How is salat, kaaba and qiblah associated to each other?
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Peace to you all,
I have decided to take my own quest in trying to get through the different understandings that I have encountered in this salat issue.
I have not partaken in the physical salat in sometime. I'm still trying to fully understand. I choose not to act, not out of rebellion, but out of caution.
And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyes, and mind, all these you are responsible for. 1736
I have read many of topics on this forum. And the most perplexing is the issue of salat. Some say it is physical, some say it is mental or it seem to be an act of attitude towards God. Which all can be true.
My mind is taking me in deep right now and I am pondering and trying to reflect all the time. I see that the issue of salat is somewhat confusing for some of us who came from one fold (sect) or another. We are use to doing what we were taught by the books that we have read. Does it matter? Is it an exact formula that needs to be carefully measured and calculated? I've been thinking...and lets not even get into the language delema. This can be all so frustrating, so I have decided to start my quest by the process of elemination.
I have abandoned hadith for a little over 3 years now. I have always wanted to know what is the association between salat and the kaaba as the qiblah. I am turtle, turtle when it come to reading the arabic, but I can get through it with time. I have not seen qiblah for salat is to face the kaaba anywhere in the arabic. Or one definitely refering one to the other as a definite link. I don't know if I missed something.
With that I have a definite problem. I have read many of post where some of the members associate salat and qiblah. From reading such post one would assume that you are to bow and prostrate in the direction of the "Kaaba".
I see no connection between any of these unless I missed something. If so, supply the verses so that I may reflect.
Many of you may have been here and done that and came to your own conclusions. I truly believe it is time to establish mine.
I can't remeber who it was that made this particular observation, after reading it I had to take it a step further.This was a verse that was mentioned.
But those of them who are firm in knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and those who hold the salat-assembly/ link/ bond/ contact-method and contributes towards the betterment, and those who believe in God and the last days; to these We will give them their reward greatly. 4162
Could it be that we will not fully understand salat until we aquire knowledge along with belief. We we are told to uphold the salat , God The Almight addresses us as a lot of the time by," Oh you who believe".
I know we say that we are muslims, but I also know that a believer is better than or should say above in ranks compare to a muslim. So, could it be until we truly believe, strive for knowledge and be patient, that we will not fully understand salat.
I can't draw any conclusions whatsoever from the question I posted as the topic of this room. I've tried, it's not making any sense to me.
Why would God command us to bow in the direction of a structure that has been idolized, in order to show devotion to him? Does God the Almighty not say," Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and uphold the contact-method, and do not be of those who set up partners."3031
I wish for this not to be the case for myself...
Then generations came after them who lost the contact-method, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.1959
I pray to find the right method, God willing.
Why are some people still calling salat prayer? Is not pray a separate function that can be included in salat?
"My Lord, let me uphold the contact-method, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, accept my prayer." 1440Is salat not made for the focus on God, may He be glorified?
"I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and uphold the contact-method for My remembrance." 2014Recite what is inspired to thou of the Scripture, and uphold the contact-method; for the contact-method prohibits evil and vice, and the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do. 2945
Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it, as well as a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that venture out in the land seeking from God's bounty, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And uphold the contact-method and contribute towards betterment and give God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek God's forgiveness, for God is Forgiving, Merciful. 7320
This will be my starting point.
Peace,
shirley
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peace shriley
Could it be that we will not fully understand salat until we aquire knowledge along with belief. We we are told to uphold the salat , God The Almight addresses us as a lot of the time by," Oh you who believe".
You are absolutely right, The salat, fasting, etc... is only for the believers( mumins) All that is required of the submitters (muslims) is The belief of Onen-ness of God, Righteous works, and obviously no idol-worship of any sort. For further information on the believers vs. submitters Go here http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/mumin.htm
I see no connection between any of these unless I missed something. If so, supply the verses so that I may reflect.
Check verses 2144, 2149 and 2150. Remember the purpose of the Qiblah is the unification of all believers. They are all facing the same way...
I know we say that we are muslims, but I also know that a believer is better than or should say above in ranks compare to a muslim. So, could it be until we truly believe, strive for knowledge and be patient, that we will not fully understand salat.
You are absolutely right.
Why would God command us to bow in the direction of a structure that has been idolized, in order to show devotion to him?
Remember this didn't happen till at least over a 100 years after Muhamnmad's death. And like i said the purpose is the unification of all believers and submitters. Remember salat is not for God (meaning he doesn't benefit), it is TO God, but it is for our own benefit.
Remember God wants us all the believers/submitters to unite
614 God loves those who fight in His cause as one column; they are like bricks in a wall.
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you (Muhammad), and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
For further correspondance check out these 2 articles on Salaat
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/quran_on_salat.htm
http//www.islaam.faithweb.com/salaat.html
I pray to find the right method, God willing.
I pray you will too, God willing.
God bless
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Peace,
The masjid al-haram is in my eyes mostly approached wrong. Masjid means place of prostration and this can be anywhere. It can refer to physical prostration but also mental prostration to the Laws of God. Al-haram means restricted. So the masjid al-haram i believe refers to a land where the Quran is the source of law. So a place where the rules of the Quran(restriction) are listenened(prostration) to. Qibla means point of focus. So the verses tells us the focus our minds on the lands of where the Quran rules. This can even by our own mind, as this is also the place where the Quran must rule. These verses has a lot of depht to it.
