are probably concocted. ANd for us they don't matter, as we have to use the whole Quran, and not read them in a specific order, so it doesn't matter if you start at chapter 2 or 67, if you want to understand the Quran on a certain subject, you have to compare other verses on those subjects to get the picture.
-
Peace Kaj
I would agree with all that you mentioned in the bible as being equal to that of quranic 'salat'.
As for the order, many attest that it was sent down in a different order than that which is in the present text. the first commandment onto Mohamed was actually 'iqra' = Read (investigate/explore/gain knowledge) is what many claim to be the first.
Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
There is no chronological order in the quran as in a story-line of begining, middle, end. In my opinion, it is written around lessons and moral examples. So for example, when God wants to relay to us the consequences of arrogance and oppression it is there where He mention's the story of Moses in Egypt. It also follows a meditative rhythm where you read certain phrases in between other bits of information over and over again, in my opinion again.
Peace all
P.S. The question of order some have only relates to the chapter orders and not the verse order in each chapter. -
n my own words, I believe what you are all saying is that the contact-method simply means to stay in contact with God. To not forget Him nor ignore His existence. And to show that you remember Him and have a sober awareness of Who He is by praying, studying and doing good works.
peace kaj,
I think meditation is a good way to "connect" with God. God is inside us, we need to look inside ourselves to reach the state of mind we call Islam (peace). -
By set order, I mean the order they are currently found.
If you do a search on the internet, you will find the traditional account of the order of revelation, e.g
http//www.missionislam.com/quran/revealationorder.htmOne could probably get a good jist of the revelation order by studying the content of the chapters, but I dont have a reference to such a work. Its probably been done though.
-
2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking God's grace, and to save their souls, is like the example of a garden on a high ground which is subjected to a heavy rain, and because of that it produces double its crop! And if no heavy rain comes, then light rain is enough. And God is Seer over all you do.
What is "God's grace"?
-
Peace Kaj
The phrase in Arabic you're referring to is "ebteghaa mardaat Allah". I would say the translation of that phrase is closest in English to "seeking to please God" as Yusuf Ali's translation states or my loose translation of "seeking to gain acceptance from God".
I wouldn't say it's "grace" because grace in Arabic is "rahma" (please refer to the opening line of the first chapter - In the name of God the Most Gracious the Most Merciful .. which on a side note is the line we say before starting to read the book in any chapter).
So I would infer from that verse that our intentions when doing good is important. The act of doing a good deed to someone other than ourselves strengthens our connection to God and also strengthens our souls, as the verse states - but the trick is to do it for the right reasons. If we're doing something for someone in order to please God AND to "better our souls" (as opposed to just doing it for bragging rights, score points with others who we want to impress, etc) then God will shower our works with His Blessings, so that even a little goes a long way.
I hope that helped.
Peace all
-
to research the meaning of "rahman", this article is decent
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/rahman.htm"My father, I fear that a retribution will inflict you from Al-Rahman and that you will become an ally to the devil"
You sure it means "gracious"?
-
Peace Wakas,
Thanks for posting the article. I have some issues with it though. The author is coming with the assumption that the God cannot possibly be Almighty, Most Powerful and yet still be the Most Gracious and Most Merciful. As stated in the article several times in different ways, here's one of them
Do these ayat describe a benevolent benefactor (as in "beneficent" or a generous host (as in "gracious", ?graciously? accommodating His ?guests? or the recipients of His largesse, or a kind-hearted ruler forgiving His subjects, or do they describe NONE but THE ALMIGHTY???
Perhaps it is difficult for the human mind to fathom all the attributes of God altogether, but that doesn't mean it can't exist. It is simply our own limitations.
As for the author's notion that although the dictionary supplies the meaning of gracious for the root word Ra Ha Ma (and yes there is a root word for it), the word doesn't fit the nature of God and therefore the definition doesn't apply to the word - I couldn't disagree more. Not only is this a clear misunderstanding of the magnificence of God, with all His attributes that make a believer cry, but also a distortion of Arabic which would go against any logic. If certain words don't equal their definitions then we really couldn't read anything properly, could we.
But I do appreciate the article, it made me stop and check myself, which is always a good thing.
Peace all
-
peace
although the dictionary supplies the meaning of gracious for the root word Ra Ha Ma (and yes there is a root word for it), the word doesn't fit the nature of God and therefore the definition doesn't apply to the word
...wow.... so are we being selective in choosing WHEN to use the root method? (sounds like biased)
i certainly find God to be the Most Gracious. That's definitely one of His attributes(from my own experience). What people forget when they say things like 'well how can God be the most gracious and almighty at the same time?!'
Because God is the Most fair as well.
-
Peace Imran K.,
i certainly find God to be the Most Gracious. That's definitely one of His attributes(from my own experience). What people forget when they say things like 'well how can God be the most gracious and almighty at the same time?!'
Because God is the Most fair as well.
Excellent point, bro! There is no doubt in my mind as well that God in fact showers all of us with Grace and Mercy. Praise be to God.
God Bless you all
Peace
