18:18
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salaamun alaikum
i am new here, and first off want to say how much i have enjoyed reading this forum for some time now.
I have a question about chapter 18 (the cave), verse 18.
I have a particular reason for asking this, its because of the hadith which states that an angel wont come into the house of someone, if there is a dog there.
Now this verse, translated by Yusuf Ali, is"Thou wouldst have deemed them awake, whilst they were asleep, and We turned them on their right and on their left sides their dog stretching forth his two fore-legs on the threshold if thou hadst come up on to them, thou wouldst have certainly turned back from them in flight, and wouldst certainly have been filled with terror of them"
but in some translations i have seen....it says that the dog was "in their midst"
now only having the ability to read some arabic, i often compare verses, so i can find similar words, and therefore figure out which word means what. But i cannot do that here, so need the help of someone who speaks arabic.
Where, in
"Watahsabuhum ayqathan wahum ruqoodun wanuqallibuhum thata alyameeni wathata alshshimali wakalbuhum basitun thiraAAayhi bialwaseedi lawi ittalaAAta AAalayhim lawallayta minhum firaran walamulita minhum ruAAban"
that....is the word for "threshold" or "midst" ?
which is the correct translation?
thank you in advance for any help you could give me
aisha peace
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Peace,
The hadith about dogs are fabricated sayings which were old city-laws. In the Quran dogs are only commented as positive. So this idea of dogs scaring away your angels is nonsense. In the Quran it says that angels follow you everywhere and are always recording your deeds. Please be carefull with these old superstitions, as this is not Islam. So the verses that say angels are ALWAYS with you already dis-proves this hadith.
4380 Or do they think that We do not hear their secrets and private counsel? Yes indeed; and Our messengers are with them, recording everything.
How can they record everything as a simple dog chases them away?
5016 And We have created man and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
5017 When the two receivers meet on the right and on the left.
5018 He does not utter a word except with having a constant recorder.They record constantly, so they cannot be stopped being near you just because of a dog or toilet. Nonsense....
1311 Present with him and behind him are angels, they guard him by God's command. God is not to change what is in a people until they change what is within themselves. And if God wanted to harm a people, then there is no turning Him back, nor will they have any protector against Him.
See also 661, 8210 and 864 these all show that there are angels constantly around you everytime and everywhere. So the hadith about angels not entering toilets or don't come near dogs are superstitions and lies.
As for the verse, i believe it says threshold/entrance, which is logical as the dog had a function as guard and warner if people were coming
And you think/suppose them (to be) awake/alert, and they are asleep/lying down, and We turn them/turn them around that of the right (side), and that of the left (side), and their dog (is) spreading/extending its two arms (paws) at the cave/doorstep/mountain , if you saw/looked on/over them you would have turned away from them escaping/fleeing/running away, and you would have been filled (by) terror/fright from them.
I hope this helps....
Peace
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salaamun alaikum
thank you for replying. However, i think maybe you misunderstood me. I do not believe that hadith are meant to be taken as guides to our religion. The reason i was asking, was that i want a dog (as do my 4 kids) and i want to discuss this first with my ex (sunni) husband. Now, i already know that he has no argument....ie
me i'm getting a dog
him its haram
me says who?
him hadith
me why dont you have a beard?...or do you perhaps pick and choose which hadith are to be followed?(lol)
so i KNOW that there is no such decree from God, in fact, i believe that God mentioned the dog in that verse deliberately.
I just wondered what the actual translation was....."threshold" or "in their midst"Anyway, this whole "dogs are dirty" thing is nonsense.
What if a person had 10 cats and they weren't houstrained?
What if the people were dirty?But thank you anyway for your reply -)
aisha -
Peace,
My reply was neutral as i already suspected you had a different reason to ask. So if you read carefully you see i say it in general, and not specificaly to you. And the verses about the angels are enough proof for your ex to 'shut up' as they clearly show they are always with you in every situation.D
If he starts nagging, ask him this If dogs really scares away angels, it means that this verse is nonsense as these people only have to bring in some dogs
4380 Or do they think that We do not hear their secrets and private counsel? Yes indeed; and Our messengers are with them, recording everything.