As religions as Christianity and Jewism focus on personal salvation as also did the pagan arabs, now the muslims were joined in unifying goal, and that was to create a land where the Quran ruled. This is why the Jews and Christians were wonderring why they changed their focus from personal salvation to common goal. That is why they will not follow our focus, as they are busy with personal salvation. Also it refers to that the pagan arabs suddenly went from polytheism to monotheism, again changing their focus(qibla). And there are probably more ways to interpretate these verses. The Quran's message goes deep....
So i don't believe it directly refers to the kaaba, as this means base/foundation. So the verse about the kaaba refers more, that Abraham laid the first bricks of the Deen that Muhammed continued. So the base/foundation(kaaba) was Abraham's House(Deen).
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Peace all
Dear arnold
in your post above you state that kabaa is ankles - foundation. This is the sens aidid safar gave to the word and it als is a sens that makes sens to me...
But i also read on this forum - think it was mquran who said it - that aidid twisted the meaning of kaaba in order to come to the meaning of "ankles" - for me to be understood as "basis".
My arabic is not good enough to verify. And as its in the threads subject i would like some more info, if you have the time.
lk
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Peace,
No elke, i don't believe it is ankle, the word itself in its root has inclination towards meaning base/foundation. I didn't even thought of aidid till you mentioned it....
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Peace to you all,
Thank you for all your post. Like I said, I am not convinced at the moment of some thing being related. As we non- arab people struggle to understand the language and grammer it is hard to comprehend sometimes. My fight/ struggle is not to be in defiance of God The Almighty, it is to try and focus and to truly want to know the truth
to be guided.This is a journey no doubt. I reflect on how when I was ready to embrace Islam (sunni) everything was so rushed. Now I believe that can not be the case.Some of us are given a life time to refect and verify . I do not deny the signs of God, be He Glorified, I know there are some parts I do not understand. The first thing "muslims" ask you is, "How do you pray. I take myself aside somewhere and call upon God the Hearer, the Knower. I glorify Him and I seek his help and guidance. I am human and struggle. So for now I will continue to pray and read the Quran and maybe in my course I will come to understanding. God willing.
May God the Magnificent guide us all,
peace,
shirley
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peace shirley
you have the right attitude, just be patient and figure it out for yourself. Don't listen to anybody's interpretation but decide on your own. You are blessed to have a wonderful translation on this very site (http//www.free-minds.org/quran/). You don't need to be an arabic scholar to understand the Quran. Ask God for signs, He will show them to you (If he so wills) Patience is the key though
20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Quran before its inspiration is completed to you, and Say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."
So for now I will continue to pray and read the Quran and maybe in my course I will come to understanding
God willing you will.
May God the Magnificent guide us all,
May he )
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This is taken from my article at www.progod.org
Ka'bun is the masculine form of the word ka'batun, better known as ka'bah. To understand the feminine form we have to understand a few things about Cl. Arabic. Firstly, that the feminine form of the word ka'bun (12) carries the same meanings as the masculine form. In the case where it carries distinct meanings it is because it has been feminized to differentiate a very similar concept from some already established concept associated with the masculine form of the word. In addition to that, if you make the masculine form of a word feminine it gives strength to this word. For instance, 'Khaleefatun' is stronger than 'khaleefun', 'abbatee' stronger than 'abbee', and 'aarifatun,' stronger than 'aarifun.' (13)
The meanings of Ka'bun listed in Wehr's dictionary (14) are the following
Knot, knob, node (of cane); joint, articulation, ankles, anklebone; heel (of foot or shoe) ferule; die; cube; high rank, fame, glory, honor.
Everything that the male of the form fa'lun (being the representation of the Cl. Arabic form in question, universally applied to all roots) can mean, so can the female (fa'latun or modernly and colloquially fa'lah), with the added meaning of emphasis that the feminization of the word gives; where it is clear that there could be intensification. The meaning that the dictionary gives for Ka'bah, as with Ka'bun, includes 'cube.' So then why cannot Ka'bah also share the meanings of high rank, glory and honor, taking into account the possible intensification it can mean? This would render it truly high rank, true/great glory and true/great honor. The author proposes that these meanings are the meanings that are meant in the Koran by Ka'bah. This word happens to also mean a cubic structure. But who's to say that this cubic structure is the famous one in the Hijaz area of Arabia, in a city popularly known as Mecca/Makkah? Why not some other cubic structure in another area of Arabia, or the world for that matter? The Koran doesn't say anything about any cubic structure being in any Arabia or in any city called Mecca/Makkah.
From reading the Koran we have no reason to believe that we should even be visiting the city of Mecca, Arabia other than in visiting some holy sanctuary, being a house of God if we can travel that distance. Otherwise the Koran does not speak of any Mecca/Makkah in regard to any pilgrimage. Nor has the Cl. Arabic meaning of Makkah (1, Notes) even been looked at as what the Koran may really mean when it uses this word. With the above in mind, the author proposes that 594's 'hadyan baalighul-ka'bati' means " A present that is truly honorable." (15)
It is also proposed here that 597's 'Ja'alallaahul-ka'bata albaital-haraama qiyaaman linaasi washah-ral haraama wal-hadya wal-qalaa'ida' means 'God has put in true honor and glory the holy houses, as upstanding things for the benefit of people. As well as the holy months with directions, including the awarding of people with marks of honor." (16)
As far as qiblah it means a focal-point or a 'center'. And what is commonly translated as 'turn your face towards' in Cl. Arabic can mean 'Head towards'.
The Quran also uses the word qiblah where Moses is told to tell his people to make their houses their qiblahs. Showing that it has nothing to do with praying in a certain direction and has everything to do with patronizing our communal centers, God's houses, i.e. the sanctuaries.
Godbless,
Anwar