Enjoy your dog...... bravo
Peace and love.....
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peace aisha,
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
now only having the ability to read some arabic, i often compare verses, so i can find similar words, and therefore figure out which word means what.
I like your style! Dont worry, its gets easier with time. I started out doing the above too. The following site might help www.studyquran.org
I find, when you've narrowed it down to a few possible words, use www.openburhan.com or a phonetic search to find the specific one you want.Here is what I have, with some clarification to help
wa (and) kalbuhum (their dog) basitun (stretching) thiraAAayhi (its two forelegs) bi (with/in) al (the) waseedi (enclosure/entrance)
the root of "kalbu" is Kaf-Lam-Ba, see PRL for every occurrence of KLB/dog in 'al quran' (the reading), pay particular attention to 54 which provides evidence for a total rejection of the traditional Muslim myth about dogs.*
the root of "basitun" is Ba-Siin-Tay, see PRL which allows you to read every occurrence of the specific word "basitun" in 'the reading'.
the root of "thiraAAayhi" is Thal-Ra-Ayn, see PRL, the specific word also occurs in 6932.
the root of "waseedi" is Waw-Sawd-Dal, see PRL for possible meanings.
*I just thought, could it be "the father of cats" was anti-dog, hence the anti-dog hadiths? Just a thought.
If you wish to study 'the reading' word-for-word, I strongly recommend the following books
Noble Quran word for word
http//www.dar-us-salam.com/store/q11.htmlDictionary of Quran
http//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963206796/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-2856847-2025461?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=283155Regards,
Wakas -
Peace,
My reply was neutral as i already suspected you had a different reason to ask. So if you read carefully you see i say it in general, and not specificaly to you. And the verses about the angels are enough proof for your ex to 'shut up' as they clearly show they are always with you in every situation.D
If he starts nagging, ask him this If dogs really scares away angels, it means that this verse is nonsense as these people only have to bring in some dogs
4380 Or do they think that We do not hear their secrets and private counsel? Yes indeed; and Our messengers are with them, recording everything.
Enjoy your dog...... bravo
Peace and love.....
-)...thanks. The verses about the angels are excellent. I hadnt thought of going from that angle. See?....i was asking God to help me out on this...and then this happens!....lol
Seriously, that is a great argument. Thank you so much
aisha -
peace aisha,
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
thank you -)
I like your style! Dont worry, its gets easier with time. I started out doing the above too. The following site might help www.studyquran.org
I find, when you've narrowed it down to a few possible words, use www.openburhan.com or a phonetic search to find the specific one you want.Here is what I have, with some clarification to help
wa (and) kalbuhum (their dog) basitun (stretching) thiraAAayhi (its two forelegs) bi (with/in) al (the) waseedi (enclosure/entrance)
the root of "kalbu" is Kaf-Lam-Ba, see PRL for every occurrence of KLB/dog in 'al quran' (the reading), pay particular attention to 54 which provides evidence for a total rejection of the traditional Muslim myth about dogs.*
the root of "basitun" is Ba-Siin-Tay, see PRL which allows you to read every occurrence of the specific word "basitun" in 'the reading'.
the root of "thiraAAayhi" is Thal-Ra-Ayn, see PRL, the specific word also occurs in 6932.
the root of "waseedi" is Waw-Sawd-Dal, see PRL for possible meanings.
thanks for that wakas. I already use openburhan....its a really good site. Still takes me ages though. Like you said, it will get easier with time.
*I just thought, could it be "the father of cats" was anti-dog, hence the anti-dog hadiths? Just a thought.
lol...is that Abu Huraira?....does his name really mean that?...i thought that was too funny when i read it...how coincidental about the anti-dog hadith.
If you wish to study 'the reading' word-for-word, I strongly recommend the following books
Noble Quran word for word
http//www.dar-us-salam.com/store/q11.htmlDictionary of Quran
http//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963206796/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-2856847-2025461?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=283155thank you for that. Thats exactly the kind of thing i was looking for yay (sorry, just had to try that smiley out -))
peace
aisha